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I know most of us don't believe in an afterlife, but....

SharpshooterTom

Does anyone find the concept of having no afterlife, i.e. absolutely nothing at the end, difficult to comprehend?

What I mean by that is, have you ever found the concept of dying and that just being that difficult to come to terms with at any point in your life?

Personally I've never really had a problem with the idea of being non existent after I die as I couldn't fathom living forever, however I do find this difficult when we grieve for others or lose family members.

Take the shooting incident in Virginia yesterday, I've seen a few interviews of the father of the 24 year old girl who was killed, her boyfriend, the pair of them coming close to tears, but holding up very well. But then I was thinking, they're never going to see her again are they? In my belief she doesn't exist period in any form no longer, she's gone completely forever (as has the cameraman with his grieving fiancé), her father will never physically be with her ever again. Even though they are strangers miles away thinking about scenarios like that breaks my heart looking at their photos on the news etc. This is where I suppose my beliefs come into conflict with personal tragedies, and the concept of having no afterlife its not something I deal with very well at these times. I would have absolutely no coping mechanism in that situation being her father, it would be impossible for me, I couldn't do it.

I know this is a pretty morbid thread and was a bit wary of starting it because I didn't want to evoke painful memories of forum members who have lost loved ones (particularly spouses and children) as I'm sure some of you have, but at the same time I do want to talk about it was hoping to have a respectful and decent conversation (if that's ok).

Like I say its strange when it comes to me, I personally don't care about my (non) existence when I die, but every time I see young people die with lots of potential and plenty ahead of them and their families grieve, the afterlife stuff comes into my head and the concept just rips me up. Its awful.

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Chet T16

Having nothing after death makes what you have now more valuable. How can you appreciate what you have now if you think something better comes after.

NachoBusiness

jimgoose wrote: »

Eckhart Tolle had the right of it:

"Death is not the opposite of life. Life has no opposite. The opposite of death is birth. Life is eternal."

Sounds like he was having a bit of a breakdown tbf.

Birneybau

DanielODonnell wrote: »

God save us from this progressive atheist Ireland, I would rather live in Protestant deep south USA than alongside atheists

Sure, that's where your fans live. Go!

One eyed Jack

DanielODonnell wrote: »

God save us from this progressive atheist Ireland, I would rather live in Protestant deep south USA than alongside atheists

Seriously, was that necessary?

I'm a religious person, and even I can appreciate when someone is able to express their thoughts so well, regardless of whether they having faith in an afterlife or not.

People who are religious get a bad enough rep around here without you giving anyone extra ammunition!

DanielODonnell

I don't have to sit back and read comments such as dead people being "dirt in the ground", it is ridiculous caper

Chucken

DanielODonnell wrote: »

I don't have to sit back and read comments such as dead people being "dirt in the ground", it is ridiculous caper

Its also a fact.

kylith

Well, how else would you describe their body?

Berserker

kylith wrote: »

Every night you go to sleep and, most of the time, it's suddenly tomorrow morning and you wake up. Death is like being asleep; you close your eyes and off you go, but there's no tomorrow morning to wake up to. But that's ok, you'll never know about it so it won't bother you.

The analogy of going to sleep and never waking up is what some lucky people experience when they die. If you work or know anyone who works in a caring or medical capacity then you will know that death is a very different experience for many people.

kylith

Berserker wrote: »

The analogy of going to sleep and never waking up is what some lucky people experience when they die. If you work or know of anyone who works in a caring or medical capacity then you will know that death is a very different experience for many people.

The process of dying is different to death though. All we can hope for with that is that it'll be quick and painless; which is why I support assisted suicide.

I remember seeing my grandmother in her last days. For years I felt guilty that I didn't cry when she died but it was simply that her being gone was nowhere near as bad as seeing what happened to her in the run-up to that.

umop apisdn

kylith wrote: »

The process of dying is different to death though. All we can hope for with that is that it'll be quick and painless; which is why I support assisted suicide.

I remember seeing my grandmother in her last days. For years I felt guilty that I didn't cry when she died but it was simply that her being gone was nowhere near as bad as seeing what happened to her in the run-up to that.

She should have done the decent thing instead of being a burden on you, and more importantly, the taxpayer.

Poster banned

Gilbert Grape

Dmt has the answer

Sand

I can see how belief in an afterlife is a comforting crutch to someone who is grieving. Someone they love has been taken from them, they will never see or talk to them again: its a great comfort to pretend they will see and talk to them again in the next life. I'd never challenge that if it helps people though a tough time.

But no, I don't find the absence of an afterlife difficult to comprehend. Lets face it, if life has a start and and end, its is precious. You shouldn't waste it. You should try to live the best life you can for as long as you can because you wont get a do over.

