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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

Hammer Archer

New thread continued from here.

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

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***EDIT (20/11/2015): Quite frankly I'm getting a bit sick of the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters. From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.

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HatchetMan7

Good win by the players and management on Sunday. Looking at the game again and you could see numerous occasions where there were goal chances on and we didn't take them. There was at least 2/3 chances in the first half and the player in possession didn't look up. The first thought of a good forward when he wins possession should be to pass the ball not shoot. Obviously you can't be overly critical as some of these players are still very young and they did seem to rectify this to some degree in the 2nd half, but at the same time if Waterford have any thoughts of beating Kilkenny they'll need to take the few goal chances that come their way.
The biggest advantage that Kilkenny have over Waterford and most teams for that matter is their forwards aerial winning ability. That would be my biggest worry going into the semi final. Its vital that Waterford forwards put the Kilkenny backs under as much pressure as possible when the Kilkenny backs are trying to clear the ball. Waterfords discipline too has been very good this year usually only giving away a free as a last resort. The bookies have Kilkenny at 1/3 and Waterford 3/1 which is probably fair enough given their recent history. Its going to take a herculean like effort from Waterford to make it to the final but its not beyond the bounds of possibility.

HillFarmer

Ok, lets look forward to the Kilkenny match.
Below is their team that played in the Leinster final along with the scorers.

E Murphy;

P Murphy, J Holden, J Tyrrell;

P Walsh, K Joyce, C Buckley;

C Fogarty (0-01), W Walsh (0-02);

R Hogan (0-04), J Power, C Fennelly (0-02);

G Aylward (0-03), TJ Reid (1-09), E Larkin (0-04).

So if you were Derek Mcgrath what chinks / vunrabilities do you see to exploit? If our system can nullify 2 out of Hogan, Larkin and Reid I think we have a chance.

Would love to here people views.
Will Kilkenny employ the same tactic as Dublin and push a person forward on the sweeper?

If tyrell is out then the only experience in that full back line is Murphy, Holden is a new Fullback.

Will watch the Leinster final later

blueflame

Me thinks biggest culprit in Shanahan / Rushe affair is Eddie Brennan. The only two that really know what went on and what was said over the the entire game was Shanahan and Rushe, other than these two, everything else is pure speculation and heresay. While other commentators just made passing comment, spotlessly clean Eddie has decided to stick his oar in and tweet about it and turn it into a full blown debate. One has to suspect that there is either a bitterness or an ulterior motive to his comments. A superstar like Eddie from the kings of hurling with all those medals, could hardly have reason to be bitter against such lowly cannon fodder as Waterford , so the conspiracy theorist in me opts for "ulterior motive". Could Eddie be just a little bit nervous about the threat posed by Waterford and is seeking to "upset the apple cart" - time to draw a line under it lads and get back to real business at hand.

Mountainlad

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Well you won't win one by rolling around around theatrically like a Premiership diva, for certain.

For contrast, see T. Walsh ( 9 All Ireland's,9 All Stars) v B. Dunne, All Ireland Final 2009, about 54 mins in

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S6P0DYa7zu8

How many all Ireland's did Cha win again?

cornerboy

Mahogany Gaspipe wrote: »

Look the point that is Maurice Shanahan reaction to the incident was a tad dramatic.

Certainly it was unacceptable for Rushe to rise the hurl to another player head. However, there is simply no way that there was enough force behind that strike to cause Maurice to trip over; let alone collapse as if Mike Tyson strike him.

Anyway, I've my fingers crossed for a Waterford vs. Galway final. Tipp and Kilkenny have between them 59 All Ireland's more than Waterford and Galway do.

Maybe it wasn't the belt of the hurley across the head that got him......maybe it was the kick across the back of the legs just before it. If you think that any player from any county is going to stay on their feet having been kicked and then hit across the head......you're not of this planet.

hardybuck

This is all a bit silly.

Waterford are preparing for a huge test in a semi final in a couple of weeks against the favourites to win the competition.

