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Child Item

Teacherslookup.com & Data Protection legislation

gaiscioch

I just googled my name (not as a phrase) and came across a website which has started cogging our details from the Teaching Council of Ireland database and putting it on Google search results. The TCI records do not, very importantly, appear in a Google search for your name. They only appear with a specific search on the TCI website - e.g. "Seán O'Leary" will not appear if your official record is "Seán Michael O'Leary". (and the Captcha mustn't be much of an obstacle to searching for every teacher in Ireland on the TCI website)

My full name (hence it didn't appear as a phrase search) comes up as it is on the TC registration (rather than the shortened version I'd be known as), my TC registration number (which also could be stolen), my school name and registration status. This is presumably just the start of this website's project. Then there's a nice little box for anybody to leave comments anonymously about me, an identified teacher who will someday have to apply for a job. Ratemyteacher meets identity theft, and political accountability without the financial or status rewards of political power.

ie.teacherslookup.com

Leaving aside the issue of identity theft, how is it legal for the private data which we have entrusted with the Teaching Council of Ireland to be circulated like this? Potential employers can check our details/qualifications/Garda vetting etc in the TC website, and that's obviously 100% correct. However, who has given a private-for-profit organisation (hiding behind US law, no doubt) the right to access and distribute our data from an Irish state-owned organisation?

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Graham

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I've tried that. I've also tried it with my name and my school, and my name and the word teacher, and a combination of all three and got nothing back. I did get all of the random websites that I am on, including a photo of me in google images from my twitter account and links to the artist and olympian who share my name.

That's good news, I suspect (hope) the TCI spotted the leak before every record had been scraped and took appropriate countermeasures.

For anyone that wants to double check to see if Google even has your information from Teachers LU here's the search query to use (it's an image as I don't want to encourage Google additional links to Teachers LU).

It probably goes without saying, replace the made up name Graham Smithers with your own name.

rainbowtrout

Graham wrote: »

Try putting your name in quotes.

I've tried that. I've also tried it with my name and my school, and my name and the word teacher, and a combination of all three and got nothing back. I did get all of the random websites that I am on, including a photo of me in google images from my twitter account and links to the artist and olympian who share my name.

evolving_doors

Mod: Ok back on topic.. explaining is loosing.

ANy squabbles and ye can take it to PM...

and no back seat modding or suggesting to put other posters on ignore,

Only a few more days back to school then we'll be all settled down

katydid

Graham wrote: »

You may have inferred that, I didn't.

Let me try and explain it a different way for you.

Imagine 100 families live on the same street as you. Ninety houses are burgled by the same criminal, yours isn't. Does that mean it shouldn't matter to the other 90 households?

Accuracy matters. It is either something that happens when you perform a certain action or something that might happen when you perform a certain action.

The question of legality is a different matter, as is the fact that the information can be easily obtained anyway with two clicks of a mouse.

katydid

Graham wrote: »

Try putting your name in quotes.

I put my name in quotes and those of eight others. Nothing.

Moody_mona

Graham wrote: »

Try putting your name in quotes.

Only eight pages this time and still not there. So it's not the case that it'll always come up, let alone be the first result.

I know the info was on the TC website for so long, and I've no problem with that, I just don't see why a third party would be able to take and use it.

Graham

Moody_mona wrote: »

I don't like the idea of the website but this isn't true. I googled my name and teacher look up and it's there. If I Google just my name I can't find it anywhere on the first ten pages of results.

Try putting your name in quotes.

Moody_mona

Alaia Gifted Rodeo wrote: »

They automatically come up as the first Google result for every teacher listed on the website. Look at the site, take any name you like off it and google it - techerslookup is the first result every time.

I don't like the idea of the website but this isn't true. I googled my name and teacher look up and it's there. If I Google just my name I can't find it anywhere on the first ten pages of results.

katydid

beveragelady wrote: »

They don't AUTOMATICALLY come up for you!
Other people are not you!

No...the point is if they don't automatically come up for one person and they do for another, they don't ALWAYS automatically come up

Graham

katydid wrote: »

Yes, I know they are the same. But the details DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY come up, as suggested.
A school is a publicly funded institution. Show me evidence that the public does NOT have the right to know who is employed by them in a publicly funded institution...

