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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

Hammer Archer

New thread continued from here.

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

This is consistently the most active thread don the GAA forum. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

- Personal abuse of anyone be they other posters, players, managers, referees, pundits etc. Any personal abuse will result in an infraction or a ban.

- Rumours about players'/managers'/anyone's personal lives. This should be self explanatory. Apart from being a dickish thing to do, it can lead to legal trouble for Boards.

- Trolling. Again, self explanatory. Trolls will be banned for a long time.

- Accusations of trolling. Report a post if you suspect it to be trolling. Do not call a troll out on thread as this will be considered back seat modding.

- Speculation into the identity of another poster. This is a site-bannable offence.

This list is not exhaustive. Either myself or another mod may add to this as we see fit. Just because a certain behaviour isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't be banned for it.
The general Boards.ie rule of Don't be a Dick always applies.

If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

So be civil to each other and happy posting.

***EDIT (20/11/2015): Quite frankly I'm getting a bit sick of the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters. From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.

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robopaddy2

seananigans wrote: »

apologies for spamming the forum this evening but 2 more things

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/0108152011-cummins-wins-his-ninth-poc-fada-title/
U-16 Hurling
1. Shaun Murray (Waterford) – 25 pocs 59m wins u 16 poc fada (don't know which club)

My Club: Philip Mahony (Ballygunner)

http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/3007151057-my-club-philip-mahony-ballygunner/

Shaun Murray is dungarvan. Good prospect aswell.

Its safe to say the Mahonys are Ballygunner to the absolute core!

seananigans

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Shaun Murray is dungarvan. Good prospect aswell.

Its safe to say the Mahonys are Ballygunner to the absolute core!

one thing about that article

2his younger brother Pauric (currently injured) are among the large contingent from the club on the current Waterford squad, which also includes Barry Coughlan, Stephen O’Keeffe and Brian O’Sullivan. Philip’s uncles, Billy and Shane O’Sullivan, have also worn the blue and white of Waterford with distinction."

Shane is still on the panel, granted no game time, but he hasn't retired yet

Giveitfong

The Munster Under 21 final between Limerick and Clare was an enjoyable enough game, but there is no avoiding the fact that a properly set up and motivated Waterford would have had the measure of either of these teams.

Clare, as usual, were well drilled (perhaps overly so) and highly committed, but the failure of their two senior county men, Shane O’Donnell and Bobby Duggan, to have a major impact was their undoing. O’Donnell got a fair amount of ball, but did little enough damage with it. Waterford set up to prevent O’Donnell getting any ball at all, and while that worked well, it left us weakened in other parts of the field. Undoubtedly we were over-cautious in our approach here.

Duggan was obliterated by the Limerick right half back Diarmuid Byrnes who was my man of the match. Not one of the national newspapers covering the game even mentioned him. Interestingly, Ian Galvin was causing a lot of problems for the other Limerick wing back, Gearóid Hegarty, to which the Limerick mentors reacted by whipping him off early in the second half. Waterford had similar problems against Clare, but the selectors indulged instead in rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic as the ship sank.

Limerick’s one senior county player, Cian Lynch, had an outstanding second half carrying the game to Clare and for me would have been second in line for man of the match (John Allen gave it to the freetaker Ronan Lynch). If even one more of our seven senior county players (apart from the honourable exception of Patrick Curran) had made a similar contribution, Waterford would certainly have been there last Thursday night instead of Clare.

Giveitfong

On what was a very wet Sunday, I looked at the Waterford/Dublin game again and put together some statistics which might be of interest.
Looking first of all at possessions (where players took the ball in hand), it might surprise to learn that Waterford had more possessions than Dublin in the first half (68/54) but Dublin had a lot more possessions in the second half (76/54). Over the whole game, therefore, Dublin had 134 possessions to Waterford’s 122.

So why were Dublin not able to turn this superiority in possessions into a winning total? It was not due to shooting inaccuracy, as Dublin had only six wides to Waterford’s eleven. Part of the answer is that a lot of Dublin’s possessions in the second half (in particular) involved lateral passing across the field in the midfield area which did little damage.

Another part of the answer is that Dublin’s two full backs (Cian O’Callaghan and Paul Schutte) only had four possessions between them in the first half but 12 in the second half, reflecting the greater pressure they came under after the change of ends.

A third part of the answer is that Waterford worked much harder in the second half to prevent Dublin from making good use of their possession – in the first half I counted just five hooks/blocks/tackles but this rose to 16 in the second half.

