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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 3 Updated Mod Note Post 1

Hammer Archer

New thread continued from here.

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

This is consistently the most active thread don the GAA forum. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

- Personal abuse of anyone be they other posters, players, managers, referees, pundits etc. Any personal abuse will result in an infraction or a ban.

- Rumours about players'/managers'/anyone's personal lives. This should be self explanatory. Apart from being a dickish thing to do, it can lead to legal trouble for Boards.

- Trolling. Again, self explanatory. Trolls will be banned for a long time.

- Accusations of trolling. Report a post if you suspect it to be trolling. Do not call a troll out on thread as this will be considered back seat modding.

- Speculation into the identity of another poster. This is a site-bannable offence.

This list is not exhaustive. Either myself or another mod may add to this as we see fit. Just because a certain behaviour isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't be banned for it.
The general Boards.ie rule of Don't be a Dick always applies.

If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

So be civil to each other and happy posting.

***EDIT (20/11/2015): Quite frankly I'm getting a bit sick of the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters. From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.

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deiseach

Fair play to Damien Tiernan who has called out Eddie Brennan on Twitter. Brennan uses the hashtag #sportsmanship but then claims people are twisting his words by saying he is accusing Maurice of being unsporting. His put upon whinge is quite delicious.

carter10

Quote Blue Flame
On Maurice Rushe incident, maybe i missed something but from what i can gather there is a lot of assumption on the part of pundits and posters on here. Everyone assumes that Maurice was the instigator and aggressor of any verbals, but no one heard what was being said or heard what went on during the game. What we did see was first Rushe kicked at Maurice and then slapped him across the head, and it is all about poor Rushe and what Maurice might have said to provoke him. Back in 2002 Ken got absolutely slated for hitting Gerry Quinn of Clare and there was no pundit rushing to his defence, the opposite in fact it was basically a case of that kind of verbals goes on but should never result in the use of a hurley. Maurice has had his own share of troubles and has had more that his fair share of criticism. yesterday he turned in a complete performance and you can be damn sure he took more that his fair share of punishment, and there is no county out there that does not resort to verbals. This holier than thou attitude gets on my goat. Tom Dempsey on the radio when talking about Galway's performance once again harped back to "Waterford's fist pumping" as if we were the only team to ever do this - rubbish , there if nothing wrong with a bit of passion.

Absolutely spot on- Not a shread of proof that Maurice goaded Rushe but many 'pundits' are quick to assume it, including the smug smirk out the side of his mouth Brennan. Not a mention either about the headbutt he threw before that.
As for the fist pumping- Galway were at it at the end of the second game but Dempsey will ignore that. Its been a stick thats been used to beat us before....it proves one thing we're going well and that gets on some peoples goat - like Brennan and Dempsey- they'll ignore a slap of a hurley to the head because it suits their agenda

dcrosskid

Obviously not condoning Rushe's stroke but Maurice Shannahan was goading him for some time and obviously was looking for a reaction from him. It's a shame cause it was probably his best performance for Waterford seniors and will be more remembered for this now than anything else. He eventually got what he was trying to achieve after a couple of attempts at winding Rushe up but for me I would have given Maurice a second yellow as well.

Gleeson should have seen a second yellow also for his late tackle on Dotsy for all the difference it would have made.

Impressed once again by Barron midfield & the old reliable's Moran and Brick, consistency personified. SOK was very unlucky with goal, it would have been the save of the summer if he had got to it. Mahonney & De Burca were solid in defence & Bennett has serious potential up front. Not sure if ye have enough to beat Kilkenny yet but should be a good & close semi final.

deiseach

In fairness to Tom Dempsey, I heard the 'fist pumping' line and he made it clear afterwards that he didn't see anything wrong with it. Something along the lines of using any strategy to get fired up. Of course, the moral custodians of the game will carry on getting their knickers in a twist when Waterford, with our vulgar townie ways* get anywhere near September. Plus ça change . . .