Maurice Shanahan probably gave himself a good shot at an All Star following another strong performance, probably his best of the year to date.

Dublin will go back to the drawing board with a lot of work to do but with some cause for optimism following probably a better performance than they were expecting.

We should all be moving on.

deiseach

cornerboy wrote: »

Maybe it wasn't the belt of the hurley across the head that got him......maybe it was the kick across the back of the legs just before it. If you think that any player from any county is going to stay on their feet having been kicked and then hit across the head......you're not of this planet.

If only they knew they'd win All-Ireland medals by staying on their feet.

deiseach

hardybuck wrote: »

Waterford are preparing for a huge test in a semi final in a couple of weeks against the favourites to win the competition.

I'd say you couldn't pass a cigarette paper between Tipperary and Kilkenny at this point. The ease with which Galway swatted aside Cork might suggest that Tipp are going to have the tougher examination in the semi-final though.

chinguetti

Good win on Sunday and great to see them come out in the second half and put a bit of a kick on to pull away from Dublin. The work rate would have to be better the next day. I was at the Leinster final and KK were only in 3rd gear and suffocated Galway in the second half once they got level. Could be a low scoring game with packed defences and a lot of long range shooting and accuracy will be a big issue.

Waterford will have to take every half goal chance they create. Players will have to raise their heads and find the free man when inside the 45. Glesson, while a great talent for one so young, will have to stop trying the amazing and stop the 100 yard shots from all angles - as will the whole team.

Brick was outstanding - the amount of times he picked up tough balls and had 2 or 3 guys around him and managed to offload to a man outside! God, we don't appreciate him enough and that's the kind of work rate the team all need to be on.

Do we have a chance against KK? Yes, but its probably a step too far this year. The longer they stay with KK, the better they might adapt to the pitch and the confidence might grow. Ideally, I'ld love them to be 2 points down with 10 to go as those 10 minutes would tell us so much about the team and how far they have to go to make it. KK's levels are what they need to aim for and whether people like it or not, KK are the standard bearers for hurling with the last 10 years.

HillFarmer

Does anyone know who if the referee is confirmed for Sunday week?

thesultan

Are our backs good enough to match Kilkenny in the air?

hardybuck

thesultan wrote: »

Are our backs good enough to match Kilkenny in the air?

The two biggest concerns are TJ Reid and Hogan obviously.

How to play Hogan will be interesting. De Burca likes to drop deep and provide cover, which would be meat and drink to Hogan as he likes to come short and get on breaking ball around midfield. You saw the damage a relatively ordinary player in Ryan O'Dwyer caused the last day doing that. The answer might be to try and take out that space around the middle third.

You also saw the likes of Suthcliffe winning a decent bit of ball in the air, so they better have a plan for Reid as he'll be more dangerous again.

Dick phelan

A big concern is that we have not put together a full 70 min display, Against Cork we were off the pace for the first 20 minutes and were lucky to go in at half time in front, Against Tipp again in the first half we were 6-2 behind in the first 15 minutes. Yesterday again the first half display was below par, If we play like that against KK the game would have been over at half time the same can be said for the Cork game. It is absolutely vital we start well, with so many young lads playing their first senior game in Croker if we fall 5-6 points behind we might never get back.

galwaylad14

hardybuck wrote: »

The two biggest concerns are TJ Reid and Hogan obviously.

How to play Hogan will be interesting. De Burca likes to drop deep and provide cover, which would be meat and drink to Hogan as he likes to come short and get on breaking ball around midfield. You saw the damage a relatively ordinary player in Ryan O'Dwyer caused the last day doing that. The answer might be to try and take out that space around the middle third.

You also saw the likes of Suthcliffe winning a decent bit of ball in the air, so they better have a plan for Reid as he'll be more dangerous again.

Think ye'll probably have to play with effectively 2 centre backs to combat that exact issue. De Burca to sit deep and sweep and someone else just o man mark Hogan.