There were some other plays such as flicks and balls played off the hurley without being taken in hand. There were few enough of these. I reckon that the strike by Shane Bennett for Waterford’s first goal was the only ground ball struck by a Waterford player in the entire match, which is reflection of just how much hurling has changed in recent years. I was watching a match from 1997 between Kilkenny and Galway on TG4 recently and I was amazed by how much ground striking there was, and how often the ball was hit long up the field without the player in question looking up.

I have made up the following table of how many possessions each Waterford player had, and (in brackets) how often these possessions were put to good use.

Used well
Stephen O’Keeffe 5 (4)
Shane Fives 5 (5)
Barry Coughlan 1 (1)
Noel Connors 0 (0)
Darragh Fives 11 (6)
Tadhg de Búrca 11 (7)
Philip Mahony 8 (8)
Jamie Barron 12 (7)
Kevin Moran 17 (9)
Austin Gleeson 7 (7)
Brick Walsh 13 (12)
Jake Dillon 7 (6)
Maurice Shanahan 8 (5)
Shane Bennett 9 (4)
Colin Dunford 8 (3)
Stephen Daniels 3 (2)
Patrick Curran 2 (1)

Kevin Moran was way ahead of everyone else in terms of possessions (17) but frequently he used these poorly, especially in the first half. While his contribution to the team is massive in terms of his inspirational ability to win ball and drive forward, poor use of the ball has, unfortunately, been a recurring feature of his play, especially his tendency to run into cul-de-sacs when driving forward. We saw two examples of this in the first half against Dublin.

Compare this with Brick Walsh, who had the second highest number of possessions (13), all but one of which were used well. This combination of work rate and constructive play on Brick’s part has been a crucial factor in Waterford’s revival this year.

Jamie Barron, Tadhg de Búrca and Darragh Fives were the other Waterford players with possessions in double figures. I think Barron doesn’t protect the ball enough when running with it, which leaves him open to being dispossessed. Darragh Fives got on the ball a lot, but lacked a little sharpness in disposing of it, which is understandable, given his long layoff.

Austin Gleeson only had seven possessions, but used them all well (a big improvement on previous games). While Philip Mahony also used all his eight possessions well, I am concerned about his ability to challenge for ball in the air. Danny Sutcliffe won four balls in direct contests with him, and had eleven possessions in all, which is a lot. Given how good Kilkenny are in the air, I would be a bit worried about this weakness for next Sunday.

The media pundits also all seemed to think that Dublin had assigned Ryan O’Dwyer to mark Tadhg de Búrca, but it seemed to me to be the other way around i.e. that, rather than playing his usual deep-lying sweeper role, it was de Búrca who was marking O’Dwyer. De Búrca also encountered problems in this role, losing four balls in direct contests with O’Dwyer, including a first half point and the ball which led to Dublin’s goal. I would like to see de Búrca putting on another half stone of muscle, in order to bring greater body strength to these contests.

It is interesting to note that Barry Coughlan only had one possession in the entire game, and Noel Connors had none at all during his 30 minutes on the pitch. Given that he was having a hard time on Dotsy O’Callaghan, it might have been as well that he got injured, and what was noticeable was how seamlessly Waterford adapted to his departure, although I would have put Daniels in the corner with Darragh Fives remaining in the half back line.

A few further points. A couple of media pundits wrote about how Dublin’s Shane Barrett did a good job shadowing Kevin Moran, but seeing as Kevin had 17 possessions and Barrett just one, this clearly was nonsense. One might also ask who (if anyone) was detailed to mark Conal Keaney when he came out the field in the second half, during which he had twice as many possession (six) as he had in the first half.

Jake Dillon only had two possessions in the second half, compared with five in the first. Colin Dunford had seven possessions in the first half but only one in the second (the scoring chance that he put wide). Shane Bennett also had seven possessions in the first half and only two in the second. Those statistics go a long way in explaining the fall in the number of Waterford possessions after the change of ends.

Apart from Maurice Shanahan's frees, six Waterford players had shots at goal during the game. Austin Gleeson led the way with six shots, two of which he missed (both sidelines). Shane Bennett had five shots (four misses), Colin Dunford had five shots (three misses) and Maurice Shanahan also had five shots (two misses). Jake Dillon had one shot (scored). We probably need to widen our scoring base, with two forwards (Brick and Jake Dillon) managing just one shot between them.

skaface

Tickets for the Hill purchased today
Can't wait for this match now!!

danganabu

Giveitfong wrote: »

Ian Galvin was causing a lot of problems for the other Limerick wing back, Gearóid Hegarty, to which the Limerick mentors reacted by whipping him off early in the second half. Waterford had similar problems against Clare, but the selectors indulged instead in rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic as the ship sank..

