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The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

oppenheimer1

Saw this on RTE today, the VFI are calling for a minimum price on alcohol and to prevent below cost selling. They say the supermarkets are destroying them by luring customers in with cheap alcohol in order to sell them groceries. Without a minimum price they say they will be put out of business.

To be honest, my sympathy for them is in short supply. They were price gougers during the boom and the truth has come home to roost for them. They then tried to form a cartel in order to keep prices up. To be honest I wouldn't be too disappointed if the pub trade kicked the bucket although I would feel for the staff.

So would you be disappointed if the Pub trade shrank dramatically? Do we need a minimum price?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0103/alcohol.html

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Comments

Letree

tayto lover wrote: »

It will decrease drinking only for the people who drink socially.
The people who need to cut down or stop will not no matter the price.

I agree, that will result in an overall reduction.

VinLieger

Letree wrote: »

I think it will reduce consumption. Anyway it certainly won't lead to an increase in consumption.

No it will lead to an increase in black market activity, over the border sales and small off licences going out of business

LuckyLloyd

Letree wrote: »

How so?

Because it WON'T reduce consumption

VinLieger

Letree wrote: »

I agree, that will result in an overall reduction.

Yes but not where its supposedly aimed at which is problem drinkers, those of us who are responsible are the ones who it will hit. And I seriously doubt it will reduce it to the levels they claim.

Actually it won't hit me as im just gonna continue home brewing my own wine and start doing beer as well, with the amount of money I save ill be able to buy spirits every so often and still be spending less than I would buying from off licenses

Letree

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Because it WON'T reduce consumption

I think it will and you think it won't. We won't know for sure until about 2017.

VinLieger

Letree wrote: »

I think it will and you think it won't. We won't know for sure until about 2017.

All evidence points to you being wrong

Letree

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes but not where its supposedly aimed at which is problem drinkers, those of us who are responsible are the ones who it will hit. And I seriously doubt it will reduce it to the levels they claim.

Problem drinkers drink everything they have so with more expensive alcohol they will run out of money quicker and therefore drink less.

Letree

VinLieger wrote: »

All evidence points to you being wrong

What evidence

tayto lover

Letree wrote: »

I agree, that will result in an overall reduction.

So the responsible drinkers will be punished?

Spanish Eyes

Just deport all problem drinkers to Spain, France and maybe Germany.

Free movement and all that. And they don't have any binge drinking or alcoholic mayhem there.

See how they change when they come back. I'm sure it is all sweetness and light in every other country. So that's a plan.

dan1895

Letree wrote: »

Problem drinkers drink everything they have so with more expensive alcohol they will run out of money quicker and therefore drink less.

Thats not how it works. When they run out of money they will either:
A. Rob money or alcohol to get their fix
B. Buy cheap counterfeit booze which will probably poison them or
C. Distill their own which will probably poison them.

VinLieger

Letree wrote: »

What evidence

Alcohol prices have risen steadily to be the 3rd most expensive in europe after consecutive budgets over the last 20-30 years and we have not seen any reduction in alcohol consumption or alcohol related social and health issues, in fact we have only seen increases in everything. Therefore prices do not affect consumption in this specific case.

lertsnim

Letree wrote: »

How so?

It won't decrease consumption by those who abuse it. All it will do is cost people more.

It will lead to more people buying alcohol from Northern Ireland or some going back to the day trip to Wales.

Lights On

Letree wrote: »

I think it will reduce consumption. Anyway it certainly won't lead to an increase in consumption.

If anything it will lead to an increase in people moving away from beer onto spirits so they get more bang for the buck. Why spend a ton on cans for pre drinks when you can split a litre of Vodka with a few people for the same price.

Harika

Ireland has already one of the highest alcohol prices in europe, like in austria you pay for a bad can of beer 49 cent and alcohol consumption per head is very equal. On the other hand a good can of beer costs 1.10. To make non alcoholic options more attractive, why not reduce the tax on non alcoholic drinks? Or set a minimum price for each beer to promote responsible drinking, so a good beer has the same price as piss beer. Same with wine, in France you get good wine starting at 10 Euro, the same quality here costs 20. No wonder people drink the cheap crap.

