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Child Item

Minimum Alcohol pricing to be signed into Law

Timistry

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1022/482077-public-health-alcohol-bill/

Multiple excise increases in the last few Budgets and now this... Ireland is already one of the most expensive countries in Europe for alcohol. Like many, I can appreciate the negative impacts that it has on society but these nanny state measures just will not work

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Melendez

This post has been deleted.

Help!!!!

The people who the government want to target will still get the same quota of alcohol, whether it be giving their children less food, doing more burglaries or mugging more old people. It will only affect the people who want a few quite beers at home.
The reason pubs don't have huge crowds going is because they charge stupid prices for non alcoholic drinks. Why would a designated driver want to spend the same amount as the people getting drunk when they could all stay at home & pay less. Putting the price up in supermarkets will still not get people going back to the pubs.
In the end it will be beer runs to the UK & Europe, poitin making a huge comeback, fake spirits being sold ( probably more people going to ER ) more crime burglaries/muggings & more children going hungry

Brendan Bendar

Technocentral wrote: »

This will surely help craft beer sales, no one is going to spend 2 bills a can on that muck they sell in Lidl like Excelsior anymore surely, best to buy something decent with your two notes, not saying I agree with minimum pricing just wondering if it will up the quality of what people are drinking?

Quality my brown butt, these craft beers are exactly what they are- rip offs.

Now I wouldn't buy Exelsior, but neither would I pay over 3 Euro + for these craft beers, there are PLENTY of decent quality beers in the in between range.

Let's get a bit real here.

BeerNut

Technocentral wrote: »

just wondering if it will up the quality of what people are drinking?

Don't see why it would. The discount supermarkets sell good beer alongside the cheap lagers. Price isn't the reason punters buy more of the latter. The quality scale in your head doesn't exist in theirs. Besides, if your premium product is suddenly priced the same as discount muck, you're immediately going to raise your prices, aren't you?

Technocentral

This will surely help craft beer sales, no one is going to spend 2 bills a can on that muck they sell in Lidl like Excelsior anymore surely, best to buy something decent with your two notes, not saying I agree with minimum pricing just wondering if it will up the quality of what people are drinking?

rubadub

Geuze wrote: »

If you want to be serious in your opposition to this proposal, then be serious and precise in your language.

This is very important, since even if people are totally anti-alcohol they should object to it for this reason. The majority of people I mention this to did not know it, and were shocked, some thinking I was joking as it seems so ridiculous -and it is ridiculous. I have not seen it brought up in the media yet.

Everyone involved is keeping quiet about it, as the retailers involved will be raking it in which offsets any predicted drop in sales.

I have seen no list of pros & cons anywhere. I have seen lists of associations & groups who apparently are supporting it. I can only imagine some anti-alcohol campaigner group contacting these places and asking
"so are you in support of having more alcoholics"
"what?! NO"
"ah, so can I put you down on this list of groups supporting the minimum pricing"
"ehhh, ok."

Its a knee jerk reaction, just like the subject of mandatory cycling helmets where the average layperson cannot see the numerous negative effects.

Counterfeit sales will increase a lot, so I have no doubt the minimum pricing will appear to have reduced drinking figures, as they will not be on the record.

coconnellz

It amazing how they the gov can justify not getting involved in the factory beef price fixing crisis because it distorts the markets but on the other hand can just implament controls the price of alcohol for the retailers its crazy

Geuze

Qualitymark wrote: »

Anyway. This tax. It's a pure tax, designed to hit the poorest hardest like all flat taxes. How odd that they have hit this for a second time - remember the €1 on every bottle of wine a few months ago.

If you want to be serious in your opposition to this proposal, then be serious and precise in your language.

It is not a tax - let's be clear on that.

It is a price control.

Qualitymark

Melendez wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No. It's a factor that makes the assault worse.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

oblivious

Qualitymark wrote: »

Anyway. This tax. It's a pure tax, designed to hit the poorest hardest like all flat taxes. How odd that they have hit this for a second time - remember the €1 on every bottle of wine a few months ago.