On the other hand, if there is an afterlife and its cool and fun, and all our family and friends are there waiting to hang out with us again then what are we doing wasting time here? That's what's difficult to comprehend. Might as jump in front of a train tomorrow and join the great party in the sky. Sure beats the hell out of growing old. Ultimately a belief in an afterlife is rooted in some inhuman thinking which prioritises concepts and ideas over actual people.

kylith

umop apisdn wrote: »

She should have done the decent thing instead of being a burden on you, and more importantly, the taxpayer.

She should have had the option to forego the pain and indignity.

One eyed Jack

Sand wrote: »

I can see how belief in an afterlife is a comforting crutch to someone who is grieving. Someone they love has been taken from them, they will never see or talk to them again: its a great comfort to pretend they will see and talk to them again in the next life. I'd never challenge that if it helps people though a tough time.

But no, I don't find the absence of an afterlife difficult to comprehend. Lets face it, if life has a start and and end, its is precious. You shouldn't waste it. You should try to live the best life you can for as long as you can because you wont get a do over.

On the other hand, if there is an afterlife and its cool and fun, and all our family and friends are there waiting to hang out with us again then what are we doing wasting time here? That's what's difficult to comprehend. Might as jump in front of a train tomorrow and join the great party in the sky. Sure beats the hell out of growing old. Ultimately a belief in an afterlife is rooted in some inhuman thinking which prioritises concepts and ideas over actual people.

Wouldn't that make it human thinking then, seeing as it's so far only humans who have expressed a belief in some form of life after death and reincarnation and so on?

I don't agree that it's the kind of thinking that priorities concepts and ideas over people at all either tbh, as the very idea is based upon people living eternal life, merely transitioning from one realm to another.

beks101

DanielODonnell wrote: »

I don't have to sit back and read comments such as dead people being "dirt in the ground", it is ridiculous caper

Indeed you don't, you can simply choose not to click into a thread titled 'I know most of us don't believe in an afterlife, but..."

Sand

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Wouldn't that make it human thinking then, seeing as it's so far only humans who have expressed a belief in some form of life after death and reincarnation and so on?

I don't agree that it's the kind of thinking that priorities concepts and ideas over people at all either tbh, as the very idea is based upon people living eternal life, merely transitioning from one realm to another.

I don't think we can be sure that various animals don't also have a belief in an afterlife. There is nothing inherently human about believing things which aren't true - dogs in front of a mirrors will believe they are being threatened by some other dog for example.

Its a way of thinking that discounts and devalues human life. What is a death or a tragedy if it merely means the dead have moved onto another realm which is so much better than this life? Why aren't funerals a celebration if that's really true? Its rooted in a dangerous, inhuman belief system that prioritises the objectives, goals and ruleset of an entirely imaginary and non-human entity and presumes those objectives and ruleset overtake any other human concern.

Luckily, the worst excesses (check out IS for example, who are true believers) are by and large tempered by the human experience and a lack of *true* belief.

ToddyDoody

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Does anyone find the concept of having no afterlife, i.e. absolutely nothing at the end, difficult to comprehend?

Not particularly - I've cast off all that religious superstition stuff.
However, with nothing to believe in, I'd argue that life in the 21st century is a ****ty meaningless void, no matter how happy you're forced to be about it.

well spoken man

I for one do not believe in fairy tales..Santa..Easter bunny. God...

OiL RiG

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Not particularly - I've cast off all that religious superstition stuff.
However, with nothing to believe in, I'd argue that life in the 21st century is a ****ty meaningless void, no matter how happy you're forced to be about it.

Personally, I find it far more meaningful to know that this life is it. Your consciousness, your body, and your experiences all seem much more significant when you stop thinking of life as a test followed by a big reunion party. It may not be comforting in times of grief, despair, or even approaching death yourself, but this is all you got, and it's better than the alternative.

I have no trouble not believing in an afterlife. I think of what we believe happens to ants, mice, and other animals when they die: they simply cease to be. We're no different.

One eyed Jack

Sand wrote: »

I don't think we can be sure that various animals don't also have a belief in an afterlife. There is nothing inherently human about believing things which aren't true - dogs in front of a mirrors will believe they are being threatened by some other dog for example.

Its a way of thinking that discounts and devalues human life. What is a death or a tragedy if it merely means the dead have moved onto another realm which is so much better than this life? Why aren't funerals a celebration if that's really true? Its rooted in a dangerous, inhuman belief system that prioritises the objectives, goals and ruleset of an entirely imaginary and non-human entity and presumes those objectives and ruleset overtake any other human concern.

