Grandeeod wrote: » So this is where we are at, as of 2015. DU - floating around in various guises for over 40 years. I don't have the expenditure figures since its current variation surfaced nearly 15 years ago. MN - 156 million quid later, its gone off the radar and we are about to enter the traditional, "let's do something else instead" phase in North Dublin that will take years to bring to the planning stage and trust me, it won't be built either. I witnessed a lot of anger here today similar, but not as vicious, as the anger I have expressed here and on other threads/forums. I hope those who crossed my path in discussion, can appreciate how utterly despondent one can become with all this BS. Sadly with no specific independent lobby group representing projects such as DU or MN and Public Transport projects in Dublin, the media do as they please and the politicians get away with talking crap and not being held accountable. Emailing TDs with a Joe Duffy type of complaint achieves nothing. I say that with the greatest respect for those who do so. But going head to head with them in the media is a far better option and keeps issues highlighted. In the noughties, it was easy, because they were promising everything. For example, even Irish Rails Barry Kenny insisted stuff would get done, despite an alternative view, backed up by legitimate facts, that it wouldn't. But now is a time that a real alternative voice is needed.
lxflyer wrote: » It's very easy to be popular when you run a simple system of two lines, and which only requires the use of 47 trams each day out of a total fleet of 66 trams.
bk wrote: » Also given that they were able to upgrade the 3000 class from 30 meters to 40 meters shows excellent forward planning and utilisation by the RPA. Compare that to the disaster that the Irish Rail 8200 series DARTS were!
McAlban wrote: » Just to remind you all... The original plans for DART...
Grandeeod wrote: » I'm older than those plans!
bk wrote: » Actually I have to question your numbers here, where does the 47 come from? Reading up on it, they have 66 trams in total: 26 Citadis 301 (3000 class - 40m) 14 Citadis 401 (4000 class - 40m) 26 Citadis 402 (5000 class - 43m) The 26 5000 class were ordered in 2009, well into the recession, so clearly they wouldn't have ordered those unless they were actually needed! They were put on the green line and the 4000 series cascaded onto the Red Line. They have now placed an order for 10 new trams for Luas Cross City. Why would they order so many new trams if there are older ones sitting there unused? Obviously you need to have some spear trams for when other are taken out for repairs. But I can't see them ordering 10 new ones if there were so many gonig unused. Also given that they were able to upgrade the 3000 class from 30 meters to 40 meters shows excellent forward planning and utilisation by the RPA. Compare that to the disaster that the Irish Rail 8200 series DARTS were! And just as I write this I see news on RTE that talks with the Irish Rail unions have broken down and they are yet again threatening strike!!! No one both the public and government have lost all faith in Irish Rail. BTW this all frustrates me, as I think Dart Underground is an extremely important project. But I believe as long as it is tarnished by the Irish Rail brand, it will never happen.
Grandeeod wrote: » Don't be under any allusions that the RPA are somehow superior to the CIE group. A lot of the luas team were ex CIE staff and the tram units were ordered before the creation of the RPA.
jd wrote: » The RPA were originally the Light Rail Office in CIE, if my memory serves me.
McAlban wrote: » And yet very little of it is acheived... Nice to see that Dart Phase 1 is now complete however, and even extended to Malahide and Greystones.
brownbeard wrote: » I reckon if Dublin had a directly elected mayor, he/she/it would be a lightening rod for flak about ditching projects like this. Transport infrastructure would be their greatest responsibility and they would have a remit and a mandate to fight for these kinds of projects as opposed to funds getting diverted to more rural, political causes.
brownbeard wrote: » The latest move to have a directly elected mayor was supported by all Dublin cocos with the exception of Fingal, which probably shouldn't have been included anyway. I'm hoping (perhaps naively) the idea will be rekindled in the next term. I think (perhaps naively) the effect it would have on Dublin based transport infrastructure would be significant.
Cinephille1888 wrote: » I'm so annoyed by this that I'm not sure if I can keep bashing out the words to express myself. I will be writing emails to several people asap over this. I'm a student of planning and this kind of short sightedness is only going to make my job harder into the future.
syklops wrote: » That, with a couple of tram, luas or otherwise lines connecting the lines perpendicularly would be miles ahead of what we have now.
cgcsb wrote: » It won't cost €4bn today or tomorrow, it only requires €200m next year to secure the CPOs. A fraction of the spending on the M17 between the great metropoli of Gort and Tuam. There are PLENTY of other uses for diesel locos.
