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Child Item

Minimum Alcohol pricing to be signed into Law

Timistry

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1022/482077-public-health-alcohol-bill/

Multiple excise increases in the last few Budgets and now this... Ireland is already one of the most expensive countries in Europe for alcohol. Like many, I can appreciate the negative impacts that it has on society but these nanny state measures just will not work

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[Deleted User]

I was just thinking that if three drinks is now dangerous binge drinking why are none of the health professionals etc calling for publicans to stop serving people after three drinks!

the_syco

rubadub wrote: »

some might see that as a good thing to have youngsters taking (usually) less harmful recreational drugs than alcohol.

When it comes down to it, the craziness usually only happens when you mix drugs and booze.

IMO, it'll just lead to people importing booze over the border, and selling it on the black market.

L1011

Scottish version of the law deemed incompatible with free trade - just like our minimum pricing on smokes was:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/03/scotlands-minimum-alcohol-price-plan-dealt-huge-blow

This is not going to happen.

Saruman

I'm not sure if our government are truly as inept as they appear to be or if they knew it would not pass and went ahead anyway just to be seen to be doing something. Now they can say look, we tried.

Increasing the cost of alcohol doesn't decrease consumption. Only occasional drinkers think about price. Problem drinkers do not.
All it does is hurt the poor and most vulnerable in society.

The government has an out, it's what they should have done at the beginning. Bring back the groceries order, at least on alcohol.
Below cost selling in large supermarkets is the real issue. It's hurting independent off-licences and pubs.

n97 mini

Saruman wrote: »

I'm not sure if our government are truly as inept as they appear to be or if they knew it would not pass and went ahead anyway just to be seen to be doing something. Now they can say look, we tried.

Increasing the cost of alcohol doesn't decrease consumption. Only occasional drinkers think about price. Problem drinkers do not.
All it does is hurt the poor and most vulnerable in society.

It'd probably hurt underage/teen drinkers aswell. Might get the young legal drinkers back into pubs too if "prinks" were a lot more expensive.

Gloomtastic!

L1011 wrote: »

Scottish version of the law deemed incompatible with free trade - just like our minimum pricing on smokes was:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/03/scotlands-minimum-alcohol-price-plan-dealt-huge-blow

This is not going to happen.

Isn't Ireland's car VRT also illegal in terms of European free trade but the Government just choose to ignore any protests from Europe.

Saruman

n97 mini wrote: »

It'd probably hurt underage/teen drinkers aswell. Might get the young legal drinkers back into pubs too if "prinks" were a lot more expensive.

Maybe but I doubt it. They can't just walk in to a supermarket and purchase alcohol. Not unless they look much older than 18.
They get their alcohol indirectly which means it won't make much difference how much it costs. If price were a factor, kids wouldn't take up smoking which is a far more expensive vice than drinking. Nor would they take up drinking considering we are already the 3rd highest in the EU for beer/wine.

L1011

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Isn't Ireland's car VRT also illegal in terms of European free trade but the Government just choose to ignore any protests from Europe.

No. It has quite specifically found to be legal but against the "ethos" of the ruling. We are not the only country with similar VRT (Netherlands and Denmark have even higher), all have been ruled legal.

Mesrine65

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Isn't Ireland's car VRT also illegal in terms of European free trade but the Government just choose to ignore any protests from Europe.

The official legal position in Europe can be found on the Commission’s website where it states...

“At present there is little Community legislation, or harmonisation of national fiscal provisions, applied by the Member States in the area of passenger car taxation.

Therefore, it is for each Member State to lay down national provisions for the taxation of these cars.

The few pieces of legislation currently in force mainly cover the cross-border aspects of car taxation”.

Source http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/other_taxes/passenger_car/index_en.htm

Brendan Bendar

Saruman wrote: »

I'm not sure if our government are truly as inept as they appear to be or if they knew it would not pass and went ahead anyway just to be seen to be doing something. Now they can say look, we tried.

Increasing the cost of alcohol doesn't decrease consumption. Only occasional drinkers think about price. Problem drinkers do not.
All it does is hurt the poor and most vulnerable in society.

The government has an out, it's what they should have done at the beginning. Bring back the groceries order, at least on alcohol.
Below cost selling in large supermarkets is the real issue. It's hurting independent off-licences and pubs.

Pubs rode the drinker ragged, and eventually killed the trade.

I have zero sympathy for pubs who Fleeced the public with their prices.

How come Spain where drink is dirt cheap hasn't an 'alcohol problem' it's our attitude to drink that's the issue here.

L1011

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

How come Spain where drink is dirt cheap hasn't an 'alcohol problem' it's our attitude to drink that's the issue here.

