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Whether to attend a funeral

mct1

A recent friend (we've known her a few months from a class we attend), her elderly uncle has died after long illness. My husband is talking about attending the funeral but to be honest I'm wondering whether we should. In the past we've obviously attended funerals of immediate family members of our close friends, neighbours, etc but not of their various aunts and uncles that we'd never met - nor would they expect us to, I'm sure.

We never knew this uncle, nor any of his his immediate family who have flown in to be at the funeral. Myself I just feel one should draw the line somewhere. It's not as if she's particularly distressed, and my thought is that we should leave her to her family while they are over. I'm pretty sure she won't expect us to attend by the way.

I'm just interested in what people would do here. Neither of us was brought up here, so sometimes we're not always sure what's acceptable.

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sadie06

The elderly uncle of someone you have only known a few months? Absolutely no way!

You could spend your whole life at funerals if the obligational web stretched out as far as the extended family of virtual strangers.

I personally would not even send a card for the death of an elderly uncle of a close friend…unless they were raised by them or lived with them.

r93kaey5p2izun

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh that is a big black mark. Again, might be different here in Kerry where there is a big tradition of whole communities turning out for funerals. But if someone isn't there, it will not only be noted by the family, but by others. The amount of times I've heard a "and you know who I didn't see there"...

73Cat wrote: »

Totally agree with this. I was very pleasantly surprised by some who were at my Dad's funeral, and greatly appreciated their presence. Likewise I have never forgotten those who should have been there, but weren't ....

I understand that many people view it this way. Thing is though that in my experience such people think badly of those who don't attend to show support even if the non-attendance is with the intention of not being intrusive. But at the same time they expect everyone to consider their "good" intentions of showing respect/support at funerals even if the family actually do find their attendance intrusive.

People also need to realise that this varies by area. Fair enough attendance at funerals of these only vaguely connected is the normin some places, but it's certainly not the case everywhere. Doing what you think the family would appreciate is best, but likewise people should consider the intentions of those they feel have got it wrong in that regard.

Gael23

I wouldn't feel the need for a relation like that. If you do feel you should, rither drop into the wake or call to her home when things have settled down.

[Deleted User]

Corbin Scrawny Podium wrote: »

Thing is though that in my experience such people think badly of those who don't attend to show support even if the non-attendance is with the intention of not being intrusive. But at the same time they expect everyone to consider their "good" intentions of showing respect/support at funerals even if the family actually do find their attendance intrusive.

Um, here in Kerry removals are advertised on the local radio. They distinguish between what is intrusive and what they want everyone to attend by saying "family only" for some aspects, like the rosary.

When they advertise the funeral, and tell the county that it's on at a certain time, and the Gardai are there to control the traffic and so on, and you're asked to shake hands with each mourner, one would want to have a very very high opinion of their presence to deem it "intrusive". Who invites the public to their house or a funeral home for a very brief show of support only to turn around and deem that just too intrusive?

Alf Veedersane

From my own experience, if you weren't close it wouldn't be expected.

Just basing this on the fact that I only really remember who did turn up that I didn't expect, ie people fe work, rather than people who didn't.

Granted, if it was glaringly obvious I'm sure I'd have noticed.

r93kaey5p2izun

Deleted User wrote: »

Um, here in Kerry removals are advertised on the local radio. They distinguish between what is intrusive and what they want everyone to attend by saying "family only" for some aspects, like the rosary.

When they advertise the funeral, and tell the county that it's on at a certain time, and the Gardai are there to control the traffic and so on, and you're asked to shake hands with each mourner, one would want to have a very very high opinion of their presence to deem it "intrusive". Who invites the public to their house or a funeral home for a very brief show of support only to turn around and deem that just too intrusive?

Like I said, I understand it's the done thing in certain areas and that's fair enough if it suits mourners and the community there. I can only speak from my experience but funeral/removal details would be announced in the paper (certainly not radio) so acquaintances/former colleagues or neighbours of the deceased could attend as mourners themselves. But having dozens of my work colleagues or college associates attending, and feeling the need to make small talk with them and ensure they are looked after for food and drinks having travelled, when I was barely able to stay standing with grief was a nightmare and it felt intrusive. I feel that's just as valid an opinion as those holding grudges at those who don't attend funerals of those to whom they have only a tenuous connection.

