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Terrible places to work - Amazon

Elessar

So the New York Times published an article recently about the abhorrent work practices and treatment of staff at Amazon. I would highly recommend a read - some of the things going on are incredible.

Some choice quotes:

At Amazon, workers are encouraged to tear apart one another’s ideas in meetings, toil long and late (emails arrive past midnight, followed by text messages asking why they were not answered), and held to standards that the company boasts are “unreasonably high. "Amazon is where overachievers go to feel bad about themselves". “When you’re not able to give your absolute all, 80 hours a week, they see it as a major weakness.”

Amazon employees are held accountable for a staggering array of metrics, a process that unfolds in what can be anxiety-provoking sessions called business reviews, held weekly or monthly among various teams. A day or two before the meetings, employees receive printouts, sometimes up to 50 or 60 pages long, several workers said. At the reviews, employees are cold-called and pop-quizzed on any one of those thousands of numbers.

Everyone has access to the "Anytime Feedback Tool," which lets employees criticize or praise their coworkers discretely. The feedback makes it to upper management, and can often be used in Amazon's standard weekly or monthly performance reviews. Employees are also routinely ranked, and managers are forced to fire a certain amount of the lowest-scoring workers every time to fulfill quotas.

Perhaps worst of all is Amazon's approach when its employees need help. The Times has uncovered several cases where workers who were sick, grieving, or otherwise encumbered by the realities of life were pushed out of the company. A woman who had a miscarriage was told to travel on a business trip the day after both her twins were stillborn. Another woman recovering from breast cancer was given poor performance rankings and was warned that she was in danger of losing her job.

Sounds like an absolute nightmare workplace. I value my myself and my self worth too much to work in a place like that. Has anyone ever worked for a similar company here?

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conorhal

Berserker wrote: »

They had these initiates where I was, health and well being, work-life balance and the like, where they would bring in massage therapists or some fruit during lunch in an attempt to show that they really valued you as a employee. However, when an employee got seriously ill, it didn't take long for that façade to slip and the employee was warned about absenteeism and accused of not being "engaged".

That's because 'corporate responsibility' is nothing more then a check box or a PR line in their prospectus.
Many firms take part in the 'great places to work' scheme for example, but few are actually interested in being a great place to work, still they want to put it on their website that they are so they go about gerrymandering the result.
One I know of made the GPW score a metric by which bonuses were measured, so when employees had to rate their work place any criticism would cost you some of your bonus. Thus in the teeth of job cuts, re-orgs and more work for no more money it seemed to the senior management that these conditions were actually making people happier!

One eyed Jack

Brooke Drab Gang wrote: »

Perhaps read the piece you quoted again. Ireland ranked very highly for productivity. The self-deprecation in this country is incredible.

It's not self-depreciation at all. We ranked highly, but we ranked third (which I can easily believe given that five years or so ago would have been the tail end of the Celtic Tiger when unemployment in this country was low and our economy was in a virtual bubble), and giving ourselves a clap on the back for coming third is the reason why Ireland will never come first in terms of efficiency.

FWIW, we rank waaay down in the Global Competitiveness Report, while the US, Germany and Japan are among the top ten, and Switzerland is first!

The Swiss would know all about time management though

Buona Fortuna

yes there wrote: »

Tried to recruit me during the summer but was well are of their working conditions although they did a good job at tempting me. This just confirms it.

You were head hunted?

[Deleted User]

I know a good few people working for Amazon. They seem to like it! I work for an American multinational and like it.

Depends which one it is I guess..

Shenshen

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's not self-depreciation at all. We ranked highly, but we ranked third (which I can easily believe given that five years or so ago would have been the tail end of the Celtic Tiger when unemployment in this country was low and our economy was in a virtual bubble), and giving ourselves a clap on the back for coming third is the reason why Ireland will never come first in terms of efficiency.

FWIW, we rank waaay down in the Global Competitiveness Report, while the US, Germany and Japan are among the top ten, and Switzerland is first!