The limited opening hours leading to "hockey that down the throat lads*, we'll get another two before closing..." races to the lights going up, and the insane pub prices leading to heavy pre-drinking and the 'hidden naggin' are two things the Spanish don't have

Some of the other European countries with major drink problems also have them, though. Denmark hasn't got the restrictive opening hours but you really have to be loaded to go out for a night compared to supermarket booze.

*or girls, my sister is the worst for arriving back to the table with multiple Jack Daniels and minimal coke bottles just after last orders.

Saruman

L1011 wrote: »

The limited opening hours leading to "hockey that down the throat lads*, we'll get another two before closing..." races to the lights going up, and the insane pub prices leading to heavy pre-drinking and the 'hidden naggin' are two things the Spanish don't have

Some of the other European countries with major drink problems also have them, though. Denmark hasn't got the restrictive opening hours but you really have to be loaded to go out for a night compared to supermarket booze.

*or girls, my sister is the worst for arriving back to the table with multiple Jack Daniels and minimal coke bottles just after last orders.

And those statements in bold are the issue. Not the price of drink. Not the availability of drink. It's this psychological need that tells us that the only way to have a good time is to get so drunk that you don't recall having a good time.

Why does anyone need to get pre-liquored up on the cheap before they go out for the night? That indicates that the goal is to get drunk. Nothing more.

This is the attitude that needs to be changed. In the same way that people can actually have a good time without drinking. It's a little harder without the social lubricant of alcohol and beer is the best of social lubricants because of its historical aspects as such and low ABV as well as the calming effects of hops.

The only way to reduce problem drinking is to change our attitude to alcohol. Restricting availability and increasing prices only hurts the poor and the responsible drinkers. It makes no difference to the problem drinkers. In fact, it creates a culture of binge drinking. This is what successive lazy governments have done, not just in Ireland, also in other countries.
Sweden is now essentially the binge drinking capital of the world. It's actually scary how bad their restrictive and expensive alcohol laws have left them.

L1011

Saruman wrote: »

And those statements in bold are the issue. Not the price of drink. Not the availability of drink. It's this psychological need that tells us that the only way to have a good time is to get so drunk that you don't recall having a good time.

Why does anyone need to get pre-liquored up on the cheap before they go out for the night? That indicates that the goal is to get drunk. Nothing more.

This is the attitude that needs to be changed. In the same way that people can actually have a good time without drinking. It's a little harder without the social lubricant of alcohol and beer is the best of social lubricants because of its historical aspects as such and low ABV as well as the calming effects of hops.

The only way to reduce problem drinking is to change our attitude to alcohol. Restricting availability and increasing prices only hurts the poor and the responsible drinkers. It makes no difference to the problem drinkers. In fact, it creates a culture of binge drinking. This is what successive lazy governments have done, not just in Ireland, also in other countries.
Sweden is now essentially the binge drinking capital of the world. It's actually scary how bad their restrictive and expensive alcohol laws have left them.

I meant loaded as in rich, not loaded as in drunk; but you're still right.

[Deleted User]

So this is back in the news today.

Does anyone know will this new law effect craft beers?.

I don't drink cheap garbage anymore so hoping it doesn't effect the 4 for e10 style offers in Super Valu etc.

It seems a can of beer will now cost e2, this is about what I'm happy to pay now, or better put the minimum I'm currently paying.

If this means crafts get pushed up it'll be a disaster, but maybe it won't effect them and actually lead to an increase in sales with the margins closing?.

Certainly will be the end of the Dutch Gold and Bavaria's as you'd be mad to pay e2 for a can of those.

Bartyman

Deleted User wrote: »

I was just thinking that if three drinks is now dangerous binge drinking why are none of the health professionals etc calling for publicans to stop serving people after three drinks!

I think the bar in Leinster House is going to limit it to three drinks.

It'll save them having a fire every few years to reconcile the "Members" tabs.

um7y1h83ge06nx

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/bottle-of-wine-to-cost-minimum-of-863-under-new-alcohol-law-34273680.html

A bottle of wine will cost a minimum of €8.63 and a 500ml can of beer will be priced at no less than €1.95 under a new alcohol bill published by the Health Minister today.

*A 750ml bottle of win at 11.5pc strength is to cost €8.63
*A 700ml bottle of 40pc strength vodka will cost €28
*A litre bottle of cider at 4.3pc will cost €4.30

Have to say this is a little more than I thought.

Looking at current purchases I made recently, I bought a slab of Guinness and Heineken for €28, new rules would bring those to 24 x €1.95 = €54.60. :eek:

I bought a litre of Paddy in Supervalu for €25. Under new rules that would be 28/0.7 = €40 :eek:

I do genuinely believe in responsible drinking but that's pretty shocking price inflation.

oblivious

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Certainly will be the end of the Dutch Gold and Bavaria's as you'd be mad to pay e2 for a can of those.