*I realise not all our players are townies but they are all contaminated in the eyes of the Very Serious GAA People.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Waterford twitter users and posters here getting their knickers in a twist that someone may call out their Maurice on his unsporting behaviour, questioning how could anyone know what was said to Shanahan on the pitch, well the same can be said about what Maurice did or did not say to Rushe.

What can said with some certainty is that Shanahan did show unsporting behaviour. Perhaps a lot of the posters were at the match and did not see the footage shown on TV of Shanahan repeatedly refusing to release the ball to Rushe,repeatedly holding Rushes hurl stopping him from taking free/rejoining play and the sneering smiling in Rushes face. Each time it was shown Rushe was evidently getting more wound up, in fact Rushe was lucky not to get in trouble for strking with the hurl in an earlier incident.

Rushe's reaction cannot be condoned at all, but Shanahan's role in the lead up to the incident could certainly be regarded as unsporting

deiseach

dcrosskid wrote: »

Obviously not condoning Rushe's stroke but Maurice Shannahan was goading him for some time and obviously was looking for a reaction from him.

You are condoning Rushe's stroke. Obviously.

deiseach

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Waterford twitter users and posters here getting their knickers in a twist that someone may call out their Maurice on his unsporting behaviour, questioning how could anyone know what was said to Shanahan on the pitch, well the same can be said about what Maurice did or did not say to Rushe.

If people wish to accuse Maurice of being unsporting, fine. But they should have the courage of their convictions and admit that is what they are doing. If you are going to put Rushe's stroke into context by saying he was goaded then you are condoning the strike.

Giveitfong

PTH2009 wrote: »

roll on Sun 9th aug. This will be Tadgh De Burcas first ever game in Croke Park i think

As far as I am aware, five of the twenty Waterford players who played yesterday have not played in Croke Park before: Shane Fives, Tadhg de Búrca, Colin Dunford, Eddie Barrett and Maurice Shanahan. Colin Dunford was a sub on the minor team that played there in 2011 but didn't come on.

Speaking of Dunford, he does take up good positions and has an excellent first touch. After scoring two early points, I thought he might go on to have a great game, and could well have scored six points with the chances created. It is probably a confidence thing, and I would persevere with him against Kilkenny. People on here seem to be delighted that Jackie Tyrrell won't be available for Kilkenny. On the big Croke Park pitch, players like Dunford and Shane Bennett could really scorch Tyrrell.

While Philip Mahony did a lot of good covering work yesterday, he was in serious trouble in the air against Danny Sutcliffe who won an ocean of ball. This could be a problem against Kilkenny, who are very good in the air.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

deiseach wrote: »

If people wish to accuse Maurice of being unsporting, fine. But they should have the courage of their convictions and admit that is what they are doing. If you are going to put Rushe's stroke into context by saying he was goaded then you are condoning the strike.

We obviously have different understandings of the word condone. To be clear for you: I am not excusing, pardoning, over looking, forgiving or even approving of Rushe's behaviour.

You seem to be intent of shutting down any highlighting of Shanahan's behaviour by throwing accusations of condoning Rushe's strike around. As uncomfortable as it may be for you, Shanahan had a big role in the sending off of Rushe and his behaviour was unsporting

deiseach

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

We obviously have different understandings of the word condone.

Yes, we do.

Edit: regarding discussions of Maurice's behaviour, I'm working my way through the game on Sky+, not for the purposes of this subject but I'm keeping an eye out for it in passing. I was up to the 50th minute this morning and I saw one (1) instance of Maurice engaging in verbals and/or gesture towards an opponent. I'll get back to the subject when I've seen the whole game

dcrosskid

deiseach wrote: »

You are condoning Rushe's stroke. Obviously.

