Do you do the bare minimum at work?

smash wrote: »

I work in the private sector. I've never worked anywhere that the staff are unionised. Unions create laziness and an air of false self entitlement... As you've demonstrated.

I spent months working with cleaners in Canary Wharf and the City of London who were getting paid the minimum wage for doing a hard job during unsociable hours; most of them were West Africans and Latin Americans who would put in a 50 hour week but still ended up below the poverty line. All the while they were being indirectly employed by some of the richest organisations on the planet. On top of this they also faced horrendous working conditions with bullying supervisors, gang masters who extorted their wages even further and they rarely got any holiday or sick pay.

After they unionised and successfully organised huge swathes of them got the London Living Wage and a scrap of dignity at work. And fair play to them.

If we followed your attitude above workers would still be doing 80 hour weeks and children would still be up chimneys coughing their lungs up.

MadDog76 wrote: »

And that's the solution right there!!!

Companies want their employees to go the extra mile ......... for a slap on the back ....... if that!!!

Employees want more money before they work harder .......... never gonna happen!!!

Work should equal pay, problem solved.

You work to get paid. Work harder and be more productive and when you ask for it you'll get paid more and move up the ladder.

Don't work hard and don't become more productive and you won't get more. In fact, you should just be sacked. It's simple.

FTA69 wrote: »

If we followed your attitude above workers would still be doing 80 hour weeks and children would still be up chimneys coughing their lungs up.

Did you purposely not call me Hitler or was it a mistake?

fleet_admiral

No I work my bollox off and carry most of the others who couldnt give a shyte

blackcard

Ally Dick wrote: »

OP are you describing a job in the public service ?

My experience, having worked in both sectors, is that there are slightly more wasters in the public sector but not that much of a difference

smash wrote: »

Did you purposely not call me Hitler or was it a mistake?

I never said you were Hitler but when you come out wth extremist rubbish like "abolish unions" then expect extremist examples about the reality of what working life was like before them.

super_furry

smash wrote: »

Did you purposely not call me Hitler or was it a mistake?

The rarely seen self-Godwin! It's a bold move Cotton, let's see if it pays off.

FTA69 wrote: »

I never said you were Hitler but when you come out wth extremist rubbish like "abolish unions" then expect extremist examples about the reality of what working life was like before them.

They're not needed. All they do is cause disruption. Schools, airlines, public transport, civil service... All unionised and always being disruptive and refusing to do their feckin jobs.

smash wrote: »

They're not needed. All they do is cause disruption. Schools, airlines, public transport, civil service... All unionised and always being disruptive and refusing to do their feckin jobs.

No...they are meant to look out for the low paid...but only in ireland they don't

tomwaterford wrote: »

No...they are meant to look out for the low paid...but only in ireland they don't

In Ireland they look out for well paid yet underperforming public service workers.

smash wrote: »

In Ireland they look out for well paid yet underperforming public service workers.

While throwing the younger members under the bus for pay and conditions (I seen people who are lifelong union members leave over this)

tomwaterford wrote: »

While throwing the younger members under the bus for pay and conditions (I seen people who are lifelong union members leave over this)

But the country needs them, because God forbid Paddy is asked to drive a train with an extra carriage on it....

smash wrote: »

They're not needed. All they do is cause disruption. Schools, airlines, public transport, civil service... All unionised and always being disruptive and refusing to do their feckin jobs.

I just gave you a clear example above where they were needed; you had thousands of workers getting exploited to the hilt and the situation only changed when they organised themselves to fight for better conditions. Similarly these were people who embodied the spirit of 'hard work', getting up at 3am to take two night buses across London to break their holes; working for the likes of Morgan Stanley but still getting p*ssed on. And they aren't the only examples I can give about workers getting mistreated either, I could sit here all day typing similar stories.

The reality is that things such as paid holiday, minimum wage, sick pay, rights at work etc are all there because of the trade union movement and workers acting collectively to demand dignity and fair treatment; they weren't doled out at the whim of benevolent employers as you seem to think they were.

It's all well and good saying "unions aren't needed" when chances are you've benefited in some shape or form from their accomplishments.

everlast75

Worked for others before and each and every one of them paid me bugger all despite working my ass off.

Now I employ others, i ensure they are well paid and treated well, but there is still a small contingent who still take the p*ss.

I guess it depends on the type of person you are, the work ethic you have and the rest is up to management...

smash wrote: »

But the country needs them, because God forbid Paddy is asked to drive a train with an extra carriage on it....

No....but I'd gladly see the likes of dunnes go under for the sh1te they pull in terms of treating staff etc....I seen what they did last time people were striking and I'd not be inclined to shop there again

FTA69 wrote: »

I just gave you a clear example above where they were needed;

in a different country.

FTA69 wrote: »

It's all well and good saying "unions aren't needed" when chances are you've benefited in some shape or form from their accomplishments.

Maybe from something they did over half a century ago which helped introduce employment laws. These days, no.

AppleBottle

I would like to think that I work hard for the money I earn. My bosses seem to think I'm pretty hard working too.

Wanderer2010

Smash do you really think an ununionised workplace is better and that workers and bosses operate in a non bullying and non exploitative environment ?