To be fair to Hegarty he was taken off injured, he is a fine fine player as well and was excellent against Tipp.

Tramore84

Giveitfong wrote: »

The Munster Under 21 final between Limerick and Clare was an enjoyable enough game, but there is no avoiding the fact that a properly set up and motivated Waterford would have had the measure of either of these teams.

Clare, as usual, were well drilled (perhaps overly so) and highly committed, but the failure of their two senior county men, Shane O’Donnell and Bobby Duggan, to have a major impact was their undoing. O’Donnell got a fair amount of ball, but did little enough damage with it. Waterford set up to prevent O’Donnell getting any ball at all, and while that worked well, it left us weakened in other parts of the field. Undoubtedly we were over-cautious in our approach here.

Duggan was obliterated by the Limerick right half back Diarmuid Byrnes who was my man of the match. Not one of the national newspapers covering the game even mentioned him. Interestingly, Ian Galvin was causing a lot of problems for the other Limerick wing back, Gearóid Hegarty, to which the Limerick mentors reacted by whipping him off early in the second half. Waterford had similar problems against Clare, but the selectors indulged instead in rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic as the ship sank.

Limerick’s one senior county player, Cian Lynch, had an outstanding second half carrying the game to Clare and for me would have been second in line for man of the match (John Allen gave it to the freetaker Ronan Lynch). If even one more of our seven senior county players (apart from the honourable exception of Patrick Curran) had made a similar contribution, Waterford would certainly have been there last Thursday night instead of Clare.

That U21 game was disappointing but the Dublin game was much more important in my view.

enoughtaken

I have a ticket spare for Sunday. Face Value. Section 305 Row J. Message me if interested.

Ropaire

I'm seriously regretting not renewing my season ticket for this year, bit the bullet and got tickets this morning but they're not in the best spot. Still, only delighted to be in Croke Park at all in August and won't complain at all. Roll on Sunday! Is it tomorrow the teams are named?

Deisegodeo

Really poor tickets available in SuperValu, Tickets.ie and Ticketmaster.

Doesnt look like the Upper Tiers will be available at all which is disappointing.

Hopefully there will be some better tickets available later in the week when the clubs give back what hasnt been sold.

Going to hold tough for the time being

blue note

Does anyone think they'd be better off playing it in semple? Or what would be great is if they'd play the two semis as a double header in croker.

tomwaterford

blue note wrote: »

Does anyone think they'd be better off playing it in semple? Or what would be great is if they'd play the two semis as a double header in croker.

On the off chance Waterford somehow pull off beating kk,..I wouldn't want to be facing into an all Ireland final with it being the first game in croke park all year

KevIRL

blue note wrote: »

Does anyone think they'd be better off playing it in semple? Or what would be great is if they'd play the two semis as a double header in croker.

Prob would make sense but its nice to have the 2 big days.

seananigans

Deisegodeo wrote: »

Really poor tickets available in SuperValu, Tickets.ie and Ticketmaster.

Doesnt look like the Upper Tiers will be available at all which is disappointing.

Hopefully there will be some better tickets available later in the week when the clubs give back what hasnt been sold.

Going to hold tough for the time being

eventually got tickets in sections 310 havign checked the website about 5 times, not great but greater than what was there

Alf Tupper

PTH2009 wrote: »

Cusack lower back on sale

Donal Og?

KevIRL

Richie hogan struggling with a back injury is the latest on the kk thread

PTH2009

What time are tickets on sale in Walsh park tomorrow ??

DE DEISE

PTH2009 wrote: »

What time are tickets on sale in Walsh park tomorrow ??

Tickets Throw in at 11.30am - 2.00pm

The blue blaa

Anyone here following the minor club championship?? Passage are really racking up some high scores and Cois Bride aswell two relatively smaller clubs compared to the usual suspects it's great to ee for our county teams of the future, suprised to see mount sion are in the B grade..

Take no prisoners

I see PP have cut our odds to 5-2 and moved the handicap from 4 to 3. Probably due to the injury stories coming from the KK camp. Really hope we put it up to them from the off on Sunday, keep it tight and get a foothold in the game. Must say I'll be disappointed if the attendance is less than 50k considering gap since our last Croker visit and the excitement that comes with a coming team. KK fans are hardly saving their cash for the final.

robopaddy2

KevIRL wrote: »

Richie hogan struggling with a back injury is the latest on the kk thread

I have a sneaking suspicion he'll be ok

HatchetMan7

robopaddy2 wrote: »

I have a sneaking suspicion he'll be ok

I'd also be surprised if Mick Fennelly doesn't start. He may not have a huge amount of work done but a player of his quality will still pose big problems around the middle for Waterford.

dobbs2210

Can anybody give me specific directions to get to Colligan rockies/emmets GAA club driving from Kilkenny. Thanks in advance.

