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Child Item

Non-homeless people just begging for the craic.

An Claidheamh

I've always known that many of the people begging in Dublin City centre are not homeless but even have more money than I do!

You have the scangers just coming up and asking for a euro,
the other ones who tourists think are there to help them work the Luas machines,
the scanger kids who go around asking for cigarettes.

Today, I was waiting for a tram, when a mid 30s woman with a kid holding her hand, probably looking around clothes shops, got my attention and then showed me an empty cup with a coin in it. After me she just half heartedly went to a couple of others, and then cool as you like walked into food shop. She wasn't even hardly an aggressive beggar at all. Not even trying.

I was amazed at how well dressed she was. I would have assumed she was a Brazilian or Spanish tourist were it not for the fact she wanted money.

I can't get over how easy it is for both scangers and gypsies, who are of equal or more wealth than the people they ask, to swan around shaking a cup at people.

Who gives them money these days?

Tell me this, would it be better to relieve these people of their cups of change if they harrass you in future.

And before the legal eagles claim I would be put in prison, if there were actually gardai around there would be no begging like this and if they illegally got their cup of change through (illegal) begging, then they cannot get the police to demand it back because it was ill gotten. Right?

Anyone have any experience of people literally just chancing their arm begging?

And should aggressive beggars (not homeless people!) have their cups taken away?

Has anyone ever done it like shopkeepers to stop begging outside their shops?

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cloud493

dubscottie wrote: »

Was there not someone from the Herald or TV3 did something on begging a few years back. Got over €200 in one day IIRC..

It is a massive problem though. Headed into town late on in the afternoon (Sunday) and was only there 30 mins to grab something and every 5 mins someone was looking for something. "change", Spare smoke" etc..

And if you say no god help you.. The abuse..

Always used to laugh at the fact the "big shoe" (big issue) sellers in Edinburgh had £100 pairs of runners and I could not afford them when I was working full time, earning decent money and still living at home.

Your man on tv3 did a program on romanian beggars in dublin I think.

KingBrian2

John_Rambo wrote: »

Lots of chancers begging in Dublin, there's also lots of mentally ill people, drug addicts, alcoholics. A lot of the drug users and alcoholics have dreadful mental health issues along with their abuse issues. Some would be second or third generation drug or heavy booze addicts along with a history of child abuse. For a lot of them it's the last resort, some of them are desperate, some of them are very down, some are belligerent and rude. There's a shocking amount of rural older men destroyed by the downturn that are just to far gone with booze and legal drugs to get work. A lot of them were labourers on sites.

I worked on Baggot st. for a while and there was a decent enough looking fella that was hanging around. When I say decent looking, he was as clean as he possibly could be, his clothes were respectable, but aged and falling apart. He was about 55 or so, always made eye contact and give a nervous hello. Turns out he was trying to work up the courage to ask me for money. When he did, he was shockingly embarrassed and very upset. I bought him food and he was incredibly appreciative. I had lunch with him beside the canal and he gave me a short history, but he was very shameful and embarrassed. He was from the midlands, broke up with the family and was living rough and was a chronic alcoholic. I guess he just wanted to get away from me after I gave him something. I'd slyly give him a fiver every now and then and he'd just give me a nod and a few wordless mouths of appreciation.

Last time I saw him he was necking a can of cider with tears streaming down his face, I was on my way home from a work night out. Never forgot that and always wondered where he ended up.

You should not enable him, he needs some treatment. A better idea would have ben to recommend that he check himself into a local clinic or join Alcohol Anonymous to meet other people in the same situation.

An Claidheamh

dubscottie wrote: »

And if you say no god help you.. The abuse..

This is why in reality it is intimidation for a lot if not most people.

The zombies leaning over you at Luas machines deserve a smack in particular.

dubscottie

An Claidheamh wrote: »

This is why in reality it is intimidation for a lot if not most people.

The zombies leaning over you at Luas machines deserve a smack in particular.

On the bus home I spotted a potential scam at a ATM from the bus.. But for another thread..

Nodster

shane9689 wrote: »

aaaand this is why i hate dublin and will never live there

I've news for you buddy, I've seen homeless in every City and every large town across Ireland

The Corinthian

People regularly tip for bad service too. Or give money to beggars they know are just on the grift. A fool and his money are easily parted at the end of the day.

An old friend on mine, upon my questioning his giving money to a junky-beggar, gave me another perspective, however. If enough give to such people, they'll have enough for their fix. If they can get enough for their fix through begging, they won't need to resort to mugging anyone. So he saw it as, and called it, a form of protection money.

