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Child Item

"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

eviltimeban

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/09/02/haunting-picture-of-drowned-syrian-boy-in-bodrum-prompts-debate_n_8077012.html?utm_source=change_org&utm_medium=petition (Warning on the image, though the one in this link isn't as bad as the one they refer to)

It's not a political point, it's not a moral point, it's not a 'society' point.

A dead child on a beach isn't something that should happen.

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inforfun

Deleted User wrote: »

But you are now contradicting what you said earlier when you said it was staged. Are you now saying the child and vulture really happened to be there, he just waited for the right shot?

Photographer did indeed

Without the facts surrounding his death, this behavior may seem surprising. But Carter received heaps of criticism for his actions. While in Sudan, near the village of Ayod, Carter found a small, emaciated toddler struggling to make her way to the food station. When she stopped to rest, a vulture landed nearby with his eyes on the little girl. Carter took twenty minutes to take the photo, wanting the best shot possible, before chasing the bird away.

From here
That food centre was 100 yards from where the picture was taken btw.

snubbleste

Remember a few months back when a newspaper printed a picture of a dead person in a body bag? http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/06/17/stark-3/
https://twitter.com/paulgaillimh/status/611095478827118592

Where are all the outraged people when newspapers prints this one?

AudreyHepburn

tonycascarino wrote: »

It's a sad image of the boy but there isn't a chance in hell we should allow a mass wave of 'refugees' into this country. Why didn't they stay in the first peaceful country they reached & claim asylum there? Because the majority are not really 'refugees' but young single male chancers/economic migrants with possibly an ISIS member or two among them. Europe has gone too soft & too naive.

Scary attitude there.

I hope you never end up in such dire circumstances as these people

lawred2

snubbleste wrote: »

Remember a few months back when a newspaper printed a picture of a dead person in a body bag? http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/06/17/stark-3/
https://twitter.com/paulgaillimh/status/611095478827118592

Where are all the outraged people when newspapers prints this one?

great point you're making there

BattleCorp

tomwaterford wrote: »

If anything...train them up to go back to fight Isis

America trained Osama Bin Laden to go fight the Russians. See how that turned out.

tonycascarino

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Scary attitude there.

I hope you never end up in such dire circumstances as these people

There is absolutely nothing scary about what I said. Just not a completely naive fool as to what's happening. Is my attitude scary because it differs from your opinion? Sure there are genuine refugees but there are also many 'refugees' chancing their arm.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

But you are now contradicting what you said earlier when you said it was staged. Are you now saying the child and vulture really happened to be there, he just waited for the right shot?

Can you not grasp the definition of the word "staged" as in contrived for a desired impression?

What is it like up on that big white horse?

snubbleste

Dunno if anyone heard Brendan Howlin on Newstalk earlier, but he essentially said that Ireland would be looking to harbour more migrants, and a proportionate number in relation to our size in the EU.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Can you not grasp the definition of the word "staged" as in contrived for a desired impression?

What is it like up on that big white horse?

But it's not staged at all. You know staged, from the word stage, as in acted, fake, not real.

You were saying child was there, vulture was there, nothing was staged, he simply waited. Or do you think all photojournalism is about guys with cameras rushing around and snapping the first scene they see?

Not sure what your comment about a horse is about.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

But it's not staged at all. You know staged, from the word stage, as in acted, fake, not real.

You were saying child was there, vulture was there, nothing was staged, he simply waited. Or do you think all photojournalism is about guys with cameras rushing around and snapping the first scene they see?

Not sure what your comment about a horse is about.

It's staged in the sense that he had to wait for the vulture to get to an area where you can't see the food station in the background. It's not a true representation of what is actually happening.

Admittedly, it is a devastating photo but it does not tell the full story.

In relation to the boy at the beginning of this thread. It is grim, poor ****er. Hope he is at peace now.

Zillah

snubbleste wrote: »

Remember a few months back when a newspaper printed a picture of a dead person in a body bag? http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/06/17/stark-3/
https://twitter.com/paulgaillimh/status/611095478827118592

Where are all the outraged people when newspapers prints this one?

One is crass sensationalism about a tragedy that has already happened, the other is forcing the world to acknowledge the horror of an on-going tragedy that we could make better if we choose to.