Luckily, the worst excesses (check out IS for example, who are true believers) are by and large tempered by the human experience and a lack of *true* belief.

There it is again! Humans invented the concept of an afterlife, so that's why I suggested that far from inhuman the idea of an afterlife is actually unique to human beings, irrational and all as it is. Human beings aren't known for being particularly rational though, but that again goes to show the way the vast majority of human beings actually think, as opposed to showing any evidence that human beings are inherently rational. We really aren't.

As for the idea that way of thinking discounts and devalues human life, well that depends a lot upon perspective really. I gather you're not too hung up on the idea as I'm thinking you're picturing the atmosphere at a typical Irish Roman Catholic funeral, but there are other religions which their customs are much more akin to a festive celebratory event than the way we do things in this country.

Death is simply what the person makes of it, some will as you said earlier see the idea of an afterlife as a comfort, and some people will see it as yet another wacky irrational notion about spirituality.

I don't know too many people who would see it quite the way you do really tbh. My rational and scientific mind understands that biological decomposition is an obvious inevitability, but the completely and admittedly irrational part of me draws solace from the idea of an afterlife. Irrational? Completely. But that is what it is to be a human being. I understand of course that other people's opinions will differ, which is why I don't usually share my own personal perspective on the idea of death and an afterlife and so on.

[Deleted User]

Actually, no, I don't have a problem with the idea of there being nothing at the end. I went under general anaesthetic a few years ago, and I remember my body fighting against it, as my breathing slowed down, for a brief split second, then nothing, until I woke up. I don't have a problem with death being like this - at least that's the type of death everyone hopes for.

My father died, a year ago on Sunday, and I don't have a problem with thinking (knowing) that my father disappeared that day, and we wont ever meet again. I know that gives some people much comfort, but to me, well it's just fact and it doesn't bother me. In fact I find it easier to grieve knowing that this is an end. No false hope to cling to in desperation.

Chucken

umop apisdn wrote: »

She should have done the decent thing instead of being a burden on you, and more importantly, the taxpayer.

Oh? Have you a particular age you would like people to ''do the decent thing''?

Horrible thing to say.

KERSPLAT!

Mod

umop apisdn is banned now so we'll just move on now, cheers.

Bubbaclaus

Life after death feels the same as life felt before you were born.

Sam Kade

jimgoose wrote: »

In the wise words of Bill "Clint Eastwood" Munny, it's a hell of a thing killin' a man.

When Clint was asked in an interview if he believed in an afterlife he replied I'm not sure but I'm in no hurry to find out

Sam Kade

kylith wrote: »

Every night you go to sleep and, most of the time, it's suddenly tomorrow morning and you wake up. Death is like being asleep; you close your eyes and off you go, but there's no tomorrow morning to wake up to. But that's ok, you'll never know about it so it won't bother you.

So you can have dreams while dead :rolleyes:

Arytonblue

What is it that actually makes us so special to any other living organism in that after we die we pass onto some other life? Do plants and insects get this 'reward'? We're just flesh and bone OP, believing that the end of this life is not the end, IMO, makes it less special than it truly is. Most humans for the majority of time lived short, harsh and difficult lives, war, famine and disease made sure of this. Of course they were going to believe that there lied something better beyond death. Since the beginning of the 20th century this really began changing for most of us and in today's society it's quite possible for most people to live long, fulfilling and rewarding lives. As Tony Soprano says, each day is a gift and I try not to take it for granted, cherishing the moments I have with those I care about. True words to live by I say.

_Brian

I think like others have posted.. The process of how you die is probably more terrifying than being dead and there being no afterlife.. One would presume its like before you were born, just nothing..

I've been present when a few relatives have died, some went off peacefully apparently talking to long dead siblings at the end... But for others it was more distressing both on them and those with them, fighting death while feeling it coming closer, struggling for every breath right to the end..

I've said before though.. The one thing that absolutely terrifies me is leaving my wife and children. My kids are young and like most parents I live for every second we spend together... the thought of that not being so just scares me, I lost my father near 10 years ago and still dreadfully miss his company, phonecalls, his advice no matter if asked for or not..

Muir

I don't believe in an afterlife. I've also had a lot of loss in my family, tomorrow is the anniversary of a close relative who died quite young. I remember another person in my family being really angry at me when they found out I didn't believe in anything because that meant that I didn't believe the relative was in heaven, she was just in a hole in the ground. I think I just ignore that part. If I get the smell of her favourite flower or see butterflies in the garden where we used to play I think that's her saying hello, even though I don't actually believe in anything like that at the same time. That may make absolutely no sense to anyone else though!

jimgoose

Sam Kade wrote: »

So you can have dreams while dead :rolleyes:

Works for Cthulhu, by all accounts.