To Elland Back

I agreed a wage with my boss. In return for that I work hard and to the best of my ability. I am punctual and I don't pull sickies. I have the type of job where you sometimes have to 'walk away' for 10 minutes and talk footy with a colleague or have a cuppa, but the work still has to be done at the end of the day.

I'm not a kid that will only do what he has to because the boss is watching. I have personal pride in my work ethic

foxy farmer

smash wrote: »

In Ireland they look out for well paid yet underperforming public service workers.

After the IFA debacle id ask the question- What do the unions do with all the members contributions and how much are the top brass in the various unions earning?

imitation

The only thing I can add before this descends into public sector/unionisation madness is that in my experience from looking at other people, is sometimes the fella doing 3 hours a day, does more in those 3 hours than some could do it 16 hours of sweating hard. It can be knowing what technical thing to do, what button to push, what people to go to get a thing done, but odds are they might provide something invaluable that makes them worthwhile. And then some of them are just useless and got in off the back of some mate or family member, or they know where the bodies are buried

MadDog76

smash wrote: »

You work to get paid. Work harder and be more productive and when you ask for it you'll get paid more and move up the ladder.

Don't work hard and don't become more productive and you won't get more. In fact, you should just be sacked. It's simple.

Your logic is flawed, you've been brain-washed .......... an individual is contracted to do a certain amount of work during a certain amount of hours, no more or less.

Why do you feel it's ok for a Company to ask more from their employees without giving anything back?
"We might/maybe you give you more money in the future if you work longer hours now" just doesn't cut it, like it or not.

Imagine if you went into a shop to buy a €1 bar of chocolate and handed over 80 cent with a "I'm gonna eat the chocolate first, then if I like it I'll give you the other 20 cent some time in the future ........ I might even give you more than 20 cent if I really like it!" ......... the chocolate would be snatched out of your hand and you'd be kicked out the door!

That's the logic you're using .......... it's a contract, ie. €1 for the bar of chocolate, x amount of €'s for a 40 hour week ........ no more, no less.

smash wrote: »

in a different country.

Maybe from something they did over half a century ago which helped introduce employment laws. These days, no.

Yeah England mate, hardly an example plucked from the depths of Inner Mongolia is it? And if you think there aren't thousands of migrant workers, or agricultural vegetable pickers or hotel workers or nurses getting treated like sh*t at work in Ireland today then you're completely f*cking codding yourself.

Workers have what we have because it was hard fought for, if you think that as a result of that all employers are now ultra-fair minded in their approach you are very wrong indeed.

Mister Vain

I do what is required. Admittedly some days do be quite and I try to look busy but I'd have days where I'd be run off my feet too. lazy people annoy me though. I used to work with a guy in a warehouse who would sit in the forklift all day and wouldn't budge from the fecking thing. He'd sooner drive up to get canteen door and ask someone to get him a sandwich rather than get out and walk.

MadDog76 wrote: »

Your logic is flawed, you've been brain-washed .......... an individual is contracted to do a certain amount of work during a certain amount of hours, no more or less.

Why do you feel it's ok for a Company to ask more from their employees without giving anything back?
"We might/maybe you give you more money in the future if you work longer hours now" just doesn't cut it, like it or not.

Imagine if you went into a shop to buy a €1 bar of chocolate and handed over 80 cent with a "I'm gonna eat the chocolate first, then if I like it I'll give you the other 20 cent some time in the future ........ I might even give you more than 20 cent if I really like it!" ......... the chocolate would be snatched out of your hand and you'd be kicked out the door!

That's the logic you're using .......... it's a contract, ie. €1 for the bar of chocolate, x amount of €'s for a 40 hour week ........ no more, no less.

Any contract I've ever signed with an employer has always stated that on special occasions where required you may be asked to perform duties above your role, or work hours past your contract. It's a standard clause, and I always sign. I've yet to be asked to work late, but if I need to stay on 30 mins or so I will and I get my job done to get a product live or ready to go live. It's how the company gets paid, and it's how you get your bonus.

MadDog76

tomwaterford wrote: »

No....but I'd gladly see the likes of dunnes go under for the sh1te they pull in terms of treating staff etc....I seen what they did last time people were striking and I'd not be inclined to shop there again

Imagine how bad it'd be (again) if there were no Unions/Labour Laws at all ....... some posters on here need to educate themselves about what they're talking about before they go pounding the keyboard.

MadDog76 wrote: »

Imagine how bad it'd be (again) if there were no Unions/Labour Laws at all ....... some posters on here need to educate themselves about what they're talking about before they go pounding the keyboard.

Unions and labour laws are not the same thing. If there were no unions there'd still be employment laws!

Windorah

I work a minimum of three to four hours unpaid everyday. All meetings I conduct outside "working hours", usually 2/3 hours a week with psychologists, speech therapists, nurses, parents etc. I get absolutely no extra pay, no chance of a promotion and no job security. And then I come onto boards and read threads like this and threads bashing teachers... Where are all the extremely dedicated public sector bashers now?!?

smash wrote: »

Unions and labour laws are not the same thing. If there were no unions there'd still be employment laws!

The employment laws as it stands are being abused by employers particularly one large Irish supermarket