[Deleted User]

Corbin Scrawny Podium wrote: »

Like I said, I understand it's the done thing in certain areas and that's fair enough if it suits mourners and the community there. I can only speak from my experience but funeral/removal details would be announced in the paper (certainly not radio) so acquaintances/former colleagues or neighbours of the deceased could attend as mourners themselves. But having dozens of my work colleagues or college associates attending, and feeling the need to make small talk with them and ensure they are looked after for food and drinks having travelled, when I was barely able to stay standing with grief was a nightmare and it felt intrusive. I feel that's just as valid an opinion as those holding grudges at those who don't attend funerals of those to whom they have only a tenuous connection.

There is little chat at removals here.

I know it's done differently in different places, but in a Kerry generally the removal is the night before, it's advertised on Kerry Radio (with the proviso that they can say family only), and all that is expected is a handshake to show you're there, no one expects the chief mourners to be remotely concerned about what they'll eat or drink and if they have any sense of decorum will wave away anything that might intrude on their grief. Here it is largely seen as a show of support, not an effort to inveigle a free meal - there is none after the removal anyway, though close friends may be stopped and told to meet up for a few drinks afterwards.

Redser87

OP it is a real pity that the time of the reposing doesn't suit - I was going to suggest going to that instead. Send a mass card all right, but with all you've said, I wouldn't say there is any need to go.

Cee-Jay-Cee

donegaLroad wrote: »

Send her a mass card.

You generally send Mass cards to the immediate family of the person that died, not their niece or nephew.

evolving_doors

Naaa don;t go, funerals are for mourners who knew the deceased to some extent.

If your not going to mourn then it's some wishy washy solidarity thing and that's about as useful as a like on facebook.

[Deleted User]

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Naaa don;t go, funerals are for mourners who knew the deceased to some extent.

Haven't seen that rule anywhere myself. You got a link?

Why is it not to show support for one of the chief mourners that you might know to some extent?

evolving_doors

Deleted User wrote: »

Haven't seen that rule anywhere myself. You got a link?

Why is it not to show support for one of the chief mourners that you might know to some extent?

Nope, only link is to my imagination. I just think that if you don;t know the person who died then you're only going to wind up being a spectator observing other people grieve. Just let them have their grief without the circus of people pretending that the deceased was a loss to them when in fact they don't have a clue who he or she was. That's just my opinion, when the time comes and someone belonging to me passes then I don't want folk who didn't know that relative to be going. Maybe I'm just cold and unappreciative, but I'm just not a strong fan of the 'show of support' back-pattery.

Also, is this 'college' buddy someone they actually socialise with? If you're just meeting them in college a few times a week or whatever then I'd just pass on my condolences when I see the person next time around.

[Deleted User]

Gebgbegb wrote: »

if you don;t know the person who died then you're only going to wind up being a spectator observing other people grieve. Just let them have their grief without the circus of people pretending that the deceased was a loss to them when in fact they don't have a clue who he or she was...

Who goes to a removal to watch people grieve? That would be...creepy.

You queue up, shake hands with the chief mourners, and leave. If you know them you may hang around. Either way, it's not the observe their grief.

And you don't pretend the deceased was a loss. Unless the deceased was known to you and...well...was a loss. I have often gone to funerals of people I don't know. But I'd know the son, daughter etc. And I'd go for them, not because the deceased was a loss to me.

Rubberlegs

Corbin Scrawny Podium wrote: »

I understand that many people view it this way. Thing is though that in my experience such people think badly of those who don't attend to show support even if the non-attendance is with the intention of not being intrusive. But at the same time they expect everyone to consider their "good" intentions of showing respect/support at funerals even if the family actually do find their attendance intrusive.

People also need to realise that this varies by area. Fair enough attendance at funerals of these only vaguely connected is the normin some places, but it's certainly not the case everywhere. Doing what you think the family would appreciate is best, but likewise people should consider the intentions of those they feel have got it wrong in that regard.

In my case the people that didn't come to the removal/burial were people that should have been there, my father in law, one of my brother in laws, and a good friend. Yet people who hadn't seen me in a few years came, people who didn't know my Dad. Friends of my partner came. They came to show support. I'm not trying to make it sound like a competition, but the people who I had never expected to see there , for me really highlighted the absence of those who didn't come. I was grateful for their attendance, it meant a lot, as they didn't have to take time out to do that.
I would always attend the removal of a friend's relative. If I didn't know them at all I wouldn't necessarily attend the funeral home to view the deceased. I'd wait outside the church for the coffin to arrive, and go up and shake hands with the family. It's a show of support , you go for the living left behind.

HIB

mct1 wrote: »

Quick question: if the removal is say 11 am (for mass at 11.30) what time should you get there for hand shaking? Last time we did that the coffin was about to leave. Just useful to know.