Hogan dropping deep killed us in the second half of the Leinster final I thought. He played a more traditional centre forward role in the first half and Daithi Burke managed him fairly well but when he went floating in the second half neither of our midfielders seemed keen to pick him up and he picked off a couple of scores and dictated the play from out there.

PTH2009

Are they going to open the upper tiers for the semi final ???. I remember for the 2011 semi final they didnt open them but for the last few years they were open. I much perfer the upper tier.

why do they only have a rebate for Cusack/Davin stand ticket holders whats so special about the hogan stand ???.

tickets online at the moment are crap so going to wait a while to get them

Dick phelan

Are the tickets only being sold online at the moment? Had a look there and the tickets online at the moment are poor.

PTH2009

Dick phelan wrote: »

Are the tickets only being sold online at the moment? Had a look there and the tickets online at the moment are poor.

on sale from Tickets.ie and Ticketmaster really poor tickets going to wait til they open the upper cusack

remember for the minor semi final (limerick vs Kilkenny senior) last year they started to sell upper cusack tickets about 10 days before the match online

tomwaterford

thesultan wrote: »

Are our backs good enough to match Kilkenny in the air?

Imho...they should be
Possible scrafice Moran/glee son to man mark Richie hogan (possibly Moran!)

Though I fear the game is 2or3 years too early....though I don't see that as a reason not to give it a right crack at kk

Can't see Maurice shanahan getting so much room the next day....a second ball winner may be required in the forwards??
Though dunford should do better in Croke park and should perhaps try run straighter to goal and relax a bit before shooting

redlead

tomwaterford wrote: »

Imho...they should be
Possible scrafice Moran/glee son to man mark Richie hogan (possibly Moran!)

Though I fear the game is 2or3 years too early....though I don't see that as a reason not to give it a right crack at kk

Can't see Maurice shanahan getting so much room the next day....a second ball winner may be required in the forwards??
Though dunford should do better in Croke park and should perhaps try run straighter to goal and relax a bit before shooting

Neither Moran or Gleeson strike me as man markers. We can't afford to sacrifice them to a man marking job either. With Fives in the team now we really need Gleesons class closer to the forwards like on Sunday to help us get scores from play. Bennett had his best game in Waterford jersey so far so I really hope we get him as close to the goal as possible.

I'd be inclined to just go out and play more of the same and hope the system takes care of their attack. It hasn't really failed us yet. We just need to make sure our accuracy is a lot better than it was against Tipp.

tomwaterford

Taught Moran with his past in defence could be up to it...but in hindsight we'll need someone with pace....could dunford be up to it

Mountainlad

tomwaterford wrote: »

Taught Moran with his past in defence could be up to it...but in hindsight we'll need someone with pace....could dunford be up to it

If he's going to play center forward and be man marked I'd say you'll see Jamie Barron on him.'

tomwaterford

Mountainlad wrote: »

If he's going to play center forward and be man marked I'd say you'll see Jamie Barron on him.'

Jesus I recall Jamie Barron filling in the centre back spot in the nowlan park massacre last year...bad memories

Though I know he tends to play as a kinda playmaker/midfieldeR

Mountainlad

tomwaterford wrote: »

Jesus I recall Jamie Barron filling in the centre back spot in the nowlan park massacre last year...bad memories

Though I know he tends to play as a kinda playmaker/midfieldeR

He was put on Colin Fennelly, was a physical mismatch. Hogan is obviously very strong with great balance but I still think this suits him better. But if you're marking Hogan it's a case of damage limitation anyway.

Either way, I'm only guessing.

HatchetMan7

HillFarmer wrote: »

Ok, lets look forward to the Kilkenny match.
Below is their team that played in the Leinster final along with the scorers.

E Murphy;

P Murphy, J Holden, J Tyrrell;

P Walsh, K Joyce, C Buckley;

C Fogarty (0-01), W Walsh (0-02);

R Hogan (0-04), J Power, C Fennelly (0-02);

G Aylward (0-03), TJ Reid (1-09), E Larkin (0-04).