Deleted User wrote: » If people are so for it in Dublin why not cancel the next march against water infrastructure and march for Dublin underground and Metro North instead.
Grandeeod wrote: » A directly elected mayor needs a budget. So all taxes generated in the GDA should stay in the GDA. Yeah? They'll be using candles for light, outside it within a year. That's what they forget. Dublins contribution, deserves a bigger share of the spoils. However, think about the amount of "rural" TDs in the Dail. In fact across every Dublin coco, you will have councillors and staff that are actually from outside of Dublin itself. I met an old lady today while experiencing local privately run public transport via the NTA. She lived in Dublin for 40 years. Worked in the civil service. Her loyalty? Came right back to where she was born and bred. Take that simple example to big decision making and Dublin hasn't a hope.
loyatemu wrote: » Social Democrats in general would be worth trying to lobby - their existing representatives are all Dublin area based (and reasonably solid politicians). They don't seem to have much on Transport on their website - here's a policy for them.
Scrapping Dart Underground is Short-Sighted Social Democrat TD Catherine Murphy has expressed disappointment at reports today that Government is set to scrap plans for the Dart underground in favour of other projects. Deputy Murphy has previously called the Dart Underground project a ‘game-changer’ in terms of public transport for the greater Dublin area. Speaking today Catherine Murphy said: “Ireland is among the very few developed nations where urban underground high capacity rail has not been attempted as a solution to congestion. Dublin is one of the few largest cities in the world without an underground. The absence of such a transport network in a city as big as Dublin means people are forced to rely on cars. This means our emissions targets look increasingly unachievable – a problem that will cost us financially in terms of fines; the cost of congestion to both individuals and businesses continues to rise; the accident rates increase – it’s a fact that most accidents happen during rush-hour; and simply put, a major international capital city without a proper underground system is ludicrous.” “The Dart underground would represent a key piece of infrastructure for foreign direct investment. It is no secret that large multi-nationals factor in the livability of a city when making location decisions and easy access to and from the airport is critical in those decisions. The Dart underground would connect a series of rail lines and a Luas line to create a transport network befitting an International capital city.” “This is yet another example of this Government’s short-term approach that takes no account of the longer-term requirements which would ensure our country could compete on an international level into the future and Government need to justify the rationale for such a decision.”
Idbatterim wrote: » I received a reply from Clare Daly, agreeing with our sentiments... I will email local FF candidates and see what their opinion is, if they tried to get it back on the agenda, it creates competition...
Schadenfreudia wrote: » Don't tell her that I'll abandon a lifetime of consistent principles and vote for FG if they simply go ahead with DU! (My vote can be bought - but not cheaply..)
Don't tell her that I'll abandon a lifetime of consistent principles and vote for FG if they simply go ahead with DU! (My vote can be bought - but not cheaply..)
Idbatterim wrote: » I agree, I would take DU or MN over a few euro in my back pocket, dont think we are in the majority unfortunately! Dublin being screwed repeatedly, to fund insane road building budgets all over the country so everywhere, gets their "fair share" other than dublin is not on...
captainspeed wrote: » I'm sorry, but with the greatest respect, you're totally wrong on the roads projects outside of Dublin - they are BADLY needed. It's not doing something to keep the country bumpkins happy - they're absolutely essential to give the other parts of the country some chance of being able to contribute to economic growth rather than Dublin subsidising them all the time. Have you tried driving from Cork to Limerick recently? Or Galway to Gort? Or Galway to Tuam?
I do agree that the Government's proposals for an Airport Luas link are totally and utterly wrong, but don't go blaming those of us 'down the country' for that - they could have for instance chosen to build a spur off the Dublin-Belfast line (and would probably cost less money) to the Airport if they wanted to, but didn't. That's what I would favour, Dublin Airport deserves a proper heavy rail connection to the city centre and beyond. Integrated transport is something that simply doesn't exist anywhere in Ireland, and the Airport Luas shambles is yet another example of this.
