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Target Practice

Dubgal72

Hi boardsies, Ososlo (blame her) pointed me in the direction of Training Logs and suggested that I might like to add one. So here I am.

You can probably guess from the log title that I am shooting for some targets. You might also guess from my user name that I am female, with affiliations to Dublin and am aged 32. I am also not a mathematician.

Back in the 80s my 'previous life', I ran a lot for a teenager. Skip a few decades and I am again running a lot. The interim, not so much. My twenties I spent running away from running, my thirties were spent running back to running, away from running...and mostly drawing to a standstill.

In many ways, I feel like a dinosaur or like I have entered a different century in my reincarnation as a runner (ok, actually I have. Push comes to shove I have entered a new millennium...).
I only found out what a Garmin is this last August, I have no idea what VO2 max is, my HR Max is uncharted territory and I am still sketchy re aerobic and anaerobic fitness details.......
I am going to relearn how to run 'by feel/effort' (actually that's going well, slowly but well) so won't invest in a gps watch just yet. I will get a HRM and definitely buy a stopwatch. The other details I hope to fill in via you guys.

I picked up my asics last Jan and decided (cue eyeball roll) to....run the marathon. As a bucket list thing. So yeah.

I'm glad I did, me and running are back together (*violins*).

And of course the marathon bit me. In the bum and badly. 23 minute positive split anybody?! But along the way I hope I have banked some endurance and have definitely dipped my toe into the beginnings of some quality session work.

For 2015 my targets are:

5k sub 20 mins (Current 21:38)
10k as near to 40 mins as I can (None official)
10 miles as far below 75 as I can (Current 78:04)
HM 1:35. (Current 1:41:08)

Would also like a crack at the track, 800m, 1500m and 3000m for old time's sake.

All advice and suggestions very welcome, thanks in advance. Nagging 'have you done your core exercises this week??' especially welcome!

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Dubgal72

^^^ :eek: I'll end up burning everything!!

Murph_D

Just listen to the lactic. Simples.

Dubgal72

Murph_D wrote: »

Just listen to the lactic. Simples.

Hmmm, no lactic on this, not a hint. Yeah, am usually quite good at backing off at the lactic burn...It was tough, but no lactic

Mulberry

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hmmm, no lactic on this, not a hint. Yeah, am usually quite good at backing off at the lactic burn...It was tough, but no lactic

Mind if I hijack here? "Listen the lactic" - tempo runs have been explained to me and I think I'm doing them more or less right BUT - I ain't never heard the lactic! Or have I? Can you describe the sensation (or sound!). Thanks!

Ososlo

Mulberry wrote: »

Mind if I hijack here? "Listen the lactic" - tempo runs have been explained to me and I think I'm doing them more or less right BUT - I ain't never heard the lactic! Or have I? Can you describe the sensation (or sound!). Thanks!

+1. I never understand it either - terms like "swimming in lactic" etc. I'd love to hear it explained!!!!
I also feel I have the pace/effort correct but don't "get" the expression about the feeling of lactic in the legs.

Myles Splitz

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hmmm, no lactic on this, not a hint. Yeah, am usually quite good at backing off at the lactic burn...It was tough, but no lactic

Wouldn't be confused, though lactate build up is higher than the level of clearance around these levels your muscles are not being overrun with lactate

Normally this feeling would come at approx readings of 10.0+ mmol (800 or the odd time in 1500m runners at lower but have no tolerance built up)

To put it into context tempo runs or AT are normally about 4.0 mmol

aquinn

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Wouldn't be confused, though lactate build up is higher than the level of clearance around these levels your muscles are not being overrun with lactate

Normally this feeling would come at approx readings of 10.0+ mmol (800 or the odd time in 1500m runners at lower but have no tolerance built up)

To put it into context tempo runs or AT are normally about 4.0 mmol

Oh right yeah, totally.

Google has no translate option for me on this

Myles Splitz

Mulberry wrote: »

Mind if I hijack here? "Listen the lactic" - tempo runs have been explained to me and I think I'm doing them more or less right BUT - I ain't never heard the lactic! Or have I? Can you describe the sensation (or sound!). Thanks!

Blood lactate (or as often mistaken as lactic acid) is a bi product of the energy production process. Depending on work level we either produce energy with or without oxygen. This bi product also releases hydrogen ions which result in fatigue and is normally produced at a higher rate in the absence of sufficient oxygen.

