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Do you have a pension?

One More Toy

Was sitting around at work talking about it, I was the only one of my colleagues to have one set up, and contributing the maximum, why is there such disregard in the Irish population towards private pensions? The state one wont provide the greatest of living standards yet people put it off, even into their forties:eek:

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Barely There

KomradeBishop wrote: »

It's amazing as well, how people think they know how the condition of state pensions will be in 30+ years time (invariably bad, insecure), and of private pensions as well (invariably good, extremely secure; tax benefits! returns above inflation and economic growth!)

It's not very amazing at all.

Population trends are very easy to predict.
Simply put, these trends combined with ever increasing life expectancy will mean there will be more OAPs and less working people in 30 years time - that is a fact.
To maintain the current rate of the state pension in the future would require penal taxes on those working.
It won't happen.

On the other hand, long term trends in the equities and investment markets (going back a century) allow reasonably accurate long term assessments of future growth to be predicted.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

If people want a good investment on their efforts, being politically active in bolstering public pensions is probably the single best way to go about it.

Depending on the state to fund your retirement is the single worst idea you could conceive.

People like you will be bitching and moaning in 30 years time about the unfairness of it all.

Quite frankly, I won't be shedding too many tears for you.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I'm going to be one of those die in the chair types, no retirement for me sir.

[Deleted User]

Barely There wrote: »

It's not very amazing at all.

Population trends are very easy to predict.
Simply put, these trends combined with ever increasing life expectancy will mean there will be more OAPs and less working people in 30 years time - that is a fact.

People don't get older, that's just anti govt propaganda

_Kaiser_

I had one with a private sector company for 7 years, then a public one for just under 5 years. They're still idling somewhere.

Don't have one at the moment, basically because I can't afford it and the scheme isn't great anyway

hmmm

KomradeBishop wrote: »

It's amazing as well, how people think they know how the condition of state pensions will be in 30+ years time

Simple maths.

KomradeBishop

Barely There wrote: »

It's not very amazing at all.

Population trends are very easy to predict.
Simply put, these trends combined with ever increasing life expectancy will mean there will be more OAPs and less working people in 30 years time - that is a fact.
To maintain the current rate of the state pension in the future would require penal taxes on those working.
It won't happen.

On the other hand, long term trends in the equities and investment markets (going back a century) allow reasonably accurate long term assessments of future growth to be predicted.

You're talking about the state as if its finances operate, as if it was a household or business - they don't, the quality of the states finances are linked to the quality of Ireland's economy (better economy = better tax intake), and you have no idea what state Ireland's economy will be in, in 30+ years time.

It's funny as well, how people don't apply that very same logic, to private pensions: Smaller proportion of young vs old people working in the future, means you pay into private pensions today, to fund more for todays pensioners, than you will get yourself in the future - by the exact same logic.

Given the differences in how public vs private finances work, it's funny how that criticism actually only applies to private funds, yet posters try to pretend it is the opposite way around.

Barely There wrote: »

Depending on the state to fund your retirement is the single worst idea you could conceive.

People like you will be bitching and moaning in 30 years time about the unfairness of it all.

Quite frankly, I won't be shedding too many tears for you.

Yea more of the 'private good, public bad' bullshít:rolleyes:

I don't think anybody in this thread has advocated on relying on a public pension either - don't know here you're getting the idea that I am anyway, as I've explicitly said that I'd be preferring saving my money (or investing it in my own manner), rather than giving it to any pension fund.

hmmm

Barely There wrote: »

People like you will be bitching and moaning in 30 years time about the unfairness of it all.

They will, and they'll be looking greedily at those of us who have pensions and looking for levies to ensure "equality". That's the biggest danger to people with pensions in the long term.

KomradeBishop

bluewolf wrote: »

People don't get older, that's just anti govt propaganda

Yes because people arguing that private pensions = not all their cracked up to be, also = arguing that old people should go without any financial support in their old age, right? (because following the logic others are implying, there is no way other than private pensions, to fund retirement, ya?)

KomradeBishop

hmmm wrote: »

Simple maths.

