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New Van Faulty

[Deleted User]

I bought a new FORD TRANSIT COURIER VAN (Diesel 1.5) in January 2015. Sometime after I thought it might be chugging a bit but it was almost imperceptable. A couple of months later it got much worse and I was definite about it. I brought it back to the garage.Most of the time it happened at about 80 or 90 Kph. They took it for a couple of days but all they did was drive it a small bit and stick it on a diagnostic machine which showed up no faults. When the chugging/juddering was occurring there was no warning lights showing and all fluids were at proper levels. i.e. nothing to indicate any problem.

The next time it happened it was very bad, so bad in fact it seemed like you were driving over the painted lines in front of a roundabout, (you know.. the ones to slow you down), the steering wheel was vibrating back and forth like mad so I had no choice but to pull into the hard shoulder on the motorway and switch off the engine and check everything. Nothing seemed out of order (other than the crazy juddering) so I restarted the engine and drove off as normal without a problem. Van went back to the garage again.

They just plugged it into the diagnostic machine,drove it a little bit, rang me and told me nothing found and to come collect my van. I said no I wouldn't collect it, that they needed to drive it a good bit as the problem was occurring very intermittently so they hung onto it for another couple of days and drove it a good bit but found no problem (approx 400 Kms which was no problem to me as I wanted to find out what was wrong however I was miffed when I realised that afterwards they hadn't refilled it with diesel).

Van back with me again and the juddering/chugging has reduced from long 10 second intervals of chugging/juddering to single strong "chugs". No big problem but not what you want from a brand new van.
The van is now back in the garage for the fifth time and they are doing nothing other than plugging it into a diagnostic machine and giving it short drives. As the problem is so intermittent when it occurs I think this will turn up nothing, at least the odds are against a correct diagnosis from this approach as the problem may occur roughly every five or six days or longer, sometimes it doesn't happen for a couple of weeks.

I explained that surely by this stage they should be stripping out injectors etc. etc. to see if they can find out where the fault is.
According to the garage Ford Warranty will not allow them to do anything other than drive it or hook it up to a diagnostic machine until a fault is found. I said that that was crazy because if there is a fault and you guys are driving the van occasionally and the diagnostic machine reports nothing then we are never going to find it. I said that if that were the case then the Ford Warranty is not worth the paper it is written on. i.e. it is useless because the warranty doesn't cover looking further for the fault. (i.e. the "I don't care if you can see it on the shelf behind me, if the computer says we don't have one we don't have one" approach).

Each time the van goes back I have to give a credit card for a deposit to enterprise rentals and then Ford Warranty covers van hire of a Fiat Doblo from enterprise rentals but the whole mullarkey is getting annoying at this stage.
After previously owning two Mondeo's and a couple of Fiesta's this is the last Ford coming into our houshold. I bought the van new so as not to have any problems and I think I would have been better off second hand with a back street warranty from a grease pit garage rather than the warranty with the new faulty FORD TRANSIT COURIER VAN.

One thing suggested was it might be the DPF. I didn't think the DPF would cause this very strong juddering but anyway just to be sure I drove it for 40 kilometers on the motorway at 120 Kph and the following day it was juddering/chugging so I guess that rules out the DPF being the root cause, which I didn't think it was anyway. Bad fuel was another straw they grasped at but I explained I always fill from the same reputable fuel stations.

I am thinking of taking the van to a third party for fault diagnosis if this continues for much longer and then trying to reclaim any expense from Ford. I believe I must allow Ford and the dealership reasonable time to find out what is wrong but I think at this stage we are beyond reasonable. I'm also unsure if I could afford the expense of getting a third party involved.

Has anyone any experience of trying to resolve a similiar issue? If so any advice gratefully recieved. Thanks in advance.

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[Deleted User]

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why on earth do you think this is a good idea? No garage is going to spend hundreds of euro stripping down an engine for a fault that has never once happened for them, and in terms of a garage 400kms is certainly a good enough effort to let that fault actually happen.