No, no I'm fairly sure I haven't.

deiseach

Giveitfong wrote: »

As far as I am aware, five of the twenty Waterford players who played yesterday have not played in Croke Park before: Shane Fives, Tadhg de Búrca, Colin Dunford, Eddie Barrett and Maurice Shanahan. Colin Dunford was a sub on the minor team that played there in 2011 but didn't come on.

Maurice came on a sub in 2009 and 2011 against Kilkenny. Scored two from play in 2011.

savannahkat

Giveitfong wrote: »

As far as I am aware, five of the twenty Waterford players who played yesterday have not played in Croke Park before: Shane Fives, Tadhg de Búrca, Colin Dunford, Eddie Barrett and Maurice Shanahan. Colin Dunford was a sub on the minor team that played there in 2011 but didn't come on.

Speaking of Dunford, he does take up good positions and has an excellent first touch. After scoring two early points, I thought he might go on to have a great game, and could well have scored six points with the chances created. It is probably a confidence thing, and I would persevere with him against Kilkenny. People on here seem to be delighted that Jackie Tyrrell won't be available for Kilkenny. On the big Croke Park pitch, players like Dunford and Shane Bennett could really scorch Tyrrell.

While Philip Mahony did a lot of good covering work yesterday, he was in serious trouble in the air against Danny Sutcliffe who won an ocean of ball. This could be a problem against Kilkenny, who are very good in the air.

One of these days you will realize that Croke Park is no bigger than Thurles or the Nowlan Park. Big wide spaces never bothered Jackie before and most certainly would not bother him against Waterford. Every pundit has predicted and every county has tried it the first were paid to say it, the latter could not do it, not in ten or more years of trying. Not Cork, Tipp Waterford Clare nor Galway could do it.

Alf Tupper

To be fair, it's not the first time Rushe has been sent off late in games for lashing out. It has happened him on at least two previous occasions.

He often lets his frustration get the better of him!

galwaylad14

I'd come straight out and call Shanahan unsporting. His team had the game won, he had no business going out holding on to Rushe's hurl, he was rubbing the victory in his face and nothing else. Hate to see it. Rushe was stupid to rise to it but I genuinely think Shanahan comes out of the incident looking worse to be honest. Should show a small bit more class in victory.

Waterford were good yesterday though and deserved the win. Thought Gleeson, Brick and Maurice himself were abolutley superb. Brick never wastes a ball, certainly not the greatest stick man we've ever seen on a hurling pitch but he's one of the cleverest hurlers I've ever seen in terms of using the ball. Thought Gleeson really arrived as a top class intercounty hurler yesterday and playing midfield suited him, gave him more freedom to get forward. He's the kind of guy who'd have fit right in with the Waterford teams of the mid 00's with all their style and off the cuff hurling.

And Maurice definitely is right up there with the top forwards in the game now. Had a great game yet again. Definite All star for him.

Yesterday was my first time to see Waterford in action in person this year as I didn't make it down there for the league quarter final and it's often hard to get a sense of the shape they are playing when watching it on telly but I have to say they weren't anywhere near as defensive as I thought they'd be from what everyone had been saying. Didn't use a sweeper for much of the game really, played 2 in the full forward line mostly, I had expected it to be just Maurice up front on his own for long periods.

Don't see ye beating Kilkenny to be honest, just don't think the firepower is there to score enough to beat them. Would like to see ye do it but hard to envisage.

But who knows, we might get a Galway and Waterford final yet, would be great to see and great for the game.

Mountainlad

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I'd come straight out and call Shanahan unsporting. His team had the game won, he had no business going out holding on to Rushe's hurl, he was rubbing the victory in his face and nothing else. Hate to see it. Rushe was stupid to rise to it but I genuinely think Shanahan comes out of the incident looking worse to be honest. Should show a small bit more class in victory.

Waterford were good yesterday though and deserved the win. Thought Gleeson, Brick and Maurice himself were abolutley superb. Brick never wastes a ball, certainly not the greatest stick man we've ever seen on a hurling pitch but he's one of the cleverest hurlers I've ever seen in terms of using the ball. Thought Gleeson really arrived as a top class intercounty hurler yesterday and playing midfield suited him, gave him more freedom to get forward. He's the kind of guy who'd have fit right in with the Waterford teams of the mid 00's with all their style and off the cuff hurling.