'Maths' won't tell you anything about the economic conditions of the future, that are relevant to state or private pensions (they will only give you predictions). Economists had an abundance of 'maths' to help them fail to see/predict our current economic conditions coming.

KomradeBishop

hmmm wrote: »

They will, and they'll be looking greedily at those of us who have pensions and looking for levies to ensure "equality". That's the biggest danger to people with pensions in the long term.

Ha - so now future private pensions have gone from being 'secure' and a sure thing, to being in 'danger' due to the public pension advocates - people can't even keep their narrative consistent.

Barely There

KomradeBishop wrote: »

or investing it in my own manner

Good luck with the money-tree plantations.

Greentopia

Nope, no pension and don't ever intend to pay into one.
Studying for something that's my passion and would do if I wasn't paid for it so intend to work in that area plus another creative field until I drop dead or get sick and can't work any more. Then I'll just live on any savings I have plus the state pension, will do me fine.

alb

hmmm wrote: »

They will, and they'll be looking greedily at those of us who have pensions and looking for levies to ensure "equality". That's the biggest danger to people with pensions in the long term.

Tax the rich, they'll say! Of course the rich will include those who planned private pensions.

The state pension is a pyramid scheme, where the money being paid in now is being spent now. I don't know why we consider this acceptable. If the next generation cannot afford our pensions, or out number us enough to vote to reduce the payouts we get screwed.

Private pensions with middle men slicing off annual chunks don't appeal much to me either. I manage my own finances as best I can. Self directed, low fee pension that takes advantage of the tax breaks seems like the best option.

Geuze

RayM wrote: »

Frankly, it bores the tits off me.

Thinking about, and planning, your sources of income for maybe 30 years of your life is important.

Maybe not exciting, but important.

Geuze

Greentopia wrote: »

Nope, no pension and don't ever intend to pay into one.
Studying for something that's my passion and would do if I wasn't paid for it so intend to work in that area plus another creative field until I drop dead or get sick and can't work any more. Then I'll just live on any savings I have plus the state pension, will do me fine.

You must pay into the State Pension, it's called PRSI contributions.

Menas

And right on queue the government are talking about increasing the state pension by a fiver a week ahead of the general election.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/kenny-targeting-grey-vote-with-5-pension-rise-31437339.html

Greentopia

Geuze wrote: »

You must pay into the State Pension, it's called PRSI contributions.

That's contributory, I was talking about the non contributory pension.

boobar

Set one up in my 20s....

Would not like to live out my old age on the state pension, that would be grim.

Having said that, I intend to work for as long as I can....the idea of retirement fills me with dread.

When my father retired at 63, he really struggled...no hobbies and completely lost.

Greentopia

Menas wrote: »

And right on queue the government are talking about increasing the state pension by a fiver a week ahead of the general election.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/kenny-targeting-grey-vote-with-5-pension-rise-31437339.html

And? There are old people on the State pension who can't afford basics like being able to heat their house properly in winter or pay for medicines, and now with water charges they're being asked to find money for another bill.
I don't begrudge them an extra €5. In fact I'd raise it a lot more than that paid for it with a tax on financial services or a wealth tax.

Bubbaclaus

Greentopia wrote: »

And? There are old people on the State pension who can't afford basics like being able to heat their house properly in winter or pay for medicines, and now with water charges they're being asked to find money for another bill.
I don't begrudge them an extra €5. In fact I'd raise it a lot more than that paid for it with a tax on financial services or a wealth tax.

Rabble rabble tax the rich rabble rabble

osarusan

How much is the non contributory state pension?

kazamo

Greentopia wrote: »

And? There are old people on the State pension who can't afford basics like being able to heat their house properly in winter or pay for medicines, and now with water charges they're being asked to find money for another bill.
I don't begrudge them an extra €5. In fact I'd raise it a lot more than that paid for it with a tax on financial services or a wealth tax.

I agree it should be more than an extra fiver.
These pensioners were around when tax rates were a hell of a lot higher than they are now.

How to fund it......apply BIK to employer pension contributions.
If BIK is applied to other employer paid benefits such as cars, health insurance etc, would only seem fair to apply it to pensions also.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Greentopia wrote: »

Nope, no pension and don't ever intend to pay into one.
Studying for something that's my passion and would do if I wasn't paid for it so intend to work in that area plus another creative field until I drop dead or get sick and can't work any more. Then I'll just live on any savings I have plus the state pension, will do me fine.

