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Child Item

Pacteau pleads guilty to murder of Karen Buckley

[Deleted User]

From RTE News

A 21-year-old Glasgow man has pleaded guilty to the murder of Irish student Karen Buckley in Scotland earlier this year.

It has been requested that we reopen the previous thread on this subject, however we think a new thread would be more appropriate.

Please play nice, and keep in mind that Karen's family and friends may read this thread.

Thank you.

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gimmick

Its rare I get "red top rage", but personally I would be happy for the prick to be beaten within an inch of his life over and over again. Rape, murder, disfiguring the body? This guy doesn't deserve a peaceful moment for the remainder of his life.

AudreyHepburn

Does it really matter why she got in the car? Surely all that matters is what happened to her when she did?

Hopefully justice is served....this evil individual should never be allowed outside a jail cell again.

How brave and dignified Karen's Father was reading that statement. I can't even imagine what that must have felt like.

RIP Karen.

Neyite

Menas wrote: »

I doubt very much that her family or friends are awake at night wondering why she got in the car. Because it does not matter. Could have been that he just offered her a lift home. He was a predator...

Fact is that she did get in the car and she is not to blame for what happened after that.

I saw the photos - she was a little slip of a thing, compared to her friends she was shorter and is very slim, while he is quite frankly a tall fat brute. Maybe another reason he targeted her. If he used full force to get her into a car, there was no way she could have defended herself though there is evidence she tried, the poor girl.

From everything I've read about her in the media, she was very concious about her personal safety with taxi's or walking home. My guess is that he lured her away from the club entrance under the pretext of maybe a sick mate in a car, gave her a bang on the head maybe and then he forced her into the car.

I think the reason why the general public look to find reasons such as going off with a bloke or a one night stand is to reassure ourselves that the young men and women in our families are safe, that they will stay safe if they enjoy themselves safely. That if they don't engage in things like going off with a stranger on a ONS or hitch-hiking, or drink themselves into oblivioun that no harm will befall them. It's easier to pretend that their actions made it easier for a predator to strike rather than admit that they can roam among us and pick off the ones who are careful about their personal safety.

Potatoeman

Neyite wrote: »

I saw the photos - she was a little slip of a thing, compared to her friends she was shorter and is very slim, while he is quite frankly a tall fat brute. Maybe another reason he targeted her. If he used full force to get her into a car, there was no way she could have defended herself though there is evidence she tried, the poor girl.

From everything I've read about her in the media, she was very concious about her personal safety with taxi's or walking home. My guess is that he lured her away from the club entrance under the pretext of maybe a sick mate in a car, gave her a bang on the head maybe and then he forced her into the car.

I think the reason why the general public look to find reasons such as going off with a bloke or a one night stand is to reassure ourselves that the young men and women in our families are safe, that they will stay safe if they enjoy themselves safely. That if they don't engage in things like going off with a stranger on a ONS or hitch-hiking, or drink themselves into oblivioun that no harm will befall them. It's easier to pretend that their actions made it easier for a predator to strike rather than admit that they can roam among us and pick off the ones who are careful about their personal safety.

How would he know she was a nurse?

You can be as cautious as possible and still have bad things happen but it is safer to be cautious. It doesn't make the crime less of a crime though.

FouxDaFaFa

Neyite wrote: »

I think the reason why the general public look to find reasons such as going off with a bloke or a one night stand is to reassure ourselves that the young men and women in our families are safe, that they will stay safe if they enjoy themselves safely. That if they don't engage in things like going off with a stranger on a ONS or hitch-hiking, or drink themselves into oblivioun that no harm will befall them. It's easier to pretend that their actions made it easier for a predator to strike rather than admit that they can roam among us and pick off the ones who are careful about their personal safety.

I wish I could thank this more than once. I couldn't agree more.

It's not always so much that people are blaming the victim or thinking "well, it's their fault because they did this or didn't do this". It's an urge to reassure themselves that they are different in some way to the victim because it's too scary to think that this could happen to you too, through no fault of your own and that there's nothing you can do to defend yourself.

People put victims into categories and try to file them away as exceptional or foolish because they are scared. It's fear that drives that desire to insist that if you stick to the "rules", the monster won't get you. Unfortunately, that wasn't true for Karen.

Neyite

Potatoeman wrote: »

How would he know she was a nurse?

He may not have known she was a nurse, but might have struck up a conversation with one of her group earlier where it was mentioned - hear the accent, say "you're not local are you on holidays?" "No, I'm a student". "What are you studying?" "Nursing." Haven't we all had a variant of that convo in a club - where are you from and what are you doing here kind of thing?

Or that club could have been the local equivalent of Coppers where a high proportion of nurses and garda would go. Or maybe he didn't have any clue that she nursed at all - I honestly don't know.

wrote:

You can be as cautious as possible and still have bad things happen but it is safer to be cautious. It doesn't make the crime less of a crime though.

You've totally taken my post up wrong there - that is NOT what I said or even implied.