At least a true tax would add revenue to the state, this minimum price goes directly to the retailer !

dr.fuzzenstein

That's the problem though, its not a tax, the state will get very little out of it. In a way we might have respected a tax more, but not by much. But AFAIK it failed for cigarettes, so why would it work with alcohol. I don't drink much, but if this is slapped down in europe, I might have a second tipple of sherry at Christmas.

Hillybilly4

Qualitymark wrote: »

It's nothing to do with stopping people drinking too much alcohol. The way to do that would be to arrest drunk drivers; to regard alcohol as an added crime in assaults, rapes, etc (rather than regarding it as a mitigating factor as now - "Your honour, my client had been drinking at the time and is deeply sorry for his actions")

Qualitymark

Anyway. This tax. It's a pure tax, designed to hit the poorest hardest like all flat taxes. How odd that they have hit this for a second time - remember the €1 on every bottle of wine a few months ago.

It's nothing to do with stopping people drinking too much alcohol. The way to do that would be to arrest drunk drivers; to regard alcohol as an added crime in assaults, rapes, etc (rather than regarding it as a mitigating factor as now - "Your honour, my client had been drinking at the time and is deeply sorry for his actions"); to give an example by making the Dáil a dry zone… well, you know. I won't be holding my breath.

L1011

Qualitymark wrote: »

Kind of mad to have bars in their workplace while lecturing the rest of us about drinking, though…

Not the only workplace with one - Irish Farm Centre where the IFA, FBD etc are has one, SIPTU have one.

My employer tolerates drinking on duty also once your not driving and you need to have very few if wearing anything branded. We've no bar - barely a kitchen even!

On the continent beer in the canteen wouldn't be uncommon

Qualitymark

Kind of mad to have bars in their workplace while lecturing the rest of us about drinking, though…

Geuze

Johngoose wrote: »

As long as the price of a pint in the Dail Bar remains at around the 2.50 mark, who gives a sh1t about the commoners who frequent dastardly off- licenses. Keep the pub owners happy buy a few votes.

The Dail bar is not subsidised, and the beer is regular prices.

4.30 per pint in 2013.

http://www.thejournal.ie/dail-bar-guinness-cheaper-than-buswells-or-shelbourne-1071316-Sep2013/

oblivious

Swiftly wrote: »

I received a warning for trolling for above comment??? No sense of humour

You received my reason, pass it up the line if you have an issue with it please. Pm me or other mods if you want to discuss. No further discussion in this thread.

Swiftly

I received a warning for trolling for above comment??? No sense of humour

Swiftly

My poor hangovers

BuilderPlumber

This whole minimum alcohol pricing debate throws up many of the issues that are wrong in Ireland. Certain products and services are way too expensive in Ireland and/or in parts of Ireland than in any other place. For example, the cost of alcohol in pubs in Dublin is much more expensive than in rural counties. The price of any product is equal to that product plus the expenses of all the baggage that goes with it like insurance, fees, etc.

Now, back to this minimum pricing law: who in debates on this issue cry the loudest? The vintners. As for the doctors, they come out with the same cliched arguments about it being bad for our health (ironically, it does not stop the very same doctors from drinking 4 or 5 bottles of wine over the weekend).

Another myth is that Ireland drinks much more than its European counterparts. The truth about it is that Germans, Czechs, French, British and Swedes drink as much and maybe more (Bavaria in South Germany drink much more as do people in the rich Western part of the Czech Republic around Prague).

Now, I admit that problem drinking is a serious issue but not every drinker is a problem drinker and I don't feel I should pay for what others do. That would be like all drinkers being sent to prison for drinking alcohol because someone kills someone because of drink (this is the Saudi Arabian solution: ban drink, join the dots in scripture and add 2 and 2 and come up with 8 to give it a religious significance and then fool the people). It does not work.

I know well why this is being proposed. It is not to punish people. It is not to protect people's health. It is to protect the vintners. The pubs have been hit hard the last few years but they often have only themselves to blame. Some charge way too much and offer little in return. Others have useless Country & Irish bands who have little talent but who know well how to charge and then fleece their few loyal customers to pay for this rubbish.