LDN_Irish

mikemac1 wrote: »

Had an English guy approach me outside Connolly Station and tell me a long story of his life to date.

At the end asked for the money to buy a train ticket to Belfast. I don't know the price but I guess its around 25 euro

I'm not alone, he was mentioned in Dublin forum on boards!

That's mad, when I was in Belfast I bumped in to a homeless guy from Essex who told me he had to get out of Dublin after falling out with a "knacker" and he'd just caught the train up that day. Around 2 and a half/3 years ago.

Buzz Meeks

I remember standing in Dundalk a few years ago when the belfast train went by. Just caught my eye a distinctly english looking chap sitting in the train.

[Deleted User]

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You should not enable him, he needs some treatment. A better idea would have ben to recommend that he check himself into a local clinic or join Alcohol Anonymous to meet other people in the same situation.

Check himself into a local clinic? There are about 130 detox beds in all of Ireland, a quarter of which are solely for heroin users. I would estimate there to be around 80 beds available nationwide for people in that man's position, and even they may not all be operational due to cutbacks.

Also, as someone who has worked with homeless services in the past, I can assure you that it isn't as simple as going from the position of drinking cider in the gutter, to a residential detox bed on a farm down the country.

The sad reality is that the people who are least capable of pulling themselves out of addiction are expected to do all of the heavy lifting before a detox bed will even be given to them. In the case of homeless service users, a residential unit might insist they have to be coming off their addiction in a substance-free hostel before they can be considered, for example.

It isn't a case of walking into a clinic and saying "I need help". The help just isn't there, or else it's inaccessible to homeless people.

As for the AA, it's all very well attending an AA meeting at 7pm, then walking out to a life on the streets. Perhaps in your head you don't understand why such dismal prospect would make recovery next to impossible for homeless people. How lucky you and I are to know that no matter how bad things get in our lives, there is always a warm bed and a friend or a family member to help us. Homeless people are on their own in every way.

cbyrd

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote:

As for the AA, it's all very well attending an AA meeting at 7pm, then walking out to a life on the streets. Perhaps in your head you don't understand why such dismal prospect would make recovery next to impossible for homeless people. How lucky you and I are to know that no matter how bad things get in our lives, there is always a warm bed and a friend or a family member to help us. Homeless people are on their own in every way.

This was one of the reasons I liked the High Hopes Choir programme on Rte, gave a few homeless people something to believe in.

Reoil

lickme wrote: »

its even worse when there crying in the cold on a bridge with a blanket around them. Go get a job.

Go back to school...

Jesus Wept

I don't think constantly squaring up to every junkie is necessary, just makes a situation when typically they skulk off if ignored/discouraged with a 'no', or 'sorry' or 'I can't'.

Old Perry wrote: »

I think the immigrants coming from severe poverty in the east have a very different view of it than us westerners. they are shocked at how much money people here have , how flippant some people can be, and recognise very soon that some people dont value money the same way they might. A euro, 2euro or even 20 euro means very little to some people tbf. so whether they are well off or not they do it because they can, because begging doesnt hold the same stigma where they come from, because it would be silly in their minds to turn down what is essentially money for nothing.

The worst I've seen was a couple of guys at 3am, both holding a tiny puppy each. It was the middle of December, the dogs were shaking like leafs from the cold and elements. They'd approach people or people would approach them (they had puppies, it's 3am in the city center), then insist on money to pet the puppy.
It was so cynical.

Given the chance (without hassle), I'd have taken the dogs.

TheLastMohican

http://www.mypersonalfinancejourney.com/2013/10/income-beggars-street-performers.html

US figures, but could apply to London/Dublin

TheLastMohican

An Claidheamh wrote: »

This is why in reality it is intimidation for a lot if not most people.

The zombies leaning over you at Luas machines deserve smack in particular.

There. fyp

KingBrian2

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The sad reality is that the people who are least capable of pulling themselves out of addiction are expected to do all of the heavy lifting before a detox bed will even be given to them. In the case of homeless service users, a residential unit might insist they have to be coming off their addiction in a substance-free hostel before they can be considered, for example.

They should not being doing it alone, without a family or a friend it will be very difficult for them to get through. A loving relationship can improve their lives and may them give up an addiction.

Muckracker

This is why I never give money to anyone.

[Deleted User]

No matter what I always think of the indignity involved in begging on a regular basis, I don't like giving to junky beggar's but I have no hard and fast rule on it, however I would be more likely to buy them a coffer in winter. I get approached al lot in town. Money for a hostel, money for the bus etc.