Think of it as the following

1) Aerobic Energy Pathway. Consider this our "Solar Power" if you will, it has a significant set up cost but once established it can be used for sustainable energy and produce less harmful waste products

2) Anaerobic Energy Path way. Our Fossil Fuels. produce a highly effective energy source but is finite and produces waste products that are harmful to the enviroment (our body in this case)

Tempo's are designed to make the body more effective at using the aerobic energy pathway meaning that we are able to sustain paces for longer at comfortable effort. The trick is that tempo's do this by tethering on the edge. Run these too hard and you are producing more lactate that your body can clear and as a result your body just gets used to the lactate rather than becoming more efficient at clearing it.

Myles Splitz

aquinn wrote: »

Oh right yeah, totally.

Google has no translate option for me on this

^ English Translation took a bit of time to load

Firedance

is it not that feeling that you can't run another step (you can but you feel you cant) for e.g if i'm doing a track session and go off waaaay to fast my legs are flying for the first 200m then the pain/discomfort comes and you kind of feel like your wading through mud all of a sudden. I think that's what it is? I only ever experience this at that intensity on a track though or in the last KM of a race. I could be completely wrong of course, hopefully DG will come along with the right explanation.

Edit: I see Myles has explained it

Myles Splitz

Firedance wrote: »

is it not that feeling that you can't run another step (you can but you feel you cant) for e.g if i'm doing a track session and go off waaaay to fast my legs are flying for the first 200m then the pain/discomfort comes and you kind of feel like your wading through mud all of a sudden. I think that's what it is? I only ever experience this at that intensity on a track though or in the last KM of a race. I could be completely wrong of course, hopefully DG will come along with the right explanation.

Personally I have found it to be a swimming headache type feeling with the taste of blood/metal in the mouth where you feel like every step is your foot falling in front of you (can't beat a good aul 800/1500 race :P)

Bungy Girl

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Personally I have found it to be a swimming headache type feeling with the taste of blood/metal in the mouth where you feel like every step is your foot falling in front of you (can't beat a good aul 800/1500 race :P)

Was wondering what that was....only got that after an 800m time trial during the summer. Would never get it in training, not a chance I'd push myself that hard

menoscemo

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Personally I have found it to be a swimming headache type feeling with the taste of blood/metal

I think I got that in the beer mile that time I forgot my opener and had to bite the tops off.

pconn062

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Hmmm, no lactic on this, not a hint. Yeah, am usually quite good at backing off at the lactic burn...It was tough, but no lactic

That's a good thing that there was no lactic burn, it should never really feature on a tempo run if you get the pacing right. The only time I ever really suffer from lactic burn is after 800m/1500m/miles races. Usually starts a minute or two after the race and can last for a good while, god it's a terrible feeling. I remember myself and Myles both lying at the side of the indoor track in Athlone earlier this year after a nasty 1500m, both of us flooded with lactate! :pac:

BeepBeep67

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Yes, I think you're right (about the over cooking bit), I'm still getting used to tempo running, in fact it's only since September that I've had any consistent progression with them. Practice makes perfect

Remind me of your most recent 5k PB?

Dubgal72

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Remind me of your most recent 5k PB?

19:29 from April.
Two recent parkruns were 20:04 and 20:06, two weeks apart. The 20:04 felt a lot faster and required a huge :eek: effort. Have done some faster sessions in between and the 20:06 yesterday felt much more controlled, less effort and felt a lot stronger.
As an aside, I'll be gunning for that PB come Jingle Bells

Dubgal72

Mulberry wrote: »

Mind if I hijack here? "Listen the lactic" - tempo runs have been explained to me and I think I'm doing them more or less right BUT - I ain't never heard the lactic! Or have I? Can you describe the sensation (or sound!). Thanks!

Ososlo wrote: »

+1. I never understand it either - terms like "swimming in lactic" etc. I'd love to hear it explained!!!!
I also feel I have the pace/effort correct but don't "get" the expression about the feeling of lactic in the legs.

Hi guys, I think maybe I have been using the wrong terminology. Hopefully Myles or pconn will be able to answer below

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Blood lactate (or as often mistaken as lactic acid) is a bi product of the energy production process. Depending on work level we either produce energy with or without oxygen. This bi product also releases hydrogen ions which result in fatigue and is normally produced at a higher rate in the absence of sufficient oxygen.

Think of it as the following

1) Aerobic Energy Pathway. Consider this our "Solar Power" if you will, it has a significant set up cost but once established it can be used for sustainable energy and produce less harmful waste products

2) Anaerobic Energy Path way. Our Fossil Fuels. produce a highly effective energy source but is finite and produces waste products that are harmful to the enviroment (our body in this case)

Tempo's are designed to make the body more effective at using the aerobic energy pathway meaning that we are able to sustain paces for longer at comfortable effort. The trick is that tempo's do this by tethering on the edge. Run these too hard and you are producing more lactate that your body can clear and as a result your body just gets used to the lactate rather than becoming more efficient at clearing it.