Rarely do we hear calls for these to put down their exhorbitant prices. Rarely do we hear government coming out and talking about the cost of living and doing business in Ireland in general. Our pricing systems are based on one person ripping off another and the other then passing the costs onto someone else to rip them off and eventually the final consumer pays for the whole lot. The politicians are lobbied by groups like the vintners who lobby for policies that protect the status quo.

oblivious

@L1011 and @ThisRegard ok you both have made you respective point’s on cheap alcohol and Its staring to spiral the drain.

rubadub

Jayop wrote: »

And if you can buy the car anywhere else in Europe for a euro then it still is expensive.

exactly, quite telling when there is not a single other poster that agrees with this "simple mathematical operator" logic.

Gerry T wrote: »

Is this a silly suggestion. A off lisc sells a pack of crisps for 6 euro and you get a free bottle of wine? Or is that not allowed

Think its already covered now, there was discussion before about starting up private clubs. I was saying that some barbers give out free beer while you wait, maybe this is illegal though, and the just turn a blind eye.

I expect other loopholes, I am sure wetherspoons will have a few involving food. There is also the ability for offies to sell mixtures of beers, so the combined prices could equal the min price. You might get mixers with your vodka, or tokens on bottles or something.

L1011

ThisRegard wrote: »

I repeatedly said you can get cheap alcohol in off sales. I appreciate such a subtle difference is lost on some people like yourself.

There's no subtlety here - you've repeatedly said alcohol is not expensive in Ireland, just as you did there, again.

ThisRegard wrote: »

Apologies, but he purposely has to be missing the point that you can get cheap alcohol in Ireland without assuming that I therefore mean that alcohol is cheap in Ireland.

I'll leave it there.

ahem

ThisRegard wrote: »

Look, it's more expensive, it's not expensive.

You can't remember what you wrote two pages ago and you seem to think that saying the same thing different ways changes what you meant. Its probably just as well that you do leave...

You are now trying to backtrack away, but you have repeatedly claimed alcohol is not expensive in Ireland - and you still are, just trying to twist out of the argument.

You haven't explained anything as to why you think that either, despite repeatedly saying you had.

Jayop

ThisRegard wrote: »

Maybe they need to ban alcohol altogether because your brain cells have certainly taken a hit if you can't differentiate between expensive, and more expensive, when you've had a very simplistic example spoon fed to you.

Primary school kids can understand this concept before they even make their confirmation ffs.

And you also need to rewatch Rainman again as you don't seem to grasp his issue either.

Something can only be judged as expensive when you compare it to something similar for sale. Eg, compared to other jurisdictions.

If more expensive drink caused less drink related problems then Ireland would have none.

Johngoose

As long as the price of a pint in the Dail Bar remains at around the 2.50 mark, who gives a sh1t about the commoners who frequent dastardly off- licenses. Keep the pub owners happy buy a few votes.

ThisRegard

mightybashful wrote: »

Aww not again

Apologies, but he purposely has to be missing the point that you can get cheap alcohol in Ireland without assuming that I therefore mean that alcohol is cheap in Ireland.

I'll leave it there.

ThisRegard

L1011 wrote: »

You have repeatedly claimed Ireland is not expensive for off-sales alcohol. If you can't remember saying this I advise you to read your own posts again.

You haven't justified why you think Ireland is not expensive - you haven't given any reasons ('its not because I say its not' is not a reason) despite your claim to.

I don't really see the point in continuing with someone who thinks stating something makes it so, can't remember their own posts and starts attacking someones ability to read when they are having severe problems actually writing cohesive text in the first place.

I repeatedly said you can get cheap alcohol in off sales. I appreciate such a subtle difference is lost on some people like yourself.

ThisRegard

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Would you drive a car you bought for €100? Where did you see that car? You might want to get that checked out in Motors, I think someone wants to sell you a pup. Understandable, since you seem to have a grasp of money like Rainman.

Maybe they need to ban alcohol altogether because your brain cells have certainly taken a hit if you can't differentiate between expensive, and more expensive, when you've had a very simplistic example spoon fed to you.

Primary school kids can understand this concept before they even make their confirmation ffs.

And you also need to rewatch Rainman again as you don't seem to grasp his issue either.

Mr. teddywinkles

Does this mean if its a min price on drink and a so called benefit to health of the nation. (jesus they are so caring :rolleyes:) that they can increase it in every budget.