I've asked you previously to point to any legislation that suggests the general public are legally entitled to know who works where in the public service.

You're the one making this claim and I have asked you to back this up.

Nows your chance.

beveragelady

katydid wrote: »

Yes, I know they are the same. But the details DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY come up, as suggested.

They don't AUTOMATICALLY come up for you!
Other people are not you!

katydid

Graham wrote: »

Whether it's automatic or not the data protection/privacy implications are exactly the same.

I can't say I blame people about their workplace information being made available globally to all and sundry. The public have no expectation or right to expect a public servants work location to be publicly available, please feel free to show me evidence to the contrary rather than an opinion.

Yes, I know they are the same. But the details DO NOT AUTOMATICALLY come up, as suggested.
A school is a publicly funded institution. Show me evidence that the public does NOT have the right to know who is employed by them in a publicly funded institution...

beveragelady

gaiscioch wrote: »

On this point, lodge a formal complaint rather than a query. I initially lodged a query about the legalities of this and received an automated reply stating a query will be answered in 15 days, whereas a formal complaint will be dealt with much quicker.

Thanks, that's useful to know.

gaiscioch

Graham wrote: »

I wouldn't wait, the DPC aren't draconian at all, in fact they are very reasonable to deal with.

The DPC will usually have a named individual that they can contact to assess the situation.

On this point, lodge a formal complaint rather than a query. I initially lodged a query about the legalities of this and received an automated reply stating a query will be answered in 15 days, whereas a formal complaint will be dealt with much quicker.

Graham

I wouldn't wait, the DPC aren't draconian at all, in fact they are very reasonable to deal with.

The DPC will usually have a named individual that they can contact to assess the situation.

I note with interest that the website that is republishing this information is hosted by Microsoft in a U.S. data centre. It should be open to the Teaching Council to submit a DMCA takedown request to Microsoft stating that the collection of data that is being republished is copyright information which Teacherslookup have no right to re-publish.

There may also be options around identifying the individuals responsible for the publication which could be used to help prevent further infringement.

r93kaey5p2izun

Many registered teachers don't have any workplace listed by the TC - and this is not just subs. If this is an option I will be asking the TC to remove this information from public view for my entry on the register, given they can't seem to protect our data.

There are thousands of public and civil servants not subject to any public listing. Personally I think any claim that it is a public right to know exactly where each public servant works is complete nonsense.

beveragelady

Graham wrote: »

Can I ask if anyone here (who has had their information published by teachers lookup) has lodged a formal complaint with the Data Protection Commissioner and/or the Teaching Council of Ireland?

For context, there are two or three approaches that could potentially be taken to rectifying these data breaches. I'm curious to learn if any of them are being pursued.

I emailed the TC giving a very vague outline of my perspective on this and asking them to contact me. I got an automated out-of-office reply, looks like they're off until the 17th. I thought it was fair to give them the right of reply before charging off to the Data Protection Commissioner.

gaiscioch

katydid wrote: »

since they are public servants and this data should be available. The information is, and should be, available at the click of a mouse.

Says who? What's your legal basis for this claim? And where on the net is there a private foreign business publicising the data on the names, places of employment, personal registration numbers, etc for all 350,000 Irish public servants?

Graham

Can I ask if anyone here (who has had their information published by teachers lookup) has lodged a formal complaint with the Data Protection Commissioner and/or the Teaching Council of Ireland?

For context, there are two or three approaches that could potentially be taken to rectifying these data breaches. I'm curious to learn if any of them are being pursued.

gaiscioch

wrote:

Rest assured, you are no more easily found on Google now as you were this time last year. Google yourself and see...

I've googled myself and I see that the above claim is nonsense.

gaiscioch

katydid wrote: »

The TC information can be found by a simple two step search. Google the TC, then click the search tab

A "simple" search is Google, which never gave this information when the info was only on the TC website. Do you accept this fact yet (Graham explained the technical reason why it didn't)?