Also we can't make the "repose at funeral home" time, but if we could, would that be suitable too? Been to lots of funeral services and a couple of home wakes but not the other.

Thanks to all for your input - appreciate that.

Removals are usually nighttime affairs. So, e g., remival at 8PM, I'd go to the funeral home anytime from 7 on. No need to stay then for the prayers if u don't want. Just sympathise and leave. It might vary in different parts of the country though so, to be safe, give the undertaker a ring, and ask when would be the right time to go and sympathise.

kylith

It'd be different if it were one of her parents, but her uncle, no; especially since you don't really know her well.

evolving_doors

Deleted User wrote: »

Who goes to a removal to watch people grieve? That would be...creepy.

You queue up, shake hands with the chief mourners, and leave. If you know them you may hang around. Either way, it's not the observe their grief.

And you don't pretend the deceased was a loss. Unless the deceased was known to you and...well...was a loss. I have often gone to funerals of people I don't know. But I'd know the son, daughter etc. And I'd go for them, not because the deceased was a loss to me.

Just to clarify I was referring to the actual church ceremony rather than the removal. While I'd agree that the removal is more of the 'hand shake ceremony' I personally (not any rule written down) would prefer that if people didn't know the deceased then they needn't come. Also to add I know of other people who think the same way... there's been a few occasions when people close to colleagues have passed away have not mentioned it to anyone (until after the event or maybe in passing after) mainly because they want to keep it private and to grieve in privacy.

Now in saying the above last point, I appreciate that this 'college acquaintance' has mentioned the funeral prior to the event but the fact that the OP is wondering if they should go gives us a hint that she gets the feeling that the person isn't reaching out for 'shows of support'. Maybe the op can clarify a few things:

Has this other person reached out for sympathy or just mentioned it in passing.. ?
HAs the OP ever met this 'college acquaintance' outside of college or is it just a 'college acquaintance' and nothing more?

Also the fact that the OP is wondering why the husband feels the need to go just shows that the husband is doing it out of 'custom' ... i.e. we know the person therefore we should go 'to show support'.... to my mind there's the fine line between 'putting in an appearance' and 'showing support' especially at Irish funerals. There's also a saying that 'we always remember who didn't attend moreso than who did!!' (which is also true for weddings if the wedding forum is anything to go by).

So this is what I don't like about the whole 'showing support' thing. It seems to be the 'just in case' default option which is fine for some people so the maybe doing the shake hands thing at the removal to the church is ok.
Just like weddings I'd prefer if folk just got on with it and not worried about the social post-mortem of 'who did or more importantly didn't show up to our event'. Just remember the real reason your there.

In saying all that though I'm probably a hypocrit because I know there will be future occasions where I think it's best to leave the family at it (if I don't know the deceased), but those in my social/work circle might be saying I was odd if I didn't 'put in an appearance to show support'.

r93kaey5p2izun

73Cat wrote: »

I would always attend the removal of a friend's relative. If I didn't know them at all I wouldn't necessarily attend the funeral home to view the deceased. I'd wait outside the church for the coffin to arrive, and go up and shake hands with the family. It's a show of support ,you go for the living left behind.

Yes, as I said, I understand that's the sentiment. I'm just saying that the reality is that often, in my experience, those grieving don't want the support of people they hardly know or haven't seen in years. Yes I understand that's not always the case and many people expect all and sundry to turn out as a mark of respect or support, but others need to understand that not everyone else feels that way. I know lots of people who feel like you and I know lots of people who feel like me about this. There is a regional divide in many cases and definitely a cultural one.

To me funerals and removals are a time for people who knew the deceased to mourn and remember them. I think it's reasonable that immediate relatives of the mourners would attend for support even if they didn't know the deceased. But that's it.

freshpopcorn

Corbin Scrawny Podium wrote: »

I can only speak from my experience but funeral/removal details would be announced in the paper (certainly not radio)

Just out interest is this Dublin because I know people from a lot of counties and the death notices are read out on local radio a couple of times a day.

mct1

It's south east, not Dublin. Removal's in the morning directly before the service. Good idea to ring the funeral home and ask - thanks. We're not religious so not a mass card. I've already expressed our sympathy over the phone. Not decided yet, depends on himself really. He works, I don't, also I'm slightly more pally with her, so it would definitely look very odd if he went and I didn't. I'll explain my view but basically if he's intent on going then I'll go too. But in that case I'll push for just attending the removal.

