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New Van Faulty

[Deleted User]

I bought a new FORD TRANSIT COURIER VAN (Diesel 1.5) in January 2015. Sometime after I thought it might be chugging a bit but it was almost imperceptable. A couple of months later it got much worse and I was definite about it. I brought it back to the garage.Most of the time it happened at about 80 or 90 Kph. They took it for a couple of days but all they did was drive it a small bit and stick it on a diagnostic machine which showed up no faults. When the chugging/juddering was occurring there was no warning lights showing and all fluids were at proper levels. i.e. nothing to indicate any problem.

The next time it happened it was very bad, so bad in fact it seemed like you were driving over the painted lines in front of a roundabout, (you know.. the ones to slow you down), the steering wheel was vibrating back and forth like mad so I had no choice but to pull into the hard shoulder on the motorway and switch off the engine and check everything. Nothing seemed out of order (other than the crazy juddering) so I restarted the engine and drove off as normal without a problem. Van went back to the garage again.

They just plugged it into the diagnostic machine,drove it a little bit, rang me and told me nothing found and to come collect my van. I said no I wouldn't collect it, that they needed to drive it a good bit as the problem was occurring very intermittently so they hung onto it for another couple of days and drove it a good bit but found no problem (approx 400 Kms which was no problem to me as I wanted to find out what was wrong however I was miffed when I realised that afterwards they hadn't refilled it with diesel).

Van back with me again and the juddering/chugging has reduced from long 10 second intervals of chugging/juddering to single strong "chugs". No big problem but not what you want from a brand new van.
The van is now back in the garage for the fifth time and they are doing nothing other than plugging it into a diagnostic machine and giving it short drives. As the problem is so intermittent when it occurs I think this will turn up nothing, at least the odds are against a correct diagnosis from this approach as the problem may occur roughly every five or six days or longer, sometimes it doesn't happen for a couple of weeks.

I explained that surely by this stage they should be stripping out injectors etc. etc. to see if they can find out where the fault is.
According to the garage Ford Warranty will not allow them to do anything other than drive it or hook it up to a diagnostic machine until a fault is found. I said that that was crazy because if there is a fault and you guys are driving the van occasionally and the diagnostic machine reports nothing then we are never going to find it. I said that if that were the case then the Ford Warranty is not worth the paper it is written on. i.e. it is useless because the warranty doesn't cover looking further for the fault. (i.e. the "I don't care if you can see it on the shelf behind me, if the computer says we don't have one we don't have one" approach).

Each time the van goes back I have to give a credit card for a deposit to enterprise rentals and then Ford Warranty covers van hire of a Fiat Doblo from enterprise rentals but the whole mullarkey is getting annoying at this stage.
After previously owning two Mondeo's and a couple of Fiesta's this is the last Ford coming into our houshold. I bought the van new so as not to have any problems and I think I would have been better off second hand with a back street warranty from a grease pit garage rather than the warranty with the new faulty FORD TRANSIT COURIER VAN.

One thing suggested was it might be the DPF. I didn't think the DPF would cause this very strong juddering but anyway just to be sure I drove it for 40 kilometers on the motorway at 120 Kph and the following day it was juddering/chugging so I guess that rules out the DPF being the root cause, which I didn't think it was anyway. Bad fuel was another straw they grasped at but I explained I always fill from the same reputable fuel stations.

I am thinking of taking the van to a third party for fault diagnosis if this continues for much longer and then trying to reclaim any expense from Ford. I believe I must allow Ford and the dealership reasonable time to find out what is wrong but I think at this stage we are beyond reasonable. I'm also unsure if I could afford the expense of getting a third party involved.

Has anyone any experience of trying to resolve a similiar issue? If so any advice gratefully recieved. Thanks in advance.

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ozt9vdujny3srf

Could the behaviour be shown to the garage by an audio or video recording? (perhaps a cheap dash cam with audio?)

[Deleted User]

Gabriel Chubby Starlight wrote: »

Could the behaviour be shown to the garage by an audio or video recording? (perhaps a cheap dash cam with audio?)

I don't think without reference to a fixed object and an extremely hi def camera this would be possible..... It would need to be as bad as the worst instance for any chance of the camera to show it up properly... Thanks though for the thought...

9935452

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think without reference to a fixed object and an extremely hi def camera this would be possible..... It would need to be as bad as the worst instance for any chance of the camera to show it up properly... Thanks though for the thought...

i was thinking the same , you need to prove to them that there is a problem.