The Swiss would know all about time management though

As a German, I'm actually very amused by the notion that unions would make a country less efficient - I think there are very, very few countries around with stronger and more meddlesome unions than Germany, and Ireland certainly isn't among these.

syklops

Lia_lia wrote: »

I know a good few people working for Amazon. They seem to like it! I work for an American multinational and like it.

Depends which one it is I guess..

In my experience, a lot of it comes down to your manager. A good manager makes for a good working environment and vice versa. I've seen the entire atmosphere change when one person got promoted over someone else more suited to the role. I've also seen managers who I wouldnt put in charge of a cat, make their staff miserable and still get promoted.

One eyed Jack

Shenshen wrote: »

As a German, I'm actually very amused by the notion that unions would make a country less efficient - I think there are very, very few countries around with stronger and more meddlesome unions than Germany, and Ireland certainly isn't among these.

That doesn't surprise me really given that unions in Germany are very different to unions in Ireland where we have adopted the US mentality. The automotive industry is a good comparison -

http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/

One eyed Jack

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

From past experience, where we were doing subcontract at a well known since closed Lim****k PC factory(whose name possibly rhymes with hell...) the attitude to staff was, erm, quite robust...this "robust" attitude transferred to people coming in on subcontract, imo, and as proof of seriousness of my original "fcuk off" answer, that's exactly what I said. That cost me a packet tbh, but I pulled us out.

There's easier ways to pass a day than go through a scanner when you need to pee, and back through when you return from peeing..and have a stony-faced security guard follow you around as you work - as did all the regular employees - each little team seemed to have their own "watch-dog" as well as crazy deadlines, no guarantee of being paid if you missed the crazy deadline and poor working conditions. Feck that. If ye want to treat people like prisoners, I'm escaping. My experience may not have been what others experienced. Maybe they were lovely people to work for and I just took them up wrong..

It wasn't, and the above is why people shouldn't believe everything they read on the Internet either based upon the grievances of a small and unhappy minority. Like I said earlier - they exist in every company. It's no reason to tar a whole company with a negative perception based on the opinions of the few who give a negative account of a company, and why we shouldn't take their accounts at first hand as gospel rather than gossip.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It wasn't, and the above is why people shouldn't believe everything they read on the Internet either based upon the grievances of a small and unhappy minority. Like I said earlier - they exist in every company. It's no reason to tar a whole company with a negative perception based on the opinions of the few who give a negative account of a company, and why we shouldn't take their accounts at first hand as gospel rather than gossip.

Fully agree but I would add that you shouldn't judge all Trade Unions by biased or soured opinion on the internet either.

yes there

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

You were head hunted?

Headhunted? I dont like that word. But yes sort off. They made a very good, convincing attempt in getting me on board or at least consider it in the near future. I was interested until I got advice from others.

Massimo Cassagrande

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It wasn't, and the above is why people shouldn't believe everything they read on the Internet either based upon the grievances of a small and unhappy minority. Like I said earlier - they exist in every company. It's no reason to tar a whole company with a negative perception based on the opinions of the few who give a negative account of a company, and why we shouldn't take their accounts at first hand as gospel rather than gossip.

Cool. So you worked there and liked it? At what level did you work?

One eyed Jack

Massimo Cassagrande wrote: »

Cool. So you worked there and liked it? At what level did you work?

The level where I had to sign one of these

Specialun

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The level where I had to sign one of these

Sure even our tea lady had to john hancock those

Berserker

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The level where I had to sign one of these

Any level possible so.

One eyed Jack

Berserker wrote: »

Any level possible so.

Exactly

It was a polite hint that I had no intention of disclosing any further personal information, only that my experience was indeed different from Massimo's experience. Very different.