Your suggested "simple two-step search" assumes 1) people actually know you're a teacher and 2) that the info is on a website run by some organisation named the Teaching Council of Ireland. They are big assumptions indeed. If they just google a teacher's name now they find out both his profession, place of employment and other personal data from a private US firm.

Where, precisely, in our contracts of employment was this consented to? Please be clear on this specific point.

gaiscioch

katydid wrote: »

I tried googling my own name and that of several of my colleagues, who would have, if not unique, at least unusual names. In no case did this website come up in a google search; what DID come up was a link to our college website moodle site, with that teacher's name and role.

Bearing in mind this corporation is just beginning this project publicising our mined data, perhaps they haven't got around to you?

Maybe they're doing 2nd level schools or some other sector you're not in first? They had not got me up last week for certain. They do now. Additionally, as I said in the op my name did not come up as a phrase search with double quotes. That is because the TCI has my full name recorded. So take out the double quotes and search again.

beveragelady

katydid wrote: »

It IS untrue that it will automatically come up. It did for you. It didnt' for me.

There you have it. It doesn't affect you. It affects me. Therefore my perspective is different and a good deal more pertinent.

Graham

katydid wrote: »

It proves that it is not automatic.

I never said public servants have no rights under the Data Protection act. I said the opposite, in fact. That has nothing to do with this issue. The issue here is public data being misused. People here have complained about simple data like a teacher's workplace being available at all

Whether it's automatic or not the data protection/privacy implications are exactly the same.

I can't say I blame people about their workplace information being made available globally to all and sundry. The public have no expectation or right to expect a public servants work location to be publicly available, please feel free to show me evidence to the contrary rather than an opinion.

katydid

beveragelady wrote: »

This is where you said I was making it up.

The key thing here to which you seem selectively blind is the fact that previously a google search result of my name yielded no information that betrayed my physical location. That is no longer the case.

If you really have nothing to contribute other than "Meh, doesn't bother me, suck it up," I can't help wondering why you keep chiming in.

It IS untrue that it will automatically come up. It did for you. It didnt' for me.

A google search will reveal your physical location anyway, if a person knows you're a teacher. They just have to look up the TC website. If you have a problem with that, you are in the wrong job.

It's not a case of "suck it up". It's a case of reality - the public has a right to know who works in publicly funded institutions.

katydid

Graham wrote: »

The fact that you're unable to find any and I found the first 4 I searched for doesn't change the facts or the Data Protection laws regardless of your misguided belief that public servants have no rights to Data Protection/privacy.

It proves that it is not automatic.

I never said public servants have no rights under the Data Protection act. I said the opposite, in fact. That has nothing to do with this issue. The issue here is public data being misused. People here have complained about simple data like a teacher's workplace being available at all

Graham

katydid wrote: »

Strange, though, that a random search of nine names didn't show up anything.

So we are both right.

And it's a storm in a teacup, since TWO clicks gets you the same information on the TC website...

The fact that you're unable to find any and I found the first 4 I searched for doesn't change the facts or the Data Protection laws regardless of your misguided belief that public servants have no rights to Data Protection/privacy.

beveragelady

katydid wrote: »

The information may be in Google's index, but it doesn't, as was claimed, pop up when you google a person's name. That is untrue and scaremongering.

This is where you said I was making it up.

The key thing here to which you seem selectively blind is the fact that previously a google search result of my name yielded no information that betrayed my physical location. That is no longer the case.

If you really have nothing to contribute other than "Meh, doesn't bother me, suck it up," I can't help wondering why you keep chiming in.

katydid

Alaia Gifted Rodeo wrote: »

The website only collected part of the register. You probably aren't on it. It's the first result for any name I search that's on that website.

Strange, though, that a random search of nine names didn't show up anything.

So we are both right.

And it's a storm in a teacup, since TWO clicks gets you the same information on the TC website...

Graham

katydid wrote: »

you are a public servant, in a public job. You can't expect your workplace not to be named on a professional register.

If that's a problem for you, you're in the wrong job.

Fortunately there are data protection laws that limit how much of this information and in what form is publicly available.

Yet again I will point out to you, being a public servant does not remove a persons rights in terms of data protection.