Seriously, say they remove the injectors, send them to diesel services for testing, then refit the injectors and nothing has changed, then who is paying the bill for the injector testing? Ford certainly won't and nor should they.

Do not do this, you will not get any third party expenses paid under any circumstances. Please note however that any Ford garage can work at any Ford vehicle under warranty, if you think the dealer isn't doing enough you can go to another one. Personally, I don't think it will make a difference. If the fault has never happened then there is next to nothing any garage can do about it, you cannot fix a fault that isn't happening for you. There is no magic button that a different dealer can press to tell them what is going on.

Speaking in general terms, Ford as a manufacturer are an awful company with regards to warranty. They are extremely tight on what a dealer can or can't do and are a nightmare to reclaim costs from. I know it is crap to have an issue like this but I have some sympathy for the dealer as well. They have a fault that after hundreds of kms still has never occurred for them and in all likelihood they are not getting paid for any of the work they have done so far. Now the customer is getting angry, but what exactly do you think they should do? You cannot simply spend thousands of euros replacing parts willy nilly for a fault that is not there.

BTW I never mentioned sending them (injectors) out for testing, you pulled that out of thin air. You are missing the point, they haven't even looked under the hood for anything obvious. It may be as simple as a loose connection somewhere, something not seated or mated correctly or a multitude of simple little things any half decent mechanic could pick up on........ who mentioned sending the injectors off to have them tested, certainly they could lift the bonnet and look at the things and various other parts besides...... perhaps lifting the bonnet and actually looking at an engine and its constituent parts is more expensive than I at first imagined.............Thats whats bl**%y killing me, they couldn't even be bothered taking a look under the hood......... Acceptable, I think not...... There is always the possibility that Ford don't have a half decent mechanic though, I didn't consider that.

Henry Ford III

Intermitent faults are a pain. From a dealers perspective they can attempt to diagnose but in the absense of any symptoms it's impossible to even identify what the issue might be.

mickdw

I'd get solicitor, write to dealer recording fault reported, number of visits to garage, the fact that no repair had been carried etc.
I'm sure solicitor can direct you as to best course of action re rejecting van or attempting to recover 3rd party costs for diagnostic etc

CIP4

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Intermitent faults are a pain. From a dealers perspective they can attempt to diagnose but in the absense of any symptoms it's impossible to even identify what the issue might be.

Well infairness the op should either get a brand new replacement van and let them fix his current one and sell it on or he should get a long term loan of one until they can sort the issue by having his van for as long as it takes to fix. No matter what way you look at it intermittent fault or not that means the van has not been built perfectly if it has a fault regardless of how big or small it is still a fault in something that is brand new under warranty that means it should be fords problem not the ops and it should be made as least inconvienent as possible for the op not the way it is now where the dealer sticks their head in the sand and hopes the op eventually won't come back what kind of customer service is that.

Op deal with ford directly and give them a deadline and if they don't sort it get a solicitor involved as suggested or start going to the papers, consumer show, joe Duffy and whatever else you can think off. Your not the first person I've heard of to have an issue with the new ford commercial range either although at least the person I heard of got a brand new replacement van.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, I don't think it will make a difference. If the fault has never happened then there is next to nothing any garage can do about it, you cannot fix a fault that isn't happening for you. There is no magic button that a different dealer can press to tell them what is going on.

Absurd statement. There is a fault inherent in the product (i.e. vehicle). It is not the customers problem how much it costs to find, fix and repair nor the customers problem who (dealer or Ford) meets the costs necessary to fix it.

It is of course correct that neither Ford nor the dealership want to do this however my wants for a properly functioning vehicle as per what was sold to me superceeds Ford or the dealers greed or laziness.

Faulty goods are faulty goods full stop. I imagine if you bought a faulty P.C. and couldn't get a replacement then if the shop told you it was too expensive to take it apart and look for what is causing the fault and by the way could you please just go away and accept that you have been sold a faulty product and leave us alone....... Acceptable ! I think not.