MadYaker

I'd be interested to know how many TDs are in the pub trade or have family members who own pubs. The is the government bending to the will of the influential vintners association once again and has nothing to do with reducing consumption. If that was truly the aim they'd be going about it differently.

Ogham

Flex wrote: »

Ive read two sets of figures, one saying the price will be 10c per gram of alcohol, and another saying a 4.3% 500ml can of beer will be €1.95, which doesnt make sense. a 500ml can of 4.3% beer has 21.5ml of alcohol, which is roughly 17 grams of alcohol, so at 10c a gram it would mean a minimum price of €1.68.

This is considerably more than the €1.95 mentioned above. It would mean a 500ml can of 4.3% beer (think Guiness, Heineken, etc. are around that) would cost €2.14, and a slab would be €51.55. Could someone confirm that? Being very fond of Jameson myself Im going to miss being able to get it on promotions for sub €28

Some more realistic figures here (based on 10c per gram not €1 per UK unit.
http://www.moneyguideireland.com/proposed-minimum-pricing-of-alcohol.html
More like €22 for a bottle of Jameson ..
Our "units" are bigger than the UK units. They only have 8g per unit - we have 10.

dr.fuzzenstein

Letree wrote: »

Problem drinkers drink everything they have so with more expensive alcohol they will run out of money quicker and therefore drink less.

No, problem drinkers want a drink no matter what. And they will get it, no matter what.
Look, the US tried total prohibition, i.e. alcohol was outlawed the same way cocaine and heroin is (and we all know how incredibly well the war on drugs is going). Anyone caught with alcohol risked imprisonment. The government poisoned all industrial alcohol with strychnine (people died, but still drank it), there were dedicated police units whose sole task it was to eradicate alcohol. The hooch that was available was not much better. And as with everything illegal, prices were sky-high.
Do you know what happened?
Alcohol consumption INCREASED!

FYP:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/images/pa-157b.gif

Price and availability argument pretty much out the window and debunked as bullsh*t.
Problem drinkers will forgo food, not just for themselves, but their wife and children. They will (like junkies do), steal, rob and tell any lie they can to get their hands on some.
So, debunked argument looking plain ridiculous now.
But why debunk an argument when you can demolish it.
I can get a 6 pack and a bottle of vodka in Aldi in Germany for UNDER €15. And not just a shade, but I think it's more like €12 for the lot.
http://www.supermarktcheck.de/product/53696-czerwi-aldi-sued-wodka
http://www.supermarktcheck.de/product/82461-karlskrone-weissbier-alkoholfrei

Do we see drunken Germans crawling on their hands and knees around Aldi in Deutschland, fighting, pissing and puking? We do not.
You can get beer for next to nothing 24/7. Price/Availability argument shot in the head.
It's pure bullsh*t and we have a word for people who come up with sh*t like that in Germany. Spiegelwichser.

What we can look forward to is increased A&E attendance due to dodgy hooch, a resurgence in the poocheen trade, increased gang and IRA activity, increase in smuggling, violent crime and to top it all off: decreased tax take, as people go over the border or to France, brew their own or buy counterfeit alcohol from criminals. And drink white spirit and aftershave.
Nothing good will come of this. Anyone who says different is a moron or a liar.

gaius c

What a pack of ****. Just in time for xmas too.

the_syco

Letree wrote: »

I think it will reduce consumption. Anyway it certainly won't lead to an increase in consumption.

The children of the alcohols will just have less food.

Letree wrote: »

Problem drinkers drink everything they have so with more expensive alcohol they will run out of money quicker and therefore drink less.

Running out of money is only good if they didn't have kids. Look at how many people are buying slabs on mickey money day in the poorer areas of Dublin, and you'll see that the only people who will suffer will be the kids.

Letree wrote: »

I don't drink and am happy to see the min pricing coming in. It means less of my tax money going towards dealing with law and order issues and medical issues associated with increased national drinking. Whatever way people look at it increased pricing will reduce the amount of alcohol consumed.

They'll drink home made booze, and more will be hospitalized. Long term, this will get slightly better in the very short term, and then nosedive when all the illegal drink floods the streets.

