The Joy

sonny.knowles wrote:

So your knowledge of the subject is .... non existent. Nice.

Wow, I didn't even give an answer and you still managed to do what I was expecting you to do if I did give an answer...

Turtyturd wrote: »

Working in the IPS. :pac:

Fair enough. Do you consider Irish prisons to be harsh? If so, why? And relative to what?

sup_dude wrote: »

Wow, I didn't even give an answer and you still managed to do what I was expecting you to do if I did give an answer...

Feel free to answer then. You painted yourself into this corner yourself. Simplest thing is to acknowledge it and we can move on.

Turtyturd wrote: »

Working in the IPS. :pac:

:pac:

sonny.knowles wrote:

Feel free to answer then. You painted yourself into this corner yourself. Simplest thing is to acknowledge it and we can move on.

I have a close relative who works as a counseller in prisons. Prisoner reform was also something I looked into when looking at EFETA and EGALA.

I didn't paint myself into any corner. I know fine rightly it was a loaded question, and lo and behold...

smash

sup_dude wrote: »

I have a close relative who works as a counseller in prisons. Prisoner reform was also something I looked into when looking at EFETA and EGALA.

I didn't paint myself into any corner. I know fine rightly it was a loaded question, and lo and behold...

Feel the burn sonny.... feel the burn!

sup_dude wrote: »

I have a close relative who works as a counseller in prisons. Prisoner reform was also something I looked into when looking at EFETA and EGALA.

I didn't paint myself into any corner. I know fine rightly it was a loaded question, and lo and behold...

So someone else's opinions.

smash wrote: »

Feel the burn sonny.... feel the burn!

The burn - because the poster (claims to) know someone that may know something? :rolleyes:

Are you taking the piss? :P

smash

sonny.knowles wrote: »

The burn - because the poster (claims to) know someone that may know something? :rolleyes:

Are you taking the piss? :P

The poster also researched it a bit themselves. Did you miss that part?

Oh how did I know?!

Now if you would just read the post you twisted properly, you might find a different conclusion in there somewhere.

So getting back to the question of whether Irish prisons are harsh. In what way are they harsh? And relative to what?

nxbyveromdwjpg

The prisoners have lost their freedom, they're locked up in cages 16 hours a day and get one 30 minute visit per week. Then add the constant overhanging threat of violence.

It's absolutely miserable I imagine.

I have to wonder about the mentality of people crying out that inmates need to suffer more. Bizarre.

corner of hells

Lucas Ugly Resort wrote: »

The prisoners have lost their freedom, they're locked up in cages 16 hours a day and get one 30 minute visit per week. Then add the constant overhanging threat of violence.

It's absolutely miserable I imagine.

I have to wonder about the mentality of people crying out that inmates need to suffer more. Bizarre.

Add in addiction issues , mental ill health , lack of opportunity and marginalisation .

smash wrote: »

The poster also researched it a bit themselves. Did you miss that part?

Yeah, I forgot about her reading something. Thanks for the reminder Smash. I read something once too.

Bloke on the telly one time who had just left the Joy reackoned it has become a lot harder in recent years with gangs within the prison.
Used to be easy...his words

Lucas Ugly Resort wrote: »

The prisoners have lost their freedom, they're locked up in cages 16 hours a day and get one 30 minute visit per week. Then add the constant overhanging threat of violence.

It's absolutely miserable I imagine.

I have to wonder about the mentality of people crying out that inmates need to suffer more. Bizarre.

I didn't say they needed to suffer more (in case that is aimed at me). But I do have an issue with people claiming the current conditions are 'harsh'. They aren't by any stretch of the imagination. Use of emotive terms like 'cages' is not helpful.

As for loss of freedom, they are in prison, what do you expect?

kneemos wrote: »

Bloke on the telly one time who had just left the Joy reackoned it has become a lot harder in recent years with gangs within the prison.
Used to be easy...his words

Being locked in the cell (as opposed to cage) is probably a good thing then.

nxbyveromdwjpg

sonny.knowles wrote: »

I didn't say they needed to suffer more (in case that is aimed at me). But I do have an issue with people claiming the current conditions are 'harsh'. They aren't by any stretch of the imagination. Use of emotive terms like 'cages' is not helpful.

As for loss of freedom, they are in prison, what do you expect?

I expect them to lose their freedom.