Greentopia wrote: »

And? There are old people on the State pension who can't afford basics like being able to heat their house properly in winter or pay for medicines, and now with water charges they're being asked to find money for another bill.
I don't begrudge them an extra €5. In fact I'd raise it a lot more than that paid for it with a tax on financial services or a wealth tax.

So you want additional pension without contributing yourself?

Greentopia

boobar wrote: »

Set one up in my 20s....

Would not like to live out my old age on the state pension, that would be grim.

Having said that, I intend to work for as long as I can....the idea of retirement fills me with dread.

When my father retired at 63, he really struggled...no hobbies and completely lost.

There's a way around your father's fate- do something that makes you happy then you won't want to retire.
Most of my friends work in jobs they love- one is a guitar luthier, a few more artists, photographer, Permaculturists and gardeners...If you love your work and it's your passion you won't want to retire.

Greentopia

Ronnie Worried Workaholic wrote: »

So you want additional pension without contributing yourself?

I wasn't advocating it for myself. But I do contribute already with taxes and charges I pay. Not income tax at the moment as I'm a student right now but that will change when I do work.
And I'll look into making a PRSI contribution if I'm self employed.

Greentopia

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Rabble rabble tax the rich rabble rabble

Yes, tax the super wealthy who have gotten richer during austerity while avoiding paying taxes (Denis O Brien doubling his wealth in the past five years) while working class people have been screwed to the wall with cuts, extra taxes and charges.

Diamond Doll

I've one set up but there's feck all in it so far.

Currently I pay 3% of salary (the minimum contribution on our company scheme), and the company pays 5% of salary.

I'm currently just about under the threshold for the higher rate of tax, so I guess the tax efficient thing to do will be to increase the pension as/when/if my salary increases, so that I don't actually end up paying tax at the higher rate at all.

FURET

There are no reputable pension plans where I live, so I don't have one. But every month I invest around 80% of my income into stock and bond market index-tracking ETFs:

FTSE Developed Europe (520 European businesses; 40% of portfolio)
S&P 500 (500 US businesses; 22% of portfolio)
FTSE Emerging Markets (1000 businesses in emerging markets; 8% of portfolio)
US Short-Term Bonds (thousands of bonds, gov. and corporate; 7% of portfolio)
European short term corporate bonds (hundreds of bonds; 23% of portfolio)

The total cost of this self-managed investment is 0.13%. If the past hundred years of market data is anything to go by, I can expect it to grow by around 7 to 8% per year over 20-30 years.

I am highly diversified, owning a huge number of great businesses as a result. I don't plan on relying on any tax-payer or state cheque to fund my retirement. I'll do it myself.

Bubbaclaus

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes, tax the super wealthy who have gotten richer during austerity while avoiding paying taxes (Denis O Brien doubling his wealth in the past five years) while working class people have been screwed to the wall with cuts, extra taxes and charges.

So you want DOB to pay for your retirement essentially?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

FURET wrote: »

There are no reputable pension plans where I live, so I don't have one. But every month I invest around 80% of my income into stock and bond market index-tracking ETFs:
FTSE Developed Europe (520 European businesses; 40% of portfolio)

S&P 500 (500 US businesses; 22% of portfolio)

FTSE Emerging Markets (1000 businesses in emerging markets; 8% of portfolio)

US Short-Term Bonds (thousands of bonds, gov. and corporate; 7% of portfolio)

European short term corporate bonds (hundreds of bonds; 23% of portfolio)

The total cost of this self-managed investment is 0.13%. If the past hundred years of market data is anything to go by, I can expect it to grow by around 7 to 8% per year over 20-30 years.

I am highly diversified, owning a huge number of great businesses as a result. I don't plan on relying on any tax-payer or state cheque to fund my retirement. I'll do it myself.

This type of plan seems the way to go, the only issue being if there is another global financial melt down. But your money isn't safe anywhere if that happens do its a moot point I suppose.