And Maurice definitely is right up there with the top forwards in the game now. Had a great game yet again. Definite All star for him.

Yesterday was my first time to see Waterford in action in person this year as I didn't make it down there for the league quarter final and it's often hard to get a sense of the shape they are playing when watching it on telly but I have to say they weren't anywhere near as defensive as I thought they'd be from what everyone had been saying. Didn't use a sweeper for much of the game really, played 2 in the full forward line mostly, I had expected it to be just Maurice up front on his own for long periods.

Don't see ye beating Kilkenny to be honest, just don't think the firepower is there to score enough to beat them. Would like to see ye do it but hard to envisage.

But who knows, we might get a Galway and Waterford final yet, would be great to see and great for the game.

Would you call joe Canning unsporting?

blueflame

I am not defending Maurice holding Rushe's hurley, but the game was over at that stage and if you want to talk about holding hurleys and goading or sledging as they like to call it now, there is not an inter-county team or probably club team in the country without guilty culprits. Rushe in my opinion should have gone for his first wild swing when he connected with Stephen Bennett, and if he is going to react like that to every time he is goaded he better get used to a lot of time on the line. Maybe Maurice didn't cover himself in glory but then again none of us knows what he had to put up with throughout the 70 minutes. One things is certain though, he did not strike two opposing players, and if you look at the footage of the altercation that followed i think you will see Rushe had a third jab with the hurley at Stephen Bennett i think it was. As i said in the earlier post i am fed up with double standards where Waterford lads are constantly painted as the villians of the peace while other counties are treate with impunity.

I am not saying that we will beat KK, i think that would be a massive achievement, but the amount of times yesterday that pundits on the radio said that Galway have proven that they could well put it up to KK in the final, and Anthony Cunningham was spot on saying he would meet Cody back in Croke Park in September, before being reminded KK were not yet there, was ridiculous.

One has to wonder what Waterford has to achieve before they will receive due recognition for the fact that they are good, very good hurlers.

galwaylad14

Mountainlad wrote: »

Would you call joe Canning unsporting?

Would you? Can't remember him ever carrying on like Shanahan did yesterday to be honest.

I know he actually got a yellow for "sledging" earlier in the year after scoring a goal but I think Brian Gavin just got that one wrong to be honest as did most people at the time if I recall rightly.

redlead

My personal view on sledging is that it is harmless enough provided that it is not personal abuse. It's certainly something that multiple players on all intercounty teams partake in. I don't know what was being said on Sunday but I suspect that it was harmless enough goading. I believe that Maurice himself was getting lots off it from some of the Dublin players when he was taking his frees and it was like water off a ducks back. I can see why some people would hate it too but any suggestion that it is worse than physically striking an opponent is just wrong. You cannot equate the two.

Toblerone1978

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Would you? Can't remember him ever carrying on like Shanahan did yesterday to be honest.

I know he actually got a yellow for "sledging" earlier in the year after scoring a goal but I think Brian Gavin just got that one wrong to be honest as did most people at the time if I recall rightly.

Daithi Regan was on Newstalk a while back and mentioned he was talking to Brian Gavin; the jist of it that Brian was satisfied that a yellow card was due at a minimum.

commonsense.

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I'd come straight out and call Shanahan unsporting. His team had the game won, he had no business going out holding on to Rushe's hurl, he was rubbing the victory in his face and nothing else. Hate to see it. Rushe was stupid to rise to it but I genuinely think Shanahan comes out of the incident looking worse to be honest. Should show a small bit more class in victory.