Now what is it exactly that you expect?

nxbyveromdwjpg

kneemos wrote: »

Used to be easy...his words

Used to be easy when it was 3 or 4 to a cell, with a bucket to sh*t in in the corner?

Hard to believe

corner of hells

sonny.knowles wrote: »

I didn't say they needed to suffer more (in case that is aimed at me). But I do have an issue with people claiming the current conditions are 'harsh'. They aren't by any stretch of the imagination. Use of emotive terms like 'cages' is not helpful.

As for loss of freedom, they are in prison, what do you expect?

How do measure what's harsh ?

For me the loss of freedom , separation from loved ones , having to be confined in a cell for hours on end is harsh.

Yes, that is exactly what I said.

You wonder where I may have got the notion that your original question may have been loaded. You even seemed a bit offended that I suggested it. And yet, here we are with you proving multiple times that the question was exactly that.

There is a difference between saying prison is harsh and prison isn't cushy because they get mince pies. The current prison system still focuses on the outdated values involving punishment, rather than reform. Yes, some people cannot be reformed, and yes, some people will not be allowed out again even with reform. However, as it stands, people are in prison for petty crime, serving their time and then tossed out. Yet these people are expected to able to function and have a normal, uncriminal life afterwards.

Lucas Ugly Resort wrote: »

Used to be easy when it was 3 or 4 to a cell, with a bucket to sh*t in in the corner?

Hard to believe

Indeed,but there are many factors.
Being stuck in a cell alone rather than with your mates is not necessarily an improvement for some.

Turtyturd

corner of hells wrote: »

How do measure what's harsh ?

For me the loss of freedom , separation from loved ones , having to be confined in a cell for hours on end is harsh.

But don't they get free Xbox's, PS4's and pairs of Airmax to counteract that sure.

corner of hells wrote: »

How do measure what's harsh ?

For me the loss of freedom , separation from loved ones , having to be confined in a cell for hours on end is harsh.

It sounds like you believe that prison is harsh, full stop. Regardless of the actual conditions in Irish prisons.

What's your alternative?

Turtyturd wrote: »

But don't they get free Xbox's, PS4's and pairs of Airmax to counteract that sure.

You should know,you work there.

Oh you're being sarcastic?

corner of hells

sonny.knowles wrote: »

It sounds like you believe that prison is harsh, full stop. Regardless of the actual conditions in Irish prisons.

What's your alternative?

My experience is based on working in prisons and working with ex prisoners .

I do accept that prisons are absolutely necessary in any environment, there are some individuals who need time in prison.

It takes a lot to get a prison sentence in Ireland and some do get away with multiple convictions before serving any substantive sentence.

However I can give you any number of examples of people who went to prison and came out with significant mental ill health , their addiction still in existence ,limited or no support after prison , that's what makes it harsh.

What's your own experience ? You seem to get very abrasive and combative when anyone attempts to engage with you and seek to avoid really answering any questions , was your example the mince pie example ?

Your contribution was a comparison between prison being harsh and homelessness, they don't compare.

Turtyturd wrote: »

But don't they get free Xbox's, PS4's and pairs of Airmax to counteract that sure.

Do they?

I assume Airmax refers to Nike runners?

Billy86

sonny.knowles wrote: »

It sounds like you believe that prison is harsh, full stop. Regardless of the actual conditions in Irish prisons.

What's your alternative?

For someone so eager to interrogate others, you really have been quite reluctant to pose some of the questions put to you on this thread.

corner of hells wrote: »

My experience is based on working in prisons and working with ex prisoners .

I do accept that prisons are absolutely necessary in any environment, there are some individuals who need time in prison.

It takes a lot to get a prison sentence in Ireland and some do get away with multiple convictions before serving any substantive sentence.

However I can give you any number of examples of people who went to prison and came out with significant mental ill health , their addiction still in existence ,limited or no support after prison , that's what makes it harsh.

What's your own experience ? You seem to get very abrasive and combative when anyone attempts to engage with you and seek to avoid really answering any questions , was your example the mince pie example ?

No, I didn't bring mince pies into the thread.

I have no experience of prisons, I live a law abiding life, I don't know anyone who has been in prison, I have never visited a prison, hopefully I never will.

I am far more likely to be a victim of crime at some point in my life rather than a perpetrator. (My car was broken into once, thankfully that has been my only experience of crime to date, more than 10 years ago).

There is an underclass of criminals / repeat offenders that add nothing to society and only take from society. I have limited sympathy for these people.