Oh, and dealers don't care who they'll be selling to, so expect more drunken teenagers.

lertsnim

gaius c wrote: »

What a pack of ****. Just in time for xmas too.

It's not going to be for a few months, if ever.

Lights On

gaius c wrote: »

What a pack of ****. Just in time for xmas too.

Next summer was when Leo said he was hoping it would come into play afaik. Right in time for Euro 16!

Help!!!!

Lights On wrote: »

Next summer was when Leo said he was hoping it would come into play afaik. Right in time for Euro 16!

Hopefully these clowns wont be in government by then

jack presley

Lights On wrote: »

Next summer was when Leo said he was hoping it would come into play afaik. Right in time for Euro 16!

There'll probably be legal challenges along the way which will delay it, even if the Scottish one gets through.

Letree

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

No, problem drinkers want a drink no matter what. And they will get it, no matter what.
Look, the US tried total prohibition, i.e. alcohol was outlawed the same way cocaine and heroin is (and we all know how incredibly well the war on drugs is going). Anyone caught with alcohol risked imprisonment. The government poisoned all industrial alcohol with strychnine (people died, but still drank it), there were dedicated police units whose sole task it was to eradicate alcohol. The hooch that was available was not much better. And as with everything illegal, prices were sky-high.
Do you know what happened?
Alcohol consumption INCREASED!

FYP:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/images/pa-157b.gif

Price and availability argument pretty much out the window and debunked as bullsh*t.
Problem drinkers will forgo food, not just for themselves, but their wife and children. They will (like junkies do), steal, rob and tell any lie they can to get their hands on some.
So, debunked argument looking plain ridiculous now.
But why debunk an argument when you can demolish it.
I can get a 6 pack and a bottle of vodka in Aldi in Germany for UNDER €15. And not just a shade, but I think it's more like €12 for the lot.
http://www.supermarktcheck.de/product/53696-czerwi-aldi-sued-wodka
http://www.supermarktcheck.de/product/82461-karlskrone-weissbier-alkoholfrei

Do we see drunken Germans crawling on their hands and knees around Aldi in Deutschland, fighting, pissing and puking? We do not.
You can get beer for next to nothing 24/7. Price/Availability argument shot in the head.
It's pure bullsh*t and we have a word for people who come up with sh*t like that in Germany. Spiegelwichser.

What we can look forward to is increased A&E attendance due to dodgy hooch, a resurgence in the poocheen trade, increased gang and IRA activity, increase in smuggling, violent crime and to top it all off: decreased tax take, as people go over the border or to France, brew their own or buy counterfeit alcohol from criminals. And drink white spirit and aftershave.
Nothing good will come of this. Anyone who says different is a moron or a liar.

We'll see in 2017

Nate--IRL--

Letree wrote: »

We'll see in 2017

Unlikely - the EU knows it is bullshít and will block it well before then.

Nate

Mr. teddywinkles

Reminds me of the carbon tax. Introduced to solve the emission problems yet theres no green alternative and made no difference. More cars on the road than ever. How does this solve social problems associated with drink. Pure remedial train of thought. Up the price that'll solve it.

listermint

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Hasn't this been proven not to lower consumption rates? People just forego other things to get their regular amount of booze in.

I imagine this will impact particularly on people at the lower end of the income scale. It's a funny little country though isn't it, the solution to every problem is to tax the hell out of it and more and more government interference in business and peoples personal lives.

I'm getting very tired of being here tbh.

Amen.

And I'm not even religious.

Proper amateurs at all levels of governance. We were treated by rte to an insight of the levels of idiocy we have presiding over powerful positions here

It's fiercely obvious for all his years studying vradkar is a tool. All of the statistics fly in the face of everything he is trying to do.

Utter out moron

Letree

If it has no effect in consumption then why are the alcohol companies against it. They must feel threatened by it. The Scottish Whiskey Association fight very hard against the introduction in Scotland.

listermint

Letree wrote: »

If it has no effect in consumption then why are the alcohol companies against it. They must feel threatened by it. The Scottish Whiskey Association fight very hard against the introduction in Scotland.

Leo seriously will you go off and read all of the international studies.

Equally while your at it examine the stats on consumption for Ireland its been falling since 2001 we aren't even in the top three.

You need a reality check