JupiterKid

Absolutely disgusting and despicable. I'll never use Amazon to buy anything again.

wendell borton

A lot of the silicon valley crowd seen to be heavily influenced by libertarian ideology and individualism.

fleet_admiral

Worked as a lounge boy in the mid 90's. Was paid 2 pound an hour til 11 pm. Not paid after that but regularly had to stay til 3. If you complained you were fired. The bar staff treated the floor staff like slaves too

pauliebdub

I've never had any problems working with multinationals, I was treated and paid well though the hours could sometimes be long. The worst companies in my experience were Irish companies where I was treated like a domestic servant.

farmchoice

fleet_admiral wrote: »

Worked as a lounge boy in the mid 90's. Was paid 2 pound an hour til 11 pm. Not paid after that but regularly had to stay til 3. If you complained you were fired. The bar staff treated the floor staff like slaves too

i worked as bar staff in the mid 90's and our lounge boys and girls were the most work shy gang of pot heads you could find!! it was a big city center pub and club (one of the super pubs popular at the time) the floor staff would disappear into the crowd once it got busy and re-appear at closing time often worse for drink themselves. they would then spend a couple of hours breaking glasses before sitting down to a serious after work session with the rest of us.
a lot of them spoke no english or at least claimed to speak no english ( they always managed to find a ''cupla focal'' when a drug deal was at hand) if you said anything to them they would look at you like you had two heads roar something at their mates in Spanish and then start breaking their ****e laughing at you.

i have never met a lounge boy who gave a f**k about anything or anyone.

Maximus Alexander

Clem H Fandango wrote: »

Not Apple, Foxconn, one of the suppliers of components to many other companies such as Samsung, Huawei and LG.
That is like saying KFC has a high suicide rate because chicken farmers are off topping themselves.

The funny part is that when this story broke the suicide rate amongst Foxconn employees was lower than that of the general Chinese population, and indeed that of every US state.

It's amazing how misinformation spreads on the Internet much more effectively than actual information.

eviltimeban

What's Facebook like to work for does anyone know? Or Twitter? Or LinkedIn? All have head offices in Dublin, be interesting to see what the culture is, esp FB with their "opposite corporate" outlook.

awec

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Some people think keeping a Job is the be all and end all of life, thus these people are taken for a ride by bad employers.

It's more like the American working culture is completely different to the working culture in Europe. Over there people are far more obsessed with their jobs.

Long hours, weekends etc are just the done thing for many. They live to work, rather than work to live.

The joke in our place is when people send emails that they're going to be off on holiday.

American: "Going on holiday next week. Will check emails every few hours so expect some delays. My mobile number is xxxxx in case you need me".

European: "On holiday until September."

the_monkey

Not surprised at all, after working in one US IT co. (+40,000 employees) US companies I completely avoid.

Absolute sociopathic management and disgusting places to work.

Google is supposed to be another absolute hell hole to work in.

padd b1975

I used to collect in a few Amazon warehouses in the UK, Milton Keynes, Peterborough, Doncaster and Swansea.

Apart from being a bit too fussy regarding health and safety, any staff I encountered were always good humoured, helpful and professional.

Out of the four I've namechecked, the guys in Swansea were the best.

westcoast66

I got a phone call from a recruiter for one of these big firms. Once he found I had a child that needed to be dropped off and collected at a certain time each day, he didn't want to know.

Cuddlesworth

westcoast66 wrote: »

I got a phone call from a recruiter for one of these big firms. Once he found I had a child that needed to be dropped off and collected at a certain time each day, he didn't want to know.

If that interfered with a 9-5/5:30 job, than most companies wouldn't be interested.

I don't have a problem with multinationals, they pay well and are nice places to work. The people who work 12 hours days, let themselves be pressured into 12 hours days till it becomes expected of them.

the_syco

The NYT article seemed to be against Amazon, and only took the stories that confirmed this bias.

jimgoose

awec wrote: »

It's more like the American working culture is completely different to the working culture in Europe. Over there people are far more obsessed with their jobs...

And not necessarily in a good way. Some of them spend all day having meetings about meetings, being seen to be "engaged" and arsing around until 7pm, working Saturdays, and so forth. That leaves lunchtime, "brown-bagging" (Ugh! :mad:) and late evenings when they're supposed to be at home having a life to do actual work. This is a rut, all in the mind, and these people need to get out of it.

[Deleted User]

I have worked for an American Multinational company in the past and posted about the craziness that went on there. Not as bad as Amazon, but i can relate.