You need to have a good look at the sale of goods act and the various consumer protection legislation just as I am now doing.

I am wary of getting solicitors involved at this stage but no doubt any sensible common sense advice would run totally counter to your illogical argument, i.e. the dealer or Ford couldn't be bothered because it involves expense so please be happy with a faulty vehicle........

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh, by the way I thought it might be a good idea if the garage had a look to find out what is causing the problem and where the fault in the vehicle is....... No one wants to be wandering back and forth to a dealership going through a pile of hassle and tripe for no reason other than the fun of it.

I don't expect them to have a magic button but if you manufacture a vehicle you should really have the expertise to pull it apart and find whats broken, but then that's me. I'm silly that way. I think that people who make things should be able to fix the broken ones they make.............

Magic button, could you get more disparaging if you tried...........

Deleted User wrote: »

It was juddering so badly I thought Iwas driving a broken juggernaut...... no way you could carry on without pulling in, and hey presto, each time it drives off again fine. It's a right pain....

Deleted User wrote: »

I have formally written looking for a replacement van for the reason that the dealership couldn't or wouldn't be bothered looking effectively and proactively to find the fault and I didn't pay to buy a faulty van..... I do not like having to pull off the motorway into the hard shoulder when things are going belly up with it nor does her indoors...... We shall see but needless to say I am not a happy camper with Ford so unfortunately this will be the last Ford in the Garden which is a shame as I always used to like the various Fords but if this is the rigamarole involved with them I think I'll stick to buying second hand in future. Should things not pan out it will mean that a new car warranty is, in many instances useless. Scary really to think you buy new but it just may not be worth the premium.

Deleted User wrote: »

BTW I never mentioned sending them (injectors) out for testing, you pulled that out of thin air. You are missing the point, they haven't even looked under the hood for anything obvious. It may be as simple as a loose connection somewhere, something not seated or mated correctly or a multitude of simple little things any half decent mechanic could pick up on........ who mentioned sending the injectors off to have them tested, certainly they could lift the bonnet and look at the things and various other parts besides...... perhaps lifting the bonnet and actually looking at an engine and its constituent parts is more expensive than I at first imagined.............Thats whats bl**%y killing me, they couldn't even be bothered taking a look under the hood......... Acceptable, I think not...... There is always the possibility that Ford don't have a half decent mechanic though, I didn't consider that.

I could respond to some of your points, after all, I do handle cases like this for a living and I could tell you exactly what is going to happen. But really whats the point, any time the customer starts bleating about new vans you are just into Joe Duffy territory and a waste of time.

I think you should just go ahead, go to a solicitor and tell him you want a new van. Sure, that is very unlikely to ever happen but hey, worth a try. For my part, I have this faulty laptop that I'm going to bring to PC World. Sure, its working fine but that doesn't matter, I want them to pull it apart and then give me a new one anyway. Good luck with your van!

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

BTW I never mentioned sending them (injectors) out for testing, you pulled that out of thin air. You are missing the point, they haven't even looked under the hood for anything obvious. It may be as simple as a loose connection somewhere, something not seated or mated correctly or a multitude of simple little things any half decent mechanic could pick up on........ who mentioned sending the injectors off to have them tested, certainly they could lift the bonnet and look at the things and various other parts besides...... perhaps lifting the bonnet and actually looking at an engine and its constituent parts is more expensive than I at first imagined.............Thats whats bl**%y killing me, they couldn't even be bothered taking a look under the hood......... Acceptable, I think not...... There is always the possibility that Ford don't have a half decent mechanic though, I didn't consider that.

And btw, you are the one that said they should strip out the injectors.

And as any half decent mechanic knows, if you have a possible but intermittent fuel fault and you have the injectors removed then the best course of action is to have them professionally tested. Unless you think a mechanic can tell if theres a fault just by looking at them?

Take the injectors out, put them back in and see if that works, right?