The other option is go to another ford garage and see what they say.
The bad ford warranty might be with that garage . another one might extend themselves more

R.O.R

Any ply lining or after market electrics fitted?

Recently had a connect off the road for 4 weeks of diagnostics, including a replacement ECU and it was eventually traced to a screw from part of the fit out that went through the loom.

[Deleted User]

9935452 wrote: »

i was thinking the same , you need to prove to them that there is a problem.

The other option is go to another ford garage and see what they say.
The bad ford warranty might be with that garage . another one might extend themselves more

That's an option I never thought of... thanks I'll keep that in mind. Nice one.:)

[Deleted User]

R.O.R wrote: »

Any ply lining or after market electrics fitted?

Recently had a connect off the road for 4 weeks of diagnostics, including a replacement ECU and it was eventually traced to a screw from part of the fit out that went through the loom.

Nah, nothing at all fitted. I think everything motoring wise must be over engineered to meet emissions targets and mpg figures. Thanks though, its one to keep in mind for future reference.

Del2005

Problem is that an intermittent problem is the worst type of problem to bring to a garage, or any business, they can't throw people at it to drive it enough and can't just throw in parts as they won't be covered. Your only hope is sticking an OBD reader, and smart phone app, in and hope something shows next time you're driving.

The other option is to return it under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. They have had multiple attempts to fix the problem and haven't, repairs should be permanent and they aren't even repairing it!

jetfiremuck

Heres what you need to do. Go to another Ford Dealer. Have them run the vin and check if there are any bulletins on the vehicle. 2. See if the dealer has a competent head mechanic. Have him go with you while you drive to see if what you are experiencing is normal or not. I know they have some hand held recorder that records whats happening sensor wise etc while the symtoms are occuring. No matter what dealership you go to will have a record as they input to Ford for warranty payment. Its imperative that you have a mechanic drive with you. Leaving it at the garage is a waste of time. They are not going to spend much time tracing an intermittent problem.( they are on the clock).

[Deleted User]

Del2005 wrote: »

Problem is that an intermittent problem is the worst type of problem to bring to a garage, or any business, they can't throw people at it to drive it enough and can't just throw in parts as they won't be covered. Your only hope is sticking an OBD reader, and smart phone app, in and hope something shows next time you're driving.

The other option is to return it under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. They have had multiple attempts to fix the problem and haven't, repairs should be permanent and they aren't even repairing it!

The other option is to return it under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. ........ That would suit but the only problem is I am sure they would refuse this as they would say there is no problem with it as far as they are concerned !

[Deleted User]

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Heres what you need to do. Go to another Ford Dealer. Have them run the vin and check if there are any bulletins on the vehicle. 2. See if the dealer has a competent head mechanic. Have him go with you while you drive to see if what you are experiencing is normal or not. I know they have some hand held recorder that records whats happening sensor wise etc while the symtoms are occuring. No matter what dealership you go to will have a record as they input to Ford for warranty payment. Its imperative that you have a mechanic drive with you. Leaving it at the garage is a waste of time. They are not going to spend much time tracing an intermittent problem.( they are on the clock).

Ive been out in it with a mechanic but it is so intermittent that it may go a week or more before it happens again so the likelihood of both me and a mechanic experiencing the problem while together in the van is slim. According to the Service manager there are no known issues with the Ford Transit Courier on record however I will try to double check this elsewhere. Thanks...... Have to say, completely shocked at how little investigation the Ford dealership has put into this so far, especially as its a brand new van.

Del2005

Deleted User wrote: »

The other option is to return it under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. ........ That would suit but the only problem is I am sure they would refuse this as they would say there is no problem with it as far as they are concerned !

That's why we have the Act, they've admitted it's faulty by taking it for repair. You'll most likely need a solicitor but you will get a new van if you're persistent.

R.O.R

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ive been out in it with a mechanic but it is so intermittent that it may go a week or more before it happens again so the likelihood of both me and a mechanic experiencing the problem while together in the van is slim. According to the Service manager there are no known issues with the Ford Transit Courier on record however I will try to double check this elsewhere. Thanks...... Have to say, completely shocked at how little investigation the Ford dealership has put into this so far, especially as its a brand new van.

Which engine is it, and where in the country are you?

An intermittent fault that occurs about once a week is just about the worst thing to try and trace. Its unlikely to ever happen while the garage have it, so they are going to struggle to fix it if they don't experience it.

What exactly do you think they will do, if the van drives normally whenever they have it? Presume no errors show when it's plugged in to the diagnostics?