Rubberlegs

Corbin Scrawny Podium wrote: »

Yes, as I said, I understand that's the sentiment. I'm just saying that the reality is that often, in my experience, those grieving don't want the support of people they hardly know or haven't seen in years. Yes I understand that's not always the case and many people expect all and sundry to turn out as a mark of respect or support, but others need to understand that not everyone else feels that way. I know lots of people who feel like you and I know lots of people who feel like me about this. There is a regional divide in many cases and definitely a cultural one.

To me funerals and removals are a time for people who knew the deceased to mourn and remember them. I think it's reasonable that immediate relatives of the mourners would attend for support even if they didn't know the deceased. But that's it.

Ah yes, it definitely must be a regional thing so. We have the death notices on the radio here, very handy as sometimes this is how you find out someone has passed away. You can request that the house remains private, or donations are made to an organisation of your choice as it's family flowers only. But I guess it's seen as an open invitation to the removal/burial. I assume if people would rather it be more private, they don't have the death announced. I've certainly never heard a death announcement requesting family only or only those that knew the deceased. It would be a rare enough request in the south -east.

dr strangelove

Is there a free bar at the wake? And finger food?

evolving_doors

Just to add... ive known people who've felt snubbed because a colleague never told them that they were at a funeral of a close relative and never told anyone (but it came out later). The murmering about 'thats odd he never told us about his sick/deceased relative' just goes to show why some folk dont want these type of people showing up at a funeral. A bit different to the OP's scenario but just to put some perspective on this group think unquestioning of 'showing support'. I suppose the devils in the detail.

Does the OP get the feeling that this college acquaintance wants them to attend? I dont think so.

HIB

mct1 wrote: »

It's south east, not Dublin. Removal's in the morning directly before the service. Good idea to ring the funeral home and ask - thanks. We're not religious so not a mass card. I've already expressed our sympathy over the phone. Not decided yet, depends on himself really. He works, I don't, also I'm slightly more pally with her, so it would definitely look very odd if he went and I didn't. I'll explain my view but basically if he's intent on going then I'll go too. But in that case I'll push for just attending the removal.

Changes things when removal is during the day. Don't think anyone would expect u to take a day off work.

Also, ringing to express sympathies is basically the same as shaking hands at a rosary/removal. I've rang people before when I couldn't attend rosary or removal, just to say I was sorry for their loss etc.

kylith

dr strangelove wrote: »

Is there a free bar at the wake? And finger food?

That's what I'd think if a college acquaintance insisted on showing up at a funeral for one of my peripheral relatives: that they were there for the free food at the afters.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

I would be surprised if any of my friends attended the funeral of one of my uncles, let alone a friend I hadn't known for very long.

[Deleted User]

I think there is a terminology mix up too. Where I'm from we call the removal "the funeral" (shaking hands with the mourners) and the following day we just say "the mass and burial" but I know that in other parts of the country they say the removal and only use the term funeral for the mass.

Certainly in my part of the country going to a funeral (i.e. removal) is seen as a thing to do for the sake of the people mourning. I'd say the majority of funerals I have gone to I would hardly know the person or maybe not know them at all but I'd know someone in the family or they would be a neighbor.

I might go to the mass if for some reason I couldn't attend the removal (so I could sympathise after it) but I'd never go to the refreshments unless it was someone I know very well that died or I was very close to the people who's relative died.

ScumLord

weisses wrote: »

Never understood the Irish fixation on attending funerals of people they barely knew

Free triangular samwiches.

They were a social outing for people before facebook. I think that's where the idea for facebook came from. Mark Zuckerberg was attending a funeral and while he was at the coffin paying his respects he thought of something funny to say but his friend was behind him in the cue, he imagined writing it on the dead guy's face so his friend would see it when he got to the coffin and that was the eureka moment that lead to facebook.

mct1

In the end husband didn't mention the funeral again so I said nothing. Maybe he had second thoughts or just forgot. Probably for the best. As I said, I already expressed sympathy for her loss. Its been interesting hearing different views - useful for the future, so thanks all.

[Deleted User]

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Just to add... ive known people who've felt snubbed because a colleague never told them that they were at a funeral of a close relative and never told anyone (but it came out later). The murmering about 'thats odd he never told us about his sick/deceased relative' just goes to show why some folk dont want these type of people showing up at a funeral. A bit different to the OP's scenario but just to put some perspective on this group think unquestioning of 'showing support'. I suppose the devils in the detail.

Just found out that the grandmother of one of my best friends is being buried in Cork today.

He didn't tell me cos he knew I'd travel up and just wanted to spare me the journey. He didn't even want to tell me the church when I was on to him last night, but RIP.ie is great for that.

Was at 3 removals Friday night. Father of neighbour, brother of acquaintance, elderly man I knew.