So if you were Derek Mcgrath what chinks / vunrabilities do you see to exploit? If our system can nullify 2 out of Hogan, Larkin and Reid I think we have a chance.

Would love to here people views.
Will Kilkenny employ the same tactic as Dublin and push a person forward on the sweeper?

If tyrell is out then the only experience in that full back line is Murphy, Holden is a new Fullback.

Will watch the Leinster final later

I would think that Waterford will start with normal 6 backs and the sweeper (7 total) and either 2/3 in midfield and 4/5 in attack. Kilkenny will line out the normal 15. I would say that that's what the positioning will look like for both teams for the first 10 mins. After this both managers will start to tweak a few things here and their depending how the game is evolving.
The reason why Waterford should line out this way at the start is because Kilkenny always try and go for the jugular early on. It takes about 5/10 min for a lot of teams to get into the game where as Kilkenny usually hit the ground running. Waterford must keep it tight early on to gain confidence. But for Waterford to win this game they'll have to take some risks as the game progresses and IMO we'll need to get at least 2 goals because its hard to see us scoring more points over the 70 mins.
If there is a player that Waterford might be able to exploit in the Kilkenny backline it may be Joyce at centre back. Walsh is a very good wing back and Buckley is as good a wing back as is out there right now. Murphy is probably the best corner back in the country and Holden has dealt with everything thrown at him so far. Tyrrell hasn't had a good year so far by his own standards but he could be a different animal come semi final stage in Croke Park. (Prendergast looks solid enough if Tyrrell doesn't make it). Waterford will need to really mix up their play from moving the ball wide out the wings and pulling the corner backs and wing backs as far away from the centre as possible, to making deep runs through the centre off loading to secondary runners quickly.

Tramore84

deiseach wrote: »

I'd say you couldn't pass a cigarette paper between Tipperary and Kilkenny at this point. The ease with which Galway swatted aside Cork might suggest that Tipp are going to have the tougher examination in the semi-final though.

Agreed - its hard to call at this stage who will win the final, Tipp or Kk. The semi-finals should give a good indication of where their form is at. I think Kk would be better off getting a good test against Waterford.

carter10

Id go with

SOK

S FIVES B COUGHLAN N CONNORS

T de B

K MORAN D FIVES P MAHONY

J BARRON BRICK

A GLEESON J DILLON S BENNETT

Id start with that set up anyway. Would be losing Morans point scoring ability having him that far back. I dont have Dunford in as I think his confidence is low and his shooting has been off for the last 3 games. His pace may be an asset later in the game.

MAURICE P CURRAN

HatchetMan7

Here's an alternative 15 we could see (Que the jokes about formation)

S O' Keeffe

S Fives---B Coughlan---N Connors

T De Burca

S Daniels--D Fives--P Mahoney

K Moran

J Barron

J Dillon---M Walsh---A Gleeson

---M Shanahan---S Bennett---

HatchetMan7

Just read a piece on Stephan Daniels on the papers. He has been out since 2012, forgot how long he was out for. He has been putting ice on his knee every day for the last 2 and a half years. Now thats commitment fair play to him. Played well when he got the call. Thats what Waterford need players that can overcome adversity and he's not alone.

Tramore84

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Just read a piece on Stephan Daniels on the papers. He has been out since 2012, forgot how long he was out for. He has been putting ice on his knee for the last 2 and a half years. Now thats commitment fair play to him. Played well when he got the call.

Thought he played very well and made some important catches/clearances in the the full back line

Ropaire

HatchetMan7 wrote: »

Here's an alternative 15 we could see (Que the jokes about formation)
S O' Keeffe

S Fives---B Coughlan---N Connors
T De Burca

S Daniels--D Fives--P Mahoney
K Moran
J Barron

J Dillon---M Walsh---A Gleeson

---M Shanahan---S Bennett---

I like the look of this team. I'd prob swap Shane Fives to wing back for Daniels purely for his scoring threat, if it turns into a long range shootout we need anyone who can take a score on the ball! The balance of it looks nice though.