I had a customer at the start of this year who's new motor was riddled with issuers, mainly high fuel consumption, so I got him to drop it to me - had been in the dealer 3 times already by this stage - so I could do an independent test. Actually managed to hit stated consumption figures, which is very rare, and the other issues he'd complained about, were not present in the car at all.

[Deleted User]

Del2005 wrote: »

That's why we have the Act, they've admitted it's faulty by taking it for repair. You'll most likely need a solicitor but you will get a new van if you're persistent.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. Usually get a call to take it back a day or so later but haven't heard back from them so far so maybe they are doing something useful this time. We'll see. Thanks again.....

aaakev

I met a customer last year driving a new transit custom with a similar complaint, garage were no help and fault had been cropping up for months and they couldn't figure it out. I suggested he try get his money back and id sell him a new Mercedes for less money. He got his money back and loves his new vito

[Deleted User]

R.O.R wrote: »

Which engine is it, and where in the country are you?

An intermittent fault that occurs about once a week is just about the worst thing to try and trace. Its unlikely to ever happen while the garage have it, so they are going to struggle to fix it if they don't experience it.

What exactly do you think they will do, if the van drives normally whenever they have it? Presume no errors show when it's plugged in to the diagnostics?

I had a customer at the start of this year who's new motor was riddled with issuers, mainly high fuel consumption, so I got him to drop it to me - had been in the dealer 3 times already by this stage - so I could do an independent test. Actually managed to hit stated consumption figures, which is very rare, and the other issues he'd complained about, were not present in the car at all.

It's a 1.5 diesel, TDCI 75 PS if I remember correctly... (the book is in the van).

Nope, no errors showing on their diagnostics and no warning lights on my dashboard.

Actually I was amazed on one particularly bad episode that there were no warning lights displayed, the juddering was very violent, unbelievable.

Its much better (when I say better I mean that now it is just an occasional single judder, still I don't want it to be doing that at all) now but should whatever it is cause a total engine failure after 2 years I am out of warranty and Ford won't want to know. Also I think that really there should be no strange "goings on" with a new vehicle.

I've driven cars, vans and trucks over the years so I've a reasonable idea of whats on and not on and a vehicle juddering for no reason when relatively new ain't one of them.... I actually said nothing a couple of times and waited until the passenger pointed it out just to convince myself I wasn't nuts.

[Deleted User]

R.O.R wrote: »

Which engine is it, and where in the country are you?

An intermittent fault that occurs about once a week is just about the worst thing to try and trace. Its unlikely to ever happen while the garage have it, so they are going to struggle to fix it if they don't experience it.

What exactly do you think they will do, if the van drives normally whenever they have it? Presume no errors show when it's plugged in to the diagnostics?

I had a customer at the start of this year who's new motor was riddled with issuers, mainly high fuel consumption, so I got him to drop it to me - had been in the dealer 3 times already by this stage - so I could do an independent test. Actually managed to hit stated consumption figures, which is very rare, and the other issues he'd complained about, were not present in the car at all.

I'm in Laois but I bought it elsewhere.

[Deleted User]

aaakev wrote: »

I met a customer last year driving a new transit custom with a similar complaint, garage were no help and fault had been cropping up for months and they couldn't figure it out. I suggested he try get his money back and id sell him a new Mercedes for less money. He got his money back and loves his new vito

Mines only the little Ford Transit Courier..... don't think Mercedes have a comparable vehicle................ although I stand to be corrected.

aaakev

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Mines only the little Ford Transit Courier..... don't think Mercedes have a comparable vehicle................ although I stand to be corrected.

They have the citan bit not available in this country.

I wasn't on the sell i was saying its not unheard of that they would refund you if there is an ongoing issue. To be fair they should give it to a mechanic to drive home in or maybe for a weekend even, i know we have done it before with intermittent issues and its helped find the problem

Its a pity because the courier is a lovely little van.

Preset No.3

Email the CEO of the garage, also email the CEO of Ford Ireland and then start emailing Ford USA. As much as I believe in being polite this has gone beyond a joke and I would be kicking up blue murder at this stage. So you bought a new van to have these problems? Do they think you are making this up???? Why would anyone do that?????

How was the van paid for? Ford Finance, bank or outright?

[Deleted User]

aaakev wrote: »

They have the citan bit not available in this country.

I wasn't on the sell i was saying its not unheard of that they would refund you if there is an ongoing issue. To be fair they should give it to a mechanic to drive home in or maybe for a weekend even, i know we have done it before with intermittent issues and its helped find the problem

Its a pity because the courier is a lovely little van.