He's guilty of a heinous crime and whether a murder victim goes home with a different stranger every night of the week is no reason whatsoever that they would be deserving of any harm that would come to them.

Effects

Aidric wrote: »

That's grim stuff for the family to have to hear.

The prosecutor travelled to Cork to meet with the family in their home. At least it's some help to hear it before it comes out in court.

Potatoeman

Neyite wrote: »

He may not have known she was a nurse, but might have struck up a conversation with one of her group earlier where it was mentioned - hear the accent, say "you're not local are you on holidays?" "No, I'm a student". "What are you studying?" "Nursing." Haven't we all had a variant of that convo in a club - where are you from and what are you doing here kind of thing?

Or that club could have been the local equivalent of Coppers where a high proportion of nurses and garda would go. Or maybe he didn't have any clue that she nursed at all - I honestly don't know.

You've totally taken my post up wrong there - that is NOT what I said or even implied. He's guilty of a heinous crime and whether a murder victim goes home with a different stranger every night of the week is no reason whatsoever that they would be deserving of any harm that would come to them.

I wasn't trying to say you did. I put that at the end before someone screamed victim blaming. There is a risk going off with someone you dont know very well, not that we know this is the case here.

conorh91

Effects wrote: »

The prosecutor travelled to Cork to meet with the family in their home. At least it's some help to hear it before it comes out in court.

Yeah the Scots have set a high standard for dealing with families of victims of crime. The fact that the Lord Advocate spent the day on the family farm in Mourneabbey, briefing the family and getting an insight into Karen Buckley's life, must be some comfort to the family.

It would give you pause for thought at how our own system deals with victims or survivor families.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

You know most rape victims actually know their attacker so by that reasoning you could say it's a risk being alone with anyone.

Summer wind

I think he should never be released from prison. The impulses he must have to rape and kill can never be controlled or rehabilitated. This excuse for a man will always be a danger to women and if he is ever released I think he will kill again.

Neyite

conorh91 wrote: »

Yeah the Scots have set a high standard for dealing with families of victims of crime. The fact that the Lord Advocate spent the day on the family farm in Mourneabbey, briefing the family and getting an insight into Karen Buckley's life, must be some comfort to the family.

It would give you pause for thought at how our own system deals with victims or survivor families.

Absolutely - I think if a few of our judges had to spend a day with the victim's family and see for themselves the shock waves the crime caused in their lives there might be far less lenient sentences handed out.

Menas

Neyite wrote: »

Absolutely - I think if a few of our judges had to spend a day with the victim's family and see for themselves the shock waves the crime caused in their lives there might be far less lenient sentences handed out.

It is for another thread, but I would gladly pay more tax if it was going to the building of a new large prison in this country.
Over crowding should not be an issue or influence sentencing.
People need to respect the law again.

Neyite

Menas wrote: »

It is for another thread, but I would gladly pay more tax if it was going to the building of a new large prison in this country.
Over crowding should not be an issue or influence sentencing.
People need to respect the law again.

I only caught the end of the segment on the radio but it was explaining the methodology for determining the length of sentence. It seems that in Scotland there is a pre-determined starting point for calculation of sentence (depending on the crime classification I suppose,) then X years are added or subtracted from that starting point based on the evidence, trial, and other mitigating factors, and the judge has to explain his reasons in his sentencing statement.

Seeing how wildly our judges sentences can vary for seemingly similar crimes, I think that sounds like a fairly good system.

conorh91

Neyite wrote: »

I only caught the end of the segment on the radio but it was explaining the methodology for determining the length of sentence. It seems that in Scotland there is a pre-determined starting point for calculation of sentence (depending on the crime classification I suppose,) then X years are added or subtracted from that starting point based on the evidence, trial, and other mitigating factors, and the judge has to explain his reasons in his sentencing statement.

Seeing how wildly our judges sentences can vary for seemingly similar crimes, I think that sounds like a fairly good system.

The Scottish courts are independent as ours are, and from what I can see, there is no predetermined sentencing. They have clearer sentencing guidelines than in Ireland, but they are only guidelines.

In Ireland, it is also common practice for the sentencing court to open with the correct term of imprisonment on the scale of offending, and then apply mitigating factors, taking account of whether the accused person has pleaded guilty, and whether he pleaded guilty when charged, or at the door of the court, or after the trial began. (That's just one example of a mitigating factor of course).

Our sentencing structures don't seem very much different to the Scots, but our courts are very bad at PR, very bad at explaining their decisions in the criminal sphere. Sentencing statements usually read into the court record by the sentencing judge, and almost never published. This leads to public confusion and frustration. The Scottish courts publish every sentencing statement.

When I said I think we could learn a lot from them, I was also thinking more along the lines of how our DPP engages with victims. The DPP's office has come in for a lot of criticism this regard, much of it fairly.

anonymous00000

Just watched the fathers statement again and had tears in my eyes. So dignified and brave. I watched an interview with Tyrones Mickey Harte a few weeks ago on Pat Kennys show and had tears too at how he spoke about Michaela. I just don't know how these people carry on after such an enormous tragedy, and I hope I never do. So utterly devastating. To think Karens parents went to sleep that Saturday night and woke up their lives completely and utterly turned upside down forever is beyond comprehension.