My husband gives small amounts of money to a bagger near his work because he is a firm believer in ..their but for the grace of god go I.

An Claidheamh

mariaalice wrote: »

No matter what I always think of the indignity involved in begging on a regular basis, I don't like giving to junky beggar's but I have no hard and fast rule on it, however I would be more likely to buy them a coffer in winter. I get approached al lot in town. Money for a hostel, money for the bus etc.

My husband gives small amounts of money to a bagger near his work because he is a firm believer in ..their but for the grace of god go I.

I think or like to think that people if a beggar almost looks like an old fashioned one - scruffy beard, sleeping rough, etc, people genuinely don't wish them harm and bring them food or whatever.

But there are professional, both gypsy and Irish, who do actually do non aggressive begging, and then go home in the evening.

The bridge at Heuston station is one example.

cassid

My sister used to work in Bewleys on Grafton street about 20 years ago and they had 2 regular beggars who worked full days. The staff would exchange the coppers for notes, the older one got the staff to call a taxi for her to head home each day of begging. There was often a few incidents with new beggars trying to take her place as it was a gold mine.

I have been doing voluntary work for the last 5 years, there is a lot of hidden poverty in Ireland. I have recieved phone calls from public health nurses or social workers asking if we could help specific families. Was in one home with a new baby on oxygen and the presses were empty and there was 3 other children there. Family need a fridge to store medication and it broke and no one would help them not st vincent, welfare officer, thankfully we were able to wiggle a deal from a store. Families unable to travel to see their baby in Temple Street etc as they did not have the money to travel from cork etc.

An illness, disability, sick baby can change everything in your life very quickly.

John_Rambo

foggy_lad wrote: »

never give to anyone on the street because you don't know they are genuine or are they out to rob you?

foggy_lad wrote: »

I remember giving that guy that died a tenner on Abbey st one day a few months before he died, just because he looked so close to death and it was so cold. I would always try to help someone that looks so close to death

? Right.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You should not enable him, he needs some treatment. A better idea would have ben to recommend that he check himself into a local clinic or join Alcohol Anonymous to meet other people in the same situation.

Enable! Thanks, but the guy was desperate and embarrassed. I gave him food and cash, if I felt he was in the mood for life coaching I'd have tried it, but I'm a good judge of character.

shane9689 wrote: »

aaaand this is why i hate dublin and will never live there

Aaaaand you probably will end up eating those words. You most likely will live in Dublin if you become destitute and homeless.

[Deleted User]

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They should not being doing it alone, without a family or a friend it will be very difficult for them to get through. A loving relationship can improve their lives and may them give up an addiction.

Joseph Heller would be proud of this Catch-22. Yes, loving relationships are vital to recovery, as is a job, as is education, as is a home, and as is a non-addicted social network.

Trouble is, most homeless people can't access any of those resources until they are sufficiently well on the road to recovery.

It is beyond futile to try to "enable" a homeless person by reprimanding him with lifestyle recommendations as you pass him by. It must be dreadful enough to physically and mentally assault yourself, day in, day out, without some invidious stranger telling you to check yourself into a non-existent detox bed. I don't blame them for turning to drink.

Jesus Wept

TheLastMohican wrote: »

http://www.mypersonalfinancejourney.com/2013/10/income-beggars-street-performers.html

US figures, but could apply to London/Dublin

Am willing to take the beggar challenge and go out and see what I can make, for the benefit of boards... and mankind.

Sunnyisland

Not all junkies are homeless and not all homeless are junkies .
There are a number of things we can do to help the homeless. If you feel uncomfortable with giving money, Then why not buy them lunch or dinner.
You could always give them warmer clothes or buy them a cup of hot coffee on a cold day. Or if you want to take it futher
What about serving in a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter. If you work in an area where you see the same homeless person on a regular basis, why not stop and talk to them and listen to their story?

You might find there’s an actual person under those disheveled clothes.

I personally can relate to these homeless people, I had it all in marterialistic value, lost everything including house, I then came back to Ireland and after a few more years of suffering, with the help of true good friends and strong family I got back up on my feet and I am now thriving once again back in the same country that I was destitute in.when I talk to these people I try and give them hope.
__________________
life is based on a true story.

“Until lions have their historians - tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter.”

skittles8710

What really annoyed me when I worked in Dublin were the amount of 9-5 beggars who may as well been clocking in and out.
I worked in the city centre and did a lot of overtime so would be in early / leaving late. .The amount of chancers around who capitalised purely on the folks going to and from work in offices. You'd never see em at the weekend, early in the morning or as town got quiet in the evening.