Yep, grand driver when it works... its back again but I've been doing a bit of research so I might have to take things further. First stop was Ford Ireland........ Never heard of a Citan, must look it up.Thanks.....

[Deleted User]

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Email the CEO of the garage, also email the CEO of Ford Ireland and then start emailing Ford USA. As much as I believe in being polite this has gone beyond a joke and I would be kicking up blue murder at this stage. So you bought a new van to have these problems? Do they think you are making this up???? Why would anyone do that?????

How was the van paid for? Ford Finance, bank or outright?

Ford Finance for the most part....... Yep, fed up now with the runaround. Was told there was no know problems with the vehicle type by the garage... Turns out there are plenty of service bulletins re a faulty turbo solenoid.....Disappointed to be getting this type of service to say the least. You live and learn.

Jb1989

If it was shuddering for long periods could you not have pulled up at garage ang got them into straight away before it stopped again?

bucketybuck

Del2005 wrote: »

That's why we have the Act, they've admitted it's faulty by taking it for repair. You'll most likely need a solicitor but you will get a new van if you're persistent.

What utter rubbish. He will certainly need a solicitor if he follows your advice.

bucketybuck

Deleted User wrote: »

I explained that surely by this stage they should be stripping out injectors etc. etc. to see if they can find out where the fault is.

Why on earth do you think this is a good idea? No garage is going to spend hundreds of euro stripping down an engine for a fault that has never once happened for them, and in terms of a garage 400kms is certainly a good enough effort to let that fault actually happen.

Seriously, say they remove the injectors, send them to diesel services for testing, then refit the injectors and nothing has changed, then who is paying the bill for the injector testing? Ford certainly won't and nor should they.

I am thinking of taking the van to a third party for fault diagnosis if this continues for much longer and then trying to reclaim any expense from Ford. I believe I must allow Ford and the dealership reasonable time to find out what is wrong but I think at this stage we are beyond reasonable. I'm also unsure if I could afford the expense of getting a third party involved.

Do not do this, you will not get any third party expenses paid under any circumstances. Please note however that any Ford garage can work at any Ford vehicle under warranty, if you think the dealer isn't doing enough you can go to another one. Personally, I don't think it will make a difference. If the fault has never happened then there is next to nothing any garage can do about it, you cannot fix a fault that isn't happening for you. There is no magic button that a different dealer can press to tell them what is going on.

Speaking in general terms, Ford as a manufacturer are an awful company with regards to warranty. They are extremely tight on what a dealer can or can't do and are a nightmare to reclaim costs from. I know it is crap to have an issue like this but I have some sympathy for the dealer as well. They have a fault that after hundreds of kms still has never occurred for them and in all likelihood they are not getting paid for any of the work they have done so far. Now the customer is getting angry, but what exactly do you think they should do? You cannot simply spend thousands of euros replacing parts willy nilly for a fault that is not there.

[Deleted User]

Preset No.3 wrote: »

Email the CEO of the garage, also email the CEO of Ford Ireland and then start emailing Ford USA. As much as I believe in being polite this has gone beyond a joke and I would be kicking up blue murder at this stage. So you bought a new van to have these problems? Do they think you are making this up???? Why would anyone do that?????

How was the van paid for? Ford Finance, bank or outright?

Have written to the General Managers and Phoned Ford Customer Services. I must say, Ford Customer Services either renegaded on their promise to get in touch with the dealership or else the Service Manager is filling me full of the proverbial and since he has been filling me full of s*1T since day one I think it may well be the latter...... Ford eh, you live and learn....

[Deleted User]

Jb1989 wrote: »

If it was shuddering for long periods could you not have pulled up at garage ang got them into straight away before it stopped again?

20 seconds violently juddering and one hour or more away from the dealership.....besides its not as if it only occurs during opening hours and asides from that a replacement small van has to be arranged from a hire company each time this happens necessitating transferring my insurance to the rental. I am only just touching the tip of the grief involved each time it has gone back.......

[Deleted User]

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why on earth do you think this is a good idea? No garage is going to spend hundreds of euro stripping down an engine for a fault that has never once happened for them, and in terms of a garage 400kms is certainly a good enough effort to let that fault actually happen.

Seriously, say they remove the injectors, send them to diesel services for testing, then refit the injectors and nothing has changed, then who is paying the bill for the injector testing? Ford certainly won't and nor should they.