[Deleted User]

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Intermitent faults are a pain. From a dealers perspective they can attempt to diagnose but in the absense of any symptoms it's impossible to even identify what the issue might be.

Yep, I don't disagree however I still think a good once over visual inspection throughout the engine and engine bay would be in order before a fourth visit....

[Deleted User]

bucketybuck wrote: »

I could respond to some of your points, after all, I do handle cases like this for a living and I could tell you exactly what is going to happen. But really whats the point, any time the customer starts bleating about new vans you are just into Joe Duffy territory and a waste of time.

I think you should just go ahead, go to a solicitor and tell him you want a new van. Sure, that is very unlikely to ever happen but hey, worth a try. For my part, I have this faulty laptop that I'm going to bring to PC World. Sure, its working fine but that doesn't matter, I want them to pull it apart and then give me a new one anyway. Good luck with your van!

Yep, you don't like anyone pointing out the obvious to you do you kid..... I guess you know it all buddie................ Here's some advice for you, don't give advice......it's terrible. And jumping the gun again as usual I see....................

[Deleted User]

bucketybuck wrote: »

And btw, you are the one that said they should strip out the injectors.

And as any half decent mechanic knows, if you have a possible but intermittent fuel fault and you have the injectors removed then the best course of action is to have them professionally tested. Unless you think a mechanic can tell if theres a fault just by looking at them?

Take the injectors out, put them back in and see if that works, right?

Correct, thats what I said. Ive taken out injectors myself and put them back properly. A five year old could do it and look them over for anything obvious. I never mentioned anything about having them sent off for testing... you did but you handle cases like this for a living so I guess most of your clients end up out of pocket if you can't even remember what you said 2 seconds ago..... Unfortunately according to warranty if I touch anything my extremely limited warranty (for what use it is) is null and void.... I assume a half competent mechanic would look at the connections, lines and injectors themselves as anything at all could be damaged or loose.....guess not according to your good self. And I believe you, because all they seem to be able to do is plug the vehicle into a diagnostic machine...... Ford eh....

[Deleted User]

bucketybuck wrote: »

I could respond to some of your points, after all, I do handle cases like this for a living and I could tell you exactly what is going to happen. But really whats the point, any time the customer starts bleating about new vans you are just into Joe Duffy territory and a waste of time.

I think you should just go ahead, go to a solicitor and tell him you want a new van. Sure, that is very unlikely to ever happen but hey, worth a try. For my part, I have this faulty laptop that I'm going to bring to PC World. Sure, its working fine but that doesn't matter, I want them to pull it apart and then give me a new one anyway. Good luck with your van!

Oh, just out of interest you obviously missed the thread title "New faulty van" and any info posted about the fault, but if you sitting, god knows where, feel that you can arbitrarily decide I am trying to replace a purportedly (according to the dealer) perfectly good working van for another perfectly good working van then god help your clients... End of Buddie, anything further you post I won't reply to, you obviously need help.

[Deleted User]

Thanks everyone who posted.... every little helps.
Hope none of you ever end up with the "Monday" morning car......
Signing off on the thread and thanks again........................................

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks everyone who posted.... every little helps.
Hope none of you ever end up with the "Monday" morning car......
Signing off on the thread and thanks again........................................

Good luck with your van!

I had a nice chat today with the guys in the Ford dealer I used to work for, heard a few very interesting things. But hey, guess I'll say nothing. Don't forget to speak to that solicitor!

mickdw

bucketybuck wrote: »

Good luck with your van!

I had a nice chat today with the guys in the Ford dealer I used to work for, heard a few very interesting things. But hey, guess I'll say nothing. Don't forget to speak to that solicitor!

You suddenly know whats wrong worth the ops van. Good man yourself.

bucketybuck

mickdw wrote: »

You suddenly know whats wrong worth the ops van. Good man yourself.

I have no idea what is wrong with the OP's van, and never said I did.

I do know what I would do in his shoes though. But thankfully I am not in his shoes.