KingBrian2

realies wrote: »

Not all junkies are homeless and not all homeless are junkies .
There are a number of things we can do to help the homeless. If you feel uncomfortable with giving money, Then why not buy them lunch or dinner.
You could always give them warmer clothes or buy them a cup of hot coffee on a cold day. Or if you want to take it futher
What about serving in a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter. If you work in an area where you see the same homeless person on a regular basis, why not stop and talk to them and listen to their story?

You might find there’s an actual person under those disheveled clothes.

I personally can relate to these homeless people, I had it all in marterialistic value, lost everything including house, I then came back to Ireland and after a few more years of suffering, with the help of true good friends and strong family I got back up on my feet and I am now thriving once again back in the same country that I was destitute in.when I talk to these people I try and give them hope.
__________________
life is based on a true story.

“Until lions have their historians - tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter.”

I feel the best thing any one person can do for homeless people is pay taxes. Giving them money will go directly to the off licenses or bars. People complain about bad health system that is because people are unwilling to pay into a working profession that has the power to take these people off the streets and look after them. This is the role Health bodies are for and they do stellar work. Disrespect what the Dr's and Nurses say and you will suffer. Smoke, booze and snort all you like but don't expect special treatment when you fall on tough times.

Jan Laco

kneemos wrote: »

Getting rich begging may be a bit of a myth.
Though during the boom here and in London during the eighties there was stories of beggers changing their clothes and hopping in their cars to drive home.True or not I don't know.

Not jump in a car but I've seen a well dressed man take a scruffy jumper out of a bag and put it on to beg. Near Stephens Green in Dublin.

Ciaran_B

mikemac1 wrote: »

Had an English guy approach me outside Connolly Station and tell me a long story of his life to date.

At the end asked for the money to buy a train ticket to Belfast. I don't know the price but I guess its around 25 euro

I'm not alone, he was mentioned in Dublin forum on boards!

Had a South African guy try give me the same nonsense in Rathmines a few weeks back. "I need 17 euro to get the bus to <some made up place>.I lost my wallet etc"

I didn't donate to his fund.

ressem

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They should not being doing it alone, without a family or a friend it will be very difficult for them to get through. A loving relationship can improve their lives and may them give up an addiction.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I feel the best thing any one person can do for homeless people is pay taxes. ...Disrespect what the Dr's and Nurses say and you will suffer. Smoke, booze and snort all you like but don't expect special treatment when you fall on tough times.

KingBrian2 wrote: »

You should not enable him, he needs some treatment. A better idea would have ben to recommend that he check himself into a local clinic or join Alcohol Anonymous to meet other people in the same situation.

Hmm, the alcohol and the drugs can just be the most obvious symptom.
A lot of homeless and people that spend their days on the street with a bottle are decent people.

In the case of some, when a mind spends 20 hours a day, after day, after week, after year hatefully tearing strips out itself, magnifying any frailties, to the point that the numbness of major depression is a relief, using substances or anything to distract, to shut it up appeals strongly.

People more experienced than me have stated that the lack of meaningful ties and communication with people is what drives [not all but] many to go overboard on substances that are at least controllable for others, to add the psychological addiction on top of the chemical addiction.

Expecting health professionals to provide that is unrealistic.

ihavenoname3

hytrogen wrote: »

Try giving a begger the change receipt from your bus journey & expect foul language & a flimsy fist coming your direction...
True story! I thought I was being charitable & didn't have the time to cash in a few shrapnel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rMpCud1IwQ

SMJSF

Its the Romanians which grind my gears!
And it ticks me off that we can't send them back because of the "oh my 10 kids are in Ireland" crap, and that the EU scheme was set up.
Scrap that awful EU idea, keep laws and countries to themselves and stricter boarder/gate rules and checks.
Where I'm living there is 3 different beggars a day in the same spot.

And the guy with the small brown dog and the shopping trolley in Dublin city ended up getting banned from my area because he started harassing people in their own cars in traffic at 5pm and blocking the doorways of public businesses to stop people going in or out to give him money, and followed me to the front door of my apartment building, and I ended up having an argument with him and had the call the gardai!!
And we have the Romanians pulling the rubbish from our bins and scattering it on the ground, steps and path. The other day a well known one was trying to get money from the landlord and I opened the door to put my rubbish out, and she scattered quickly, we dont get along after a few run-ins with her!