If you actually can't grasp the difference, that's baffling and alarming.

gandalf

Deleted User wrote: »

It's staged in the sense that he had to wait for the vulture to get to an area where you can't see the food station in the background. It's not a true representation of what is actually happening.

Admittedly, it is a devastating photo but it does not tell the full story.

From my opinion that is not staged, it is framed. If the photographer wasn't there the kid and the vulture would still have been there. And as described the photographer eventually ran off the vulture.

I think it represented the story of what was going on there though.

I'd call it staged if the photographer brought a vulture with him to get into the shot.

In relation to the boy at the beginning of this thread. It is grim, poor ****er. Hope he is at peace now.

Agreed as a father that was a difficult image to see!

JustTheOne

Fg will be once again blamed for letting more in even though there is a housing crisis.

Little do people know Sinn Fein and the left's have said we should open our borders to as many as possible.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

It's staged in the sense that he had to wait for the vulture to get to an area where you can't see the food station in the background. It's not a true representation of what is actually happening.

Admittedly, it is a devastating photo but it does not tell the full story.

In relation to the boy at the beginning of this thread. It is grim, poor ****er. Hope he is at peace now.

I'm not sure we fully agree on the word staged or whether it was a true representation of what was happening or told the story.

But take your last paragraph and fully agree. Tbh my initial reaction was that you were suggesting this photo was staged.

[Deleted User]

JustTheOne wrote: »

Little do people know Sinn Fein and the left's have said we should open our borders to as many as possible.

I can't stand Sinn Fein and now you are making me consider voting for them.

Hannibal Smith

Poor little guy. The 71 people in the truck was horrendous enough. But seeing that little guy in his shorts and t shirt...like any other kid...its just very sad.

conorhal

snubbleste wrote: »

Dunno if anyone heard Brendan Howlin on Newstalk earlier, but he essentially said that Ireland would be looking to harbour more migrants, and a proportionate number in relation to our size in the EU.

I don't suppose there's any chance he might consult the Irish people about this? Otherswise he can start by housing them in his own gaff.

Onward Labour towards your electoral suicide!

Boring username

Naturally, any discussion revolving around the picture of a dead child is going to result in strong emotional responses, often at the expense of rational and balanced thinking. Every death is a tragedy, and I think it is fair to say that this picture is being used to deliberately provoke an emotional response, and is being used to frame the debate.

The reality is that the Schengen agreement has all but collapsed in Europe now, and law and order is under severe strain in train stations in Hungary, and Calais, not to mind refugee centres and processing stations. Any response by the authorities is receiving criticism, no matter what they do. The human rights brigade were up in arms yet again when Hungarian authorities resorted to writing processing numbers on migrants in an attempt to manage the situation. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3219069/The-broken-Hungarian-official-says-3-000-migrants-entering-country-DAY-closure-Budapest-station-prompts-angry-clashes-police.html

Bear in mind that ISIS has promised to flood Europe with fighters disguised as migrants and you've got the mother of all political storms.

http://news.sky.com/story/1545899/mi...-station-opens

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-34136615

Incidentally, reports are also filtering through that Russian troops have been spotted fighting in support of Syrian troops:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...an-rebels.html

What an utter mess this is descending into. Regardless of how you think this situation should be handled, it is clear now that the only thing that can even begin to stabilise this situation (never mind resolve it) is a massive, coordinated response from the Eurozone countries, and probably the UN too.

A Marshall Plan 2 is needed now. This crisis isn't going away any time soon, and it looks increasingly likely that military/peacekeeper action will be needed eventually.

Edit: It is also worth bearing in mind that the mass, uncontrolled immigration is playing right into the hands of the far right all across Europe. Be very careful of the decisions you make, there could be long term unforeseen consequences.

JustTheOne

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I can't stand Sinn Fein and now you are making me consider voting for them.

I know mad isn't it. I will never vote for them but I'm changing my opinion on the refugee crisis.

JustTheOne

conorhal wrote: »

I don't suppose there's any chance he might consult the Irish people about this? Otherswise he can start by housing them in his own gaff.

Onward Labour towards your electoral suicide!

Do you think Sinn Fein or the left's will put an end to taking in more?

They will increase it ten fold.

Careful what you wish for.

Neyite

gandalf wrote: »

Unfortunately it is in our DNA to turn our backs.