Maybe or there is a price-rise on other "premium" brands to protect them.

But the big issue is the Sheffield Alcohol Policy Model, which min pricing is based upon was shown to be false.

An alcohol consumption is falling in Ireland potentially in line white what the government is looking for

um7y1h83ge06nx

Apologies, didn't see the other thread...

um7y1h83ge06nx

Looking at current purchases I made recently, I bought a slab of Guinness and Heineken for €28, new rules would bring those to 24 x €1.95 = €54.60. :eek:

I bought a litre of Paddy in Supervalu for €25. Under new rules that would be 28/0.7 = €40 :eek:

I do genuinely believe in responsible drinking but that's pretty shocking price inflation.

racso1975

When does it come into effect?

stefanovich

Roman Tasty Statistic wrote: »

Looking at current purchases I made recently, I bought a slab of Guinness and Heineken for €28, new rules would bring those to 24 x €1.95 = €54.60. :eek:

I bought a litre of Paddy in Supervalu for €25. Under new rules that would be 28/0.7 = €40 :eek:

I do genuinely believe in responsible drinking but that's pretty shocking price inflation.

We are already paying well above he actual value. Compare Irish whisky prices in France and in Ireland, you'll get a shock.

More nanny state nonsense.

PTH2009

Roman Tasty Statistic wrote: »

Looking at current purchases I made recently, I bought a slab of Guinness and Heineken for €28, new rules would bring those to 24 x €1.95 = €54.60. :eek:

I bought a litre of Paddy in Supervalu for €25. Under new rules that would be 28/0.7 = €40 :eek:

I do genuinely believe in responsible drinking but that's pretty shocking price inflation.

pretty shocking alright. when will this be coming in ??. will stock up before like half the country

Ageyev

750ml bottle of wine at 11.5% strength is set to cost €8.63, which works out at €1.15 for a 100ml glass
A pint of beer at 4.3% strength will have a minimum price of €2.44
A 700ml bottle of 40% strength vodka will cost €28
A 300ml can of beer at 4.3% strength will cost €1.29 – which works out at €30.96 for a slab of 24 cans
A litre bottle of cider at 4.3% strength will cost €4.30
A two litre bottle of cider at 7% strength will cost €14

http://www.thejournal.ie/alcohol-pricing-advertising-announced-2491642-Dec2015/

A can of beer will cost a minimum of €1.95 under new legislation announced today.

Health minister Leo Varadkar has published laws which set a minimum price for each unit of alcohol.

A bottle of wine will cost around €8.60, while a bottle of supermarket own brand vodka could more than double in price from €13 to €28.

The Bill sets out a minimum unit price of 10c per gram of alcohol in alcohol products in order to eliminate very cheap alcohol from all stores and shops.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/heres-the-least-your-can-of-beer-or-bottle-of-wine-could-cost-under-new-legislation-710658.html

Varadkar said that there'll be fewer suicides, cancer, disease, car crashes and less people in A&E at the weekends. That's a helluva bunch of claims to make. If this doesn't happen do the measures get reversed and undone?

oblivious

@Super_sonic I merged your thread to keep the discussion tidy

um7y1h83ge06nx

oblivious wrote: »

@Super_sonic I merged your thread to keep the discussion tidy

Thanks, and apologies for not seeing this thread.

Going back on topic - people will always find ways around things and some of the avoidance might end up causing more issues.

* Buying alcohol when abroad - exchequer misses out on revenue.

* Legal Homebrewing of beer and wine (shhh don't tell them about this,) - Again, less revenue as they will only be getting VAT on the ingredients.

* Illegal home distilling of spirits - Less revenue, and health issues due to potentially bad alcohol being produced at high ABV such as illegal poteen.

So it may cause more issues than it solves.

ThisRegard

I think I said it previously on this thread but I believe it will push up the price of craft beers. The retailers themselves will do it, and I think the brewers themselves may not mind too much, in order to differentiate between premium products and the rest.

BaZmO*

Everybody on board the Newry Bus!! Ding! Ding!

I'd say the retailers up the north will be rubbing their hands together.

oblivious

BaZmO* wrote: »

Everybody on board the Newry Bus!! Ding! Ding!

I'd say the retailers up the north will be rubbing their hands together.

I bet they will

Also it will now be as cheap to have a pint in an Irish Wetherspoons as buying a can from the supermarket

GLaDOS

Did the EU not say a similar law in Scotland breached anti-competition laws?

BeerNut

racso1975 wrote: »

When does it come into effect?

It may never. There's a long way to go before this becomes law.

Remember to raise it with candidates in the election campaign, folks!