Ah lads would want to get a grip here. What Maurice engaged in as far as I could see was a bit of gamesmanship in an attempt to slow the game down. To say the game was won is rubbish. Yes unlikely that Dublin were going to get 2 goals but stranger things have happened (ref Offaly/Limerick AI final 1994). Regarding any verbals (sledging) I played hurling for a long number of years and was on the receiving end from numerous players. Once they didn't get personal (Donegal/Tyrone minor football game tybe of verbal abuse) I never had an issue with it. I gave a fair bit of it too (stuff along the lines "jaysus that was a bad miss there/f@#k it you made a bollix of that pass/ I skinned you for that one Jimmy etc etc) and everytime without exception we'd shake hands at the end of the game and move on. And any time I meet any of these guys these days we can talk about matches past without any difficulty - nobody bore a grudge at the time or subsequently. What I'm saying is that kind of stuff always was and always will be in the game. And players accept it as part of the game (but let me be clear here, the personal stuff excluded).
What you can't condone is a deliberate strike to the head with a hurley. End of.

deisedude

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Would you? Can't remember him ever carrying on like Shanahan did yesterday to be honest.

I know he actually got a yellow for "sledging" earlier in the year after scoring a goal but I think Brian Gavin just got that one wrong to be honest as did most people at the time if I recall rightly.

How is that any different? Both Shanahan and Canning were goading the opposition player.

Not condoning what either did

Mountainlad

galwaylad14 wrote: »

Would you? Can't remember him ever carrying on like Shanahan did yesterday to be honest.

I know he actually got a yellow for "sledging" earlier in the year after scoring a goal but I think Brian Gavin just got that one wrong to be honest as did most people at the time if I recall rightly.

That was what I was on about. Exact same thing to me to be honest.

Would I call Canning unsporting? Nope, never did. Though I would firmly believe that if anyone thinks Maurice is unsporting for yesterday than so is Canning. Game was over in that game too at that stage.

deiseach

Thinking less of someone who engages in sledging than the person who slaps them upside the head with a piece of wood. If only I had known this rule all those years ago when my older brothers were winding me up!

Stacksofwacks

redlead wrote: »

My personal view on sledging is that it is harmless enough provided that it is not personal abuse. It's certainly something that multiple players on all intercounty teams partake in. I don't know what was being said on Sunday but I suspect that it was harmless enough goading. I believe that Maurice himself was getting lots off it from some of the Dublin players when he was taking his frees and it was like water off a ducks back. I can see why some people would hate it too but any suggestion that it is worse than physically striking an opponent is just wrong. You cannot equate the two.

If sledging isn't personal abuse then what is it? You seriously think that players full of adrenalin won't cross the boundaries from harmless banter 'oh you could have done better there lad'' to ''go **** your mother and sister ya Dublin pikey'' bla bla

redlead

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

If sledging isn't personal abuse then what is it? You seriously think that players full of adrenalin won't cross the boundaries from harmless banter 'oh you could have done better there lad'' to ''go **** your mother and sister ya Dublin pikey'' bla bla

What are you on about? Believe it or not most intercounty hurlers are normal enough decent lads who don't personally abuse people. I don't know what you are trying to prove by making up some ridiculous insult and putting the words in someone elses mouth.

deiseach

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

You seriously think that players full of adrenalin won't cross the boundaries from harmless banter 'oh you could have done better there lad'' to ''go **** your mother and sister ya Dublin pikey'' bla bla

Yes.

Stacksofwacks

redlead wrote: »

What are you on about? Believe it or not most intercounty hurlers are normal enough decent lads who don't personally abuse people. I don't know what you are trying to prove by making up some ridiculous insult and putting the words in someone elses mouth.

ok so give me an example of something that would be ok for a normal decent lad to say in the field but dosen't constitute any kind of personal abuse whatsoever

deiseach

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

ok so give me an example of something that would be ok for a normal decent lad to say in the field but dosen't constitute any kind of personal abuse whatsoever

Here's a list commensense prepared earlier

Mountainlad

This is just getting bizarre now.