This is the policy statement from the Dept of Justice in 1948 explaining why were weren't taking Jewish refugees from Europe.

80,000 economic migrants a year since 2008 left Ireland for a better life in another country. A better life for them, for their future, for their families. But we are not ok with other people coming to our country to do the same - some might be genuine economic migrants, but most are fleeing dire circumstances we could only imagine.

I tucked my child of the same age as that little boy up in his warm big bed last night when that father was trying to figure out how to bury his. He'd had a very busy day at creche, then went to the park, had a warm bath, a warm dinner and had a good nights sleep.

I don't have a spare room. I don't have a lot of money either. I couldn't house a family but I would willingly sign up to house a child or even two along the lines of the wartime Kindertransport measures. Then, when their homeland settles down - maybe with the help of the EU, or when their parents have secured suitable visas for themselves, they can go on their way to join them. It's not perfect, and its not a solution to the whole crisis, but its something I would do to help.

whisky_galore

Love nor Money wrote: »

I never thought I'd say this but ISIS needs to be attacked with boots on the ground. I know it's harder with a non-conventional nation as your enemy but whatever about creating a faceless enemy, there is nothing we can do about that. But if ISIS can take control of whole areas then we have a short term choice: genocide or migrants. And a long term choice: defeat ISIS as a quasi-nation or watch it grow.

This. Unstable nations are the root cause.

But no Western nation is going to actually get stuck into ISIS, at least not directly, what with all their earlier adventures in Middle Eastern sandpits having unintended consequences.

ComfortKid

RTE reporting just now that hundreds of "refugees" are laying on the train tracks in protest at being brought to Refugee camps in Hungary.

Biffo The Bare

Not so sure about this one.
Why isn't anybody blaming the parents of those children? It is irresponsible for any adult to put children on those boats. They weren't fleeing ISIS. They set sail from Turkey. There was no need for those parents to subject their children to that risk.

[Deleted User]

conorhal wrote: »

I don't suppose there's any chance he might consult the Irish people about this? Otherswise he can start by housing them in his own gaff.

Onward Labour towards your electoral suicide!

I don't get the "you put them up" line.

Care about the lack of respite services? Well you put them up.

Care about the homeless? Well you put them up.

Care about children fleeing a conflict? Well you put them up.

Nodin

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Not so sure about this one.
Why isn't anybody blaming the parents of those children? It is irresponsible for any adult to put children on those boats. They weren't fleeing ISIS. They set sail from Turkey. There was no need for those parents to subject their children to that risk.

They're Kurdish.

[Deleted User]

ComfortKid wrote: »

RTE reporting just now that hundreds of "refugees" are laying on the train tracks in protest at being brought to Refugee camps in Hungary.

It was one father who dragged his wife and baby onto the tracks. Reporter with Sky news is there.

That father put his own baby in danger. The Hungarian authorities aren't harming them but just because he wasn't getting his own way, this is what he done.

FelineOverLord

I heard Andy Burnham speaking on Sky news and saying that refugees should be brought over from the refugee camps on the Syrian borders as it does away with people traffickers. I agree with him and I think it's the most sensible suggestion I've heard so far. That poor child and his brother are dead because their parents paid people traffickers. Life in refugee camps must be hellish, but at least they're alive.

professore

Deleted User wrote: »

I's a bit messed up that Saudi Arabia funds so much terrorism and refuses to help refugees and yet we do so much business with Saudi Arabis, we let them into our colleges each year also.

This is on a side note but how come all the Saudis in our college are always men? Are colleges in Ireland also putting up with Saudis sexism?

Do you drive a non electric car or use any plastic goods? Then you are also doing business with the Saudis.

conorhal

FelineOverLord wrote: »

I heard Andy Burnham speaking on Sky news and saying that refugees should be brought over from the refugee camps on the Syrian borders as it does away with people traffickers. I agree with him and I think it's the most sensible suggestion I've heard so far. That poor child and his brother are dead because their parents paid people traffickers. Life in refugee camps must be hellish, but at least they're alive.

These people bypass refugee camps, in fact the actively avoid them to ensure that they are not documented on their econimic migration west. What makes you think accepting people fome refugee camps will make a dent in the numbers crossing the Med?

The only possible way that it would, would be to refuse anybody crossing illegally and send them back for processing at UN regugee centers. Are you proposing that option?