I really like this explanation, makes a lot of sense. Thanks

pconn062 wrote: »

That's a good thing that there was no lactic burn, it should never really feature on a tempo run if you get the pacing right. The only time I ever really suffer from lactic burn is after 800m/1500m/miles races. Usually starts a minute or two after the race and can last for a good while, god it's a terrible feeling. I remember myself and Myles both lying at the side of the indoor track in Athlone earlier this year after a nasty 1500m, both of us flooded with lactate! :pac:

Ouch sounds horrible. I am clearly not pushing myself hard enough on the track

So just to clarify, have I been using the wrong terminology? Have I been approaching my threshold then when I say I feel 'lactic' approaching on a tempo run at too hard a pace? (this happened a few times earlier in the year, once recently but I backed off)

annapr

Dubgal72 wrote: »

19:29 from April.
Two recent parkruns were 20:04 and 20:06, two weeks apart. The 20:04 felt a lot faster and required a huge :eek: effort. Have done some faster sessions in between and the 20:06 yesterday felt much more controlled, less effort and felt a lot stronger.
As an aside, I'll be gunning for that PB come Jingle Bells

Well done on the win yesterday! Even though it's a timed run not a race

Dubgal72

annapr wrote: »

Well done on the win yesterday! Even though it's a timed run not a race

Thanks anna

I particularly enjoyed this race timed run

Dubgal72

Fri
Rest

Sat
Parkrun, 20:06,
5th overall,
1st female,
- fwiw 3rd in age grade (my clubmate's 7 year old son beat me in that quite rightly, running 22:xx :cool:).

This was a whole different experience compared to two weeks ago. Everything was better: pacing, effort, control, finish and most of all, racing. This came down to a 'race the man - men in this case - not the clock' approach.

As per usual, I hit start on the stopwatch but didn't look at it again until the end. The first 1km saw me in the first 3 or 4 but already quite strung out. I could hear a few footfalls behind me and by the time we started the 2km loop, they had bunched up behind me. I had contemplated chasing the guy (clubmate) ahead of me but the gap was about 50m and I risked being in no man's land for quite a while with very little reward. I'll save that tactic for another day, I'm very happy with the racing tactics I used yesterday. Going down the first 200m drag on the 2k loop, a guy ('hat guy') surged ahead, freaking me out a bit mentally I admit. I nearly let him go but shook myself - metaphorically you understand, not physically

- and latched onto him. We took another guy with us ('tall guy' He was really tall, 6'4 or 5" I'd say). There was a little bit of dodging through a big puddle on one stretch and a bit of slipping where the course cuts across grass for 30m or so. It rained very heavily and was bloody cold but luckily no wind.

So that was our little group for the next while and can't remember when but Hat Guy dropped back quite suddenly. The bloody nerve of him! Freaking me out and then not having the bottle to do it properly :mad:

And then there was me and Tall Guy.
We played a little cat and mouse game, him going ahead, me going ahead. I'll admit after one passing out, I went ahead once and deliberately pulled back the pace ever so slightly, just to show him who was boss. I was beginning to notice that he wasn't feeling the love on any of the uphill drags. On the final lap, with 1k to go, I did a little assessment and yes, it was hurting but not as much as other times but no, it was a bit early to start building just yet. With 700 to go, I injected a bit of pace up the slope and again at the nasty little ****er speed bump just before the 500m to go mark. It's a fecky little thing but hurts on tired legs. I picked a point about 30m after the crest and told myself not to let up until I got to that point. That shook him off a little. After this, there is a slight downhill through the woods and I let the legs stride out, picking up the pace. I had a feeling that if it came to a sprint finish, Tall Guy would have the advantage due to his legs probably reaching to my armpits

With 300 to go, I started picking off objects along the path 'bench, kick, bin, kick again, long stretch, build, drive, move, save a tiny bit in case he catches you, now go, you got it! Slip slop into the grass verge and finish chute...phew'.

The footsteps I thought I heard were actually the echo of my sodden feet on the tarmac because the results have him eight seconds behind me

It was also quite satisfying to close the gap on my clubmate. Maybe I should have gone with him and maybe got a faster time in the process but I'll stick with the decision I made, I think it was a valuable 'how to race' experience.

Great to see nop98 reaping the rewards of marathon training, smashing his PB. Sub 21 for you in Jingle Bells N

Total incl w/u and c/d 10.5

Sun
10
Mlr in park with lots of clubmates. Lovely morning but a bit fragile due to late night and vino. Underside of heel also been a bit tender the last 10 days or so, particularly sore after this run. I was in heels all day yesterday and last night. Note to self: Bin the heels, heels are not a runner's friend :mad:

Weekly breakdown:
39 or so miles incl
4 days of running, 1 double day -
4 key sessions and 1 recovery run
2 core sessions and some ancillary stuff.
Thorough stretching after all key sessions.