HatchetMan7

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Can anybody give me specific directions to get to Colligan rockies/emmets GAA club driving from Kilkenny. Thanks in advance.

This may not be the quickest way but the easiest to explain and it still isn't easy.
Coming from Waterford City about 3 km outside Dungarvan you'll pass the Dungarvan Golf Course on your left hand side (Part of it visible from the road) and a wooded area on the right hand side.
Take the next right on to the N72.

Stay on this relatively straight but undulating road for about 5/6 km (rough guess) until you come to the first yield sign beside a petrol station.
Take the next right onto the R672 which is at the Master Macgrath monument ( across the road from a machinery hire yard).

Now this is where it may get tricky.

I would probably stay on this narrower road for about 5/6 km (again a very rough guess). This road is mostly up hill. Take it all in cause there is some nice views around that area.
The pitch is on your right hand side below the road about 250 meters from the turn off. The turn off is on a left bend on the road. It should be sign posted for the Colligan Gaa pitch.

Good luck with that and if you see any sheep on the road don't panic that's normal around those parts.

Gardner

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

I'd also be surprised if Mick Fennelly doesn't start. He may not have a huge amount of work done but a player of his quality will still pose big problems around the middle for Waterford.

i can tell ya now he will be starting and so will Hogan

robopaddy2

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

This may not be the quickest way but the easiest to explain and it still isn't easy.
Coming from Waterford City about 3 km outside Dungarvan you'll pass the Dungarvan Golf Course on your left hand side (Part of it visible from the road) and a wooded area on the right hand side.
Take the next right on to the N72.

Stay on this relatively straight but undulating road for about 5/6 km (rough guess) until you come to the first yield sign beside a petrol station.
Take the next right onto the R672 which is at the Master Macgrath monument ( across the road from a machinery hire yard).

Now this is where it may get tricky.

I would probably stay on this narrower road for about 5/6 km (again a very rough guess). This road is mostly up hill. Take it all in cause there is some nice views around that area.
The pitch is on your right hand side below the road about 250 meters from the turn off. The turn off is on a left bend on the road. It should be sign posted for the Colligan Gaa pitch.

Good luck with that and if you see any sheep on the road don't panic that's normal around those parts.

Holy moses where are you trying to send him at all, Faha?

HatchetMan7

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Holy moses where are you trying to send him at all, Faha?

Ha ha i know this area very well and i don't think there's an easier route unless they travel on the old Kilkenny to clonmel road. Which in hindsight may actually be easier although not by much.

robopaddy2

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Ha ha i know this area very well and i don't think there's an easier route unless they travel on the old Kilkenny to clonmel road. Which in hindsight may actually be easier although not by much.

Depends where in KK yore coming from. Yea only way for directions' sake is down the M7 motorway as far as Waterford, then hit for Dungarvan. Take the Lismore/Killarney turnoff about 3 miles before Dungarvan, continue on until you come to the Pike Service Station take a right, then another right straight away just after the Master McGrath Pub, towards Clonmel. Continue on 5/6 miles on this road. Take the 4th turn-off to your right and Colligan GAA pitch is down a couple hundred metres as you say. .

Or you could just use the auld Shat-Nav

HatchetMan7

robopaddy2 wrote: »

Depends where in KK yore coming from. Yea only way for directions' sake is down the M7 motorway as far as Waterford, then hit for Dungarvan. Take the Lismore/Killarney turnoff about 3 miles before Dungarvan, continue on until you come to the Pike Service Station take a right, then another right straight away just after the Master McGrath Pub, towards Clonmel. Continue on 5/6 miles on this road. Take the 4th turn-off to your right and Colligan GAA pitch is down a couple hundred metres as you say. .

Or you could just use the auld Shat-Nav

"miles" i thought we were using the metric system now

boodiebhoy

Gardner wrote: »

i can tell ya now he will be starting and so will Hogan

Kilkenny will start with 15 and will have 5 subs and whoever is in that will cause us enough problems. I hope we start with same 15 as last game. Our work rate will need to be huge and I don't think that is a problem with this team as they are the most honest bunch of hurlers we have had. Our use of the subs is going to be key. It is a cliche at this stage that it is a 20 man game now but I think we are also better served here than at any stage in the past. Really looking forward to it and think we have a great chance. No time like the present even for a young team. Hon Deise