I don't think there has ever been a murder case that has made me feel sick to the pit of my stomach. It is absolutely disgusting what that monster did to the poor girl. I think the last time I felt truly disgusted and sick at a murder was when those 2 girls in England were murdered by their school caretaker and the Sarah Payne murder case many years ago.

I sincerely hope Pacteau is sent down for a long long time. Anything less then 30 years minimum would be a travesty of justice in my opinion and even then that still wouldn't be enough for him. To think he will more than likely be in his 40s or 50s when eligible for parole is so sickening.

[Deleted User]

I have been a bit out of the loop on the news at home, just reading this now.

In the past week or so, there has been a similar case to Karen Buckley's murder, this time in Toulouse. A 23-year-old woman who had been studying in Toulouse was killed and her body was disposed of in a similar way to Karen Buckley. Here's a link to an English language news article on the French murder:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/french-students-inspired-by-breaking-bad-allegedly-killed-woman-over-drug-debt-and-dissolved-her-body-in-acid

Apparently there have also been similar cases in the USA.

Was this a "thing" before Breaking Bad?

I myself haven't watched BB so i don't understand the reference. Disturbing though, isn't it?

Tin Foil Hat

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I have been a bit out of the loop on the news at home, just reading this now.

In the past week or so, there has been a similar case to Karen Buckley's murder, this time in Toulouse. A 23-year-old woman who had been studying in Toulouse was killed and her body was disposed of in a similar way to Karen Buckley. Here's a link to an English language news article on the French murder:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/french-students-inspired-by-breaking-bad-allegedly-killed-woman-over-drug-debt-and-dissolved-her-body-in-acid

Apparently there have also been similar cases in the USA.

Was this a "thing" before Breaking Bad?

I myself haven't watched BB so i don't understand the reference. Disturbing though, isn't it?

John George Haigh was doing this in the forties.

DetroitSpinR

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I have been a bit out of the loop on the news at home, just reading this now.

In the past week or so, there has been a similar case to Karen Buckley's murder, this time in Toulouse. A 23-year-old woman who had been studying in Toulouse was killed and her body was disposed of in a similar way to Karen Buckley. Here's a link to an English language news article on the French murder:

Apparently there have also been similar cases in the USA.

Was this a "thing" before Breaking Bad?

I myself haven't watched BB so i don't understand the reference. Disturbing though, isn't it?

Women have been raped since the dawn of mammals. It's hardly fair to link that abomination to anything other than uncontrolled sadism.

[Deleted User]

DetroitSpinR wrote: »

Women have been raped since the dawn of mammals.

well, yes, unfortunately so. But it wasn't rape I was referring to.

I referred to a collection of recent murders in which the bodies were treated in a particular way in France, the UK and the USA.

I'm not blaming Breaking Bad, before any BB fan gets on my case. I'm suggesting a possible pattern in behaviour, maybe informed by Breaking Bad, maybe not.

A Dub in Glasgo

He got 23 years before he can be considered for release

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Scary to think he'll still be a young man when he gets out though

wilhelm roentgen

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

He got 23 years before he can be considered for release

Pity, should be life without parole IMO

Penny Tration

It's really sad to know that if he behaves himself in prison, he can get out at an age young enough to meet someone and start a family - things he took away from Karen.

cazzer22

The whole case gives me the shivers. The amount of times I've left clubs without letting my friends know and walked home alone, it could've been anyone. The poor, poor girl. 23 years will never be enough for what he did. RIP Karen.

anonymous00000

23 years is nothing for what this monster has done. It's actually an insult to her memory. In 23 years time Karen would still only be 46/47 - still a relatively young woman, possibly married with a family of her own - he took that away from her. It's just so unfair - life should mean life or a sentence so long that Pacteau would be a very very old man with nothing to live for when he gets out. I just hope the parole board see through him in 23years time. He doesn't deserve the privilege of having the hope of someday being released when her family have no hope of seeing her ever again. I actually thought he would have gotten more to be honest and I think the judge even wanted to give him longer only the prosecution had withdrawn the charge of attempting to defeat the ends of justice. God only knows why. If they hadn't withdrawn that he could have gotten another 10 years possibly, maybe even more.

The fact he is only 21 is quite frightening, clearly an extreme danger to any woman. I just wonder was there more victims? The attempted rape happened in 2011 and this happened 4 years later - what was he doing in all that time? A horrific murder such as this can't just come out of nowhere. I read in some newspaper that he had visited prostitutes and police in Glasgow had been questioning them about him. Maybe they believe he was violent towards them and maybe they were too afraid to come forward, who knows. Hopefully if he was he will be appropriately punished - I can't even begin to imagine what that girl he tried to rape before has gone through.

This whole case just seems unbelievable, like something out of a horror film. I honestly don't know how her family will move on from this. I'm not an overly religious person but I really hope there is some kind of afterlife and Karen is happy and finally at peace. X