Do not do this, you will not get any third party expenses paid under any circumstances. Please note however that any Ford garage can work at any Ford vehicle under warranty, if you think the dealer isn't doing enough you can go to another one. Personally, I don't think it will make a difference. If the fault has never happened then there is next to nothing any garage can do about it, you cannot fix a fault that isn't happening for you. There is no magic button that a different dealer can press to tell them what is going on.

Speaking in general terms, Ford as a manufacturer are an awful company with regards to warranty. They are extremely tight on what a dealer can or can't do and are a nightmare to reclaim costs from. I know it is crap to have an issue like this but I have some sympathy for the dealer as well. They have a fault that after hundreds of kms still has never occurred for them and in all likelihood they are not getting paid for any of the work they have done so far. Now the customer is getting angry, but what exactly do you think they should do? You cannot simply spend thousands of euros replacing parts willy nilly for a fault that is not there.

Personally, I don't think it will make a difference. If the fault has never happened then there is next to nothing any garage can do about it, you cannot fix a fault that isn't happening for you. There is no magic button that a different dealer can press to tell them what is going on.

Absurd statement. There is a fault inherent in the product (i.e. vehicle). It is not the customers problem how much it costs to find, fix and repair nor the customers problem who (dealer or Ford) meets the costs necessary to fix it.

It is of course correct that neither Ford nor the dealership want to do this however my wants for a properly functioning vehicle as per what was sold to me superceeds Ford or the dealers greed or laziness.

Faulty goods are faulty goods full stop. I imagine if you bought a faulty P.C. and couldn't get a replacement then if the shop told you it was too expensive to take it apart and look for what is causing the fault and by the way could you please just go away and accept that you have been sold a faulty product and leave us alone....... Acceptable ! I think not.

You need to have a good look at the sale of goods act and the various consumer protection legislation just as I am now doing.

I am wary of getting solicitors involved at this stage but no doubt any sensible common sense advice would run totally counter to your illogical argument, i.e. the dealer or Ford couldn't be bothered because it involves expense so please be happy with a faulty vehicle........

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, I don't think it will make a difference. If the fault has never happened then there is next to nothing any garage can do about it, you cannot fix a fault that isn't happening for you. There is no magic button that a different dealer can press to tell them what is going on.

Absurd statement. There is a fault inherent in the product (i.e. vehicle). It is not the customers problem how much it costs to find, fix and repair nor the customers problem who (dealer or Ford) meets the costs necessary to fix it.

It is of course correct that neither Ford nor the dealership want to do this however my wants for a properly functioning vehicle as per what was sold to me superceeds Ford or the dealers greed or laziness.

Faulty goods are faulty goods full stop. I imagine if you bought a faulty P.C. and couldn't get a replacement then if the shop told you it was too expensive to take it apart and look for what is causing the fault and by the way could you please just go away and accept that you have been sold a faulty product and leave us alone....... Acceptable ! I think not.

You need to have a good look at the sale of goods act and the various consumer protection legislation just as I am now doing.

I am wary of getting solicitors involved at this stage but no doubt any sensible common sense advice would run totally counter to your illogical argument, i.e. the dealer or Ford couldn't be bothered because it involves expense so please be happy with a faulty vehicle........

Oh, by the way I thought it might be a good idea if the garage had a look to find out what is causing the problem and where the fault in the vehicle is....... No one wants to be wandering back and forth to a dealership going through a pile of hassle and tripe for no reason other than the fun of it.

I don't expect them to have a magic button but if you manufacture a vehicle you should really have the expertise to pull it apart and find whats broken, but then that's me. I'm silly that way. I think that people who make things should be able to fix the broken ones they make.............

Magic button, could you get more disparaging if you tried...........

[Deleted User]

Jb1989 wrote: »

If it was shuddering for long periods could you not have pulled up at garage ang got them into straight away before it stopped again?

It was juddering so badly I thought Iwas driving a broken juggernaut...... no way you could carry on without pulling in, and hey presto, each time it drives off again fine. It's a right pain....

[Deleted User]

I have formally written looking for a replacement van for the reason that the dealership couldn't or wouldn't be bothered looking effectively and proactively to find the fault and I didn't pay to buy a faulty van..... I do not like having to pull off the motorway into the hard shoulder when things are going belly up with it nor does her indoors...... We shall see but needless to say I am not a happy camper with Ford so unfortunately this will be the last Ford in the Garden which is a shame as I always used to like the various Fords but if this is the rigamarole involved with them I think I'll stick to buying second hand in future. Should things not pan out it will mean that a new car warranty is, in many instances useless. Scary really to think you buy new but it just may not be worth the premium.