So I'm going to wind up things on the novices thread over the next few days and take a boards holiday. It has been a pretty intense few months on the novices thread but in many ways some of the most satisfying of my #2 running life.
I also have a few things to deal with in 'real life' which require my full attention.

Sayonara, see you in a few weeks and happy running x

chickey2

Brilliant race, (I mean timed run!)
Enjoy your break, I'd say you need it.

Murph_D

Very nice, A, you "timed" it perfectly. Enjoy the break.

FBOT01

Nicely done, A. Enjoy your well earned boards holiday!

Dubgal72

That went well...not :rolleyes: November was to be a sharpening up month but the dreaded PF put a stop to most of that. From mid-month, it was pretty chronic but has responded okish to intensive management, rest and easy running.

On the plus side, I've got back into the pool and have committed to the gym. This has been surprisingly satisfying and induces a lovely feeling of smugness afterwards....Pool running has also improved due to the introduction of structured sessions...I even ran out of time on the last two sessions, instead of wishing the clock away like I did during the summer.

week beg 30 Nov

Mon 30 REST

Tue 1 AM Run home (4 miles + 1 to massage in new GT2000s) and then thai massage. Heel tender enough in certain positions in the afternoon. Karl taped it up again.

Wed 2 AM 5 miles (on road

) to Shoreline.
Full session, stretching in between sets. Stretching, foam rolling and 1m walk and jog cool down. Definitely felt this session!

Session:
- resistance: all 3 sets, ca 90 secs between sets
Squat 10 reps, 7.5kg
High row 12 reps, 15kg
Deadlift with kettlebells 10 reps, 12kg

Pistol squat 8 ea leg TRX
Calf raise 10 reps, light res.
Glute/ham raises with power bag (lightest) 8 reps

- Core
Plank 3x1 min ea
Raised supermans 3 sets of 12 ea side
Controlled back extension (cobra) 3 sets 12 ea

Some Genl stretches after

Chat with Coachy:
Take anti inflamms to help (yup, we agree but he wanted to kick start things)
Run every second day, alternated with pool
Plunge foot in outside bucket of water after run.

Thur 3
Actual: walk/jog to pool
Warm up in pool, 15x1 min/1:10 hard (=half length) and recovery/steady back.
Nicely tired at end

Fri 4 AM unscheduled rest, #2 sick

Sat 5 JB cancelled due to PF
4 easy in new shoes. Ok. Slight twinges in first half mile but went away
Stretching, hockey ball and DS core (15 reps) after

Sun 6
Planned: pool and gym
Actual: jog to pool and in pool just before 11.
POOL:
Short warm up and 36 mins of 3 mins hard, 1 min easy (9x800m at 10 mile pace?)
Followed by 8x20 secs hard/flat out at side of pool/stationary, 40 secs rec
GYM
Full set, stretching between sets and my rehab etc extra stuff put on card.
Stretching and foam rolling to finish. Walk home.

Nicely wrecked. Very satisfying morning.

Mon 7
55 mins easy on road and tarmac in park in new shoes. Grand, pain free during and after (small twinges but didn't get to do full stretching and release routine until much later).

Tue 8
Crazy day, pool session postponed, v frustrating

Wed 9
Pool session, 50 mins incl 5x1 min hard and 8x15 sec flat out, 30 sec rec to finish off. Jog to and from pool. Foot grand

Thur 10
Unscheduled rest, #1 sick. Panicking now before Sunday...worrying if I'll be stale :eek:

Fri 11 Trip to Walkinstown, MS fit me in at short notice for a light release prior to Sunday. Hips feel tight and knee tightness if anything getting worse. All related and fixable, phew. Also given the ok to run this evening, double phew.
4 miles on road in new shoes. Felt so strong and good on this, so bloody great to run free but kept MS's caveat 'easy' in mind....Some tightness in heel now but not too bad.

Will do strides tomorrow and suck it all up on Sunday. So I'm going in to this *slightly* injured, with interrupted training, no sharpening and the fear of my ultra-prepared competitors. And did I mention I have a cold brewing?! Bring it on....

RayCun

What's on Sunday?

Bungy Girl

Welcome back!

County Seniors XC tomorrow, yes ?

Well the pool running will have prepared you for the weather anyway

Best of luck !! Go kill 'em all.

annapr

Best of luck tomorrow A, you won't give up that crown easily anyway!!!!

Firedance

+ 1! the very best of luck A, bring home some scalps....

laura_ac3

Good luck and I hope that injury is on the mend.

Singer

Kick some ass tomorrow! :cool: