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Speed checks frequency increasing 10 fold - conspiracy?

veryangryman

Reading an interview with a national figure about the way the country's recovery is but a figment of the imagination. Some substance with points about jobless figures being massaged with Job-bridge and high suicide rates etc.

Anyway one point really hit me. The current amount of revenue generators nicknamed "flash for cash" on the roads. I'm noticing same myself up and down the country. Mainly on Motorways too.

I appreciate that there are limits to be obeyed etc, but lads isn't this such an easy target/revenue collector. And where was this frequency during the first 3 years of this government? Why the sudden crackdown?

I was wondering where the catch was when PAYE and USC rates went down this year. :mad:

Is there anyone who knows their local cops well enough to see what the latest instructions are? It appears that ALOT of their time is being spent on chasing cars. In the case of the Motorways, its pretty hypocritical where they use them too given recent soundings from AGS. The 2 spots on the M6 that i've seen cops with hairdryers have zero reported casualties since they opened. Something is up.

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eamonnq

Why don't they just put cameras on the bus lanes and fine everyone that uses them illegally ?

crc

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Passed one 3 times this week, on a 250m stretch of dual carriageway between traffic lights

So it wasn't a motorway. In which case several other classes of vulnerable road users could have been using the road at the same time (specifically cyclists, low-cc motorcyclists, farm vehicles - all of which are entitled to use non-Motorway roads); no excuse to exceed the posted speed limit. Public roads are not private playgrounds for petrol heads. Try Mondello.

anncoates

veryangryman wrote: »

Foreign Regs
Garda time used up

Thats 2 off the top of my head

If I only I could avoid paying USC and property tax by not driving like a cnut.

veryangryman

anncoates wrote: »

If I only I could avoid paying USC and property tax by not driving like a cnut.

Ah the holier than thou brigade. How are you today? Sorry for being such a lunatic on the Dual Carriageways. Turns out there's hundreds of thousands of us there. If i were you, id grab my bulletproof jacket and hide under a tree - its not safe out there for you.

anncoates

veryangryman wrote: »

Ah the holier than thou brigade. How are you today? .

Grand, cheers.

Having a spot of lunch between meetings and soaking up some rays.

You?

sbsquarepants

crc wrote: »

So it wasn't a motorway. In which case several other classes of vulnerable road users could have been using the road at the same time (specifically cyclists, low-cc motorcyclists, farm vehicles - all of which are entitled to use non-Motorway roads); no excuse to exceed the posted speed limit. Public roads are not private playgrounds for petrol heads. Try Mondello.

I'm certainly not a petrol head. I drive this stretch twice every day on my way to and from work - you'd be blessed to get through without having to stop at every set of lights, you'd never, ever get through 2 in a row. There is no dangerous speeding on this road per se - it's more or less impossible. In maybe 3 or 4 kms of dual carriageway there's about a dozen sets of traffic lights.
What you do get however are loads of perfectly safe drivers momentarily going faster than an extremely low speed limit as they travel in 2 or 3 hundred metre bursts - in other words fine fodder.
That's not an isolated case everyone is aware of dozens and dozens of these "traps"

TheDoc

At a lazy guess it would appear to me that there is more presence of the traffic corp on the roads operating checkpoints and speedchecks, and there is more of those speedvans operating.

However they operate in areas that are not known "incident spots" and instead I see them on routes and roads where there is a fluctuating speed limit (ie Road goes from 100 to 80 for like 200 yards then back to 100) and on busy roads with unusual speed limits.

There is one frequently at the intersection on the Malahide road, at the traffic lights by Kinsealy. If coming from Malahide as you come around the Castle the limit is 60kmph, and then it changes to 50kmph for a "residential "zone, as there is some houses sporadically on the sides of the road. It's a frequently known spot that everyone crawls down to snails pace, but no one is actually clear on the speed limit of that area, as there is no signposting. Its like an urban myth that developed.

The same van typically moves further up the road around near the Applegreen on your way to Coolock.

On my way home from work I used to take the offramp to join the N2 before going onto the M50. The road is 100kmph and then dips to 80kmph for 200 yards, before going back to 100kmph. Van is frequently at the point where the speed dips. It's a three lane duel carriageway, that then goes four lanes, I've never seen an incident at this section, but they are always there.

Obviously you would never get confirmation or concrete facts that would highlight any sort of dodgy behavior, but I get the distinct impression that speed vans and checkpoints are being setup with high emphasis on revenue generation, rather then accident prevention.

I know a few roads around Fingal that are notoriously dangerous, that never once have I seen a checkpoint or speedvan, or even Garda holding camera, but yet I've had a checkpoint exiting my housing estate, I've gone through a checkpoint mounted outside Woodies in Swords, and a rake of other stupid illogical places.

TheDoc

Ed_Stephens wrote: »

I don't know how much speed fines get in but if I needed more money easily I would jus raise motor tax again. Easy.

There is no public outrage over someone getting a ticket or a fine, and there is no political points to be lost from doing so either.

However there is tangible political effects from increasing motor tax. I wouldn't say they are in dire need of the money, it is just a handy little earner that no one really tracks, monitors or follows.

It's like the USC in some regards, a temporary measure brought in by the last government, is still there with the new one despite their claims it would be removed, because its a handy little earner. It's easier for a government to defend a tax once it is in place as opposed to introducing a brand new one.

TheDoc

5starpool wrote: »

I've noticed them a lot more recently too. Has it not been privatised though, so the governement don't receive most of the money?

A number of speedvans have been introduced by a private entity, but I believe its a tender, in that they pay a fee to the government in order to operate.

You will spot them mostly in areas of fluctuating speed limits and confusing sign posting areas, along with busy stretches of roads, since their only interested is revenue generation.

They have no obligation or contractual obligation to provide analysis that their placement is making the road safer, and as such are never present on well known dangerous roads or bends.

ectoraige

TheDoc wrote: »

A number of speedvans have been introduced by a private entity, but I believe its a tender, in that they pay a fee to the government in order to operate.

You will spot them mostly in areas of fluctuating speed limits and confusing sign posting areas, along with busy stretches of roads, since their only interested is revenue generation.

They have no obligation or contractual obligation to provide analysis that their placement is making the road safer, and as such are never present on well known dangerous roads or bends.

Wow, that's some claim. Who is this private entity, and do you have any proof, or is this just some random thought that popped into your head?

TheDoc

ectoraige wrote: »

Wow, that's some claim. Who is this private entity, and do you have any proof, or is this just some random thought that popped into your head?

Are you for real? It's been a headline issues since 2013.

GoSafe vans are present all around the country, and have been involved in a number of high profile cases regarding their operation and regulation and questions over their actual impact.

The Guardaí outsourced certain hours of speeding monitoring and put it out to tender (due to the Guarda recruitment freeze) and GoSafe won the contract. They have a five year contract and operate both their own vans along with actual Guardaí ones I believe.

Their contract is due to expire shortly, where I'd imagine another tender will be put out to the private sector.

Go Safe signed an €80m contract with An Garda Síochána in 2009 to operate a fleet of vans which work alongside the vans operated by gardaí themselves.

They came really to the fore in December last year when a Monaghen judge dismissed all cases regarding GoSafe vans, and indicated he would not prosecute any driver brought up on charges linking from a GoSafe Van. He said their purposefully placement in zones with quickly fluctuating speed limits brought the law into disrepute, and there was massive issues with the chain of evidence and how summonses were brought about.

Justice Minister confirmed a report was requested from the Guardaí on the GoSafe vans operation to highlight any issues, never actually heard if anything came out of that.

Guy:Incognito

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Not true at all. People have been done for 1kph over the limit and it wasn't a 10kph limit either.:pac:

Have they? Has anyone ever shown proof of that?
Considering the huge amount of **** posted everyday, I'm frankly amazed I havnt seen a photo of the fine on Facebook.

TheDoc

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Have they? Has anyone ever shown proof of that?

Yes.

Unlike the UK, where they have a 10% tolerance, there is no tolerance built into the law here, nor by the operations by Guardaí monitoring traffic speeds by handheld camera, by stationary camera, Guardaí operated vans or the GoSafe vans.

I'd imagine there is probably situations where a Guardaí operating a handheld or stationary camera will oversee a 1kmph limit, but the fixed cameras don't allow tolerances afaik. If so, it's not written down anywhere and must be an unwritten rule.

My mother received a fine and penalty points a few years ago, with the notice indicating she was doing 62kmph in a 60kmph zone near Finglas. My Da is usually good and filing stuff like that away, will ask him over the weekend if he still has it and I'll share a picture.

Guy:Incognito

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Passed one 3 times this week, on a 250m stretch of dual carriageway between traffic lights, fenced on both sides, no pedestrians (there's a pedestrian bridge) straight as an arrow - you'd basically have to try to crash.
These vans are all about getting the cash in and absolutely nothing to do with saving lives.

Must be why theres never any crashes on the M50.

TheDoc

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Must be why theres never any crashes on the M50.

In fairness M50 crashes (being a daily commuter and dealing with the chaos every second day) is down to poor driving and awareness in my view. You can see it yourself, people totally unaware of how to safely drive on the M50.

Moving lanes without checking mirrors and indicating when they are half way into the next lane, tailgating, impatience, you name it. The M50 is the perfect test case for bad driving, all they need is to plonk a roundabout on it and it would anarchy.

I've seen one speedvan in two years of doing the daily commute, one. I've noticed more Garda Corps SUV's and Cars going up and down it lately, but have literally seen first hand how they seem to not spot or catch clear incidents of speeding or wreckless driving.

Although unsure if it's a "urban myth" but heard from some people before, that Guardaí are reluctant to write you up for speeding unless they have clocked you on a camera, as its left open to interpretation. They would be acting on "suspicion of speeding" which is only actually verifiable by a speeding camera.

Can anyone debunk that myth? I remember going through town doing 60 and stopping at a red light. Guarda car pulled up beside me and rolled down the window and asked what I was playing at doing 60. Replied I was under the impression the speed limit was 60 as it was the last speed sign I had seen.

Called me a clown and where was I from that a residential area was 60kmph (wasn't residential) and when I said I'd been driving that route a year and never saw a 50kmph sign ever, he just told me to slow down and drove off. Kinda reinforced my thoughts that the myth was maybe true, as he only seemed certain I was over the limit when I admitted it. (And I've still never checked what the limit on that road is)

veryangryman

Before we go into a tangent and treat the M50 as an example of ANY Motorway in the country..

Im talking about M6, M8, stretches of Motorway where the traffic count is such that it isn't even a fraction as dangerous to go a little over the limit. If/when accidents are happening every other day on these roads then yeah ill say "well done gardai, a productive job done".

M50 of course needs to be policed as much if not more. 100,000 odd vehicles per day in some sections, narrower lanes than other motorways. Yes completely agree with rules on that.

View

The law on this is straight forward. You are required to drive within the speed limit (irrespective of how right or wrong you personally believe it to be on any given stretch of road).

If you choose not to, then you are - basically - volunteering to pay speeding fines.

That's your prerogative, of course, but don't expect those who choose to avoid speeding fines by observing the speed limits to be upset that you are stupid enough to volunteer to pay speeding fines that you could easily avoid.

veryangryman

View wrote: »

The law on this is straight forward. You are required to drive within the speed limit (irrespective of how right or wrong you personally believe it to be on any given stretch of road).

If you choose not to, then you are - basically - volunteering to pay speeding fines.

That's your prerogative, of course, but don't expect those who choose to avoid speeding fines by observing the speed limits to be upset that you are stupid enough to volunteer to pay speeding fines that you could easily avoid.

I would agree to this if there was a speed check on every single stretch of road and a history of regular speed checks. There isnt, so i dont.

And as for volunteering, my "volunteer" efforts are ignored if there is no gosafe van or hairdryer. Like in football where a player is offside when the ref says he is and under no other condition.

heybaby

The inconsistency with which speed traps are deployed nationwide has always bugged me, not least because drivers speed up once beyond them but also because it facilitates the "garda are just shooting fish in a barrel " argument.

As has previously been mentioned, don't speed and you won't get fined. However I believe garda holding speed guns are utterly useless as far as the changing the national pastime of speeding is concerned. It's also a total waste of vital manpower. At some point economies of scale and a tad bit of common sense will enable tamper proof GPS monitors to be installed in all cars which will track everything the driver does. This, I believe will be 1000 times more effective than the current wholly inadequate system. The beauty will be that there will be no way out of it.

Until technology saves drivers from themselves it'll be up to drivers to stick to common sense and slow down.

TheDoc

View wrote: »

The law on this is straight forward. You are required to drive within the speed limit (irrespective of how right or wrong you personally believe it to be on any given stretch of road).

If you choose not to, then you are - basically - volunteering to pay speeding fines.

That's your prerogative, of course, but don't expect those who choose to avoid speeding fines by observing the speed limits to be upset that you are stupid enough to volunteer to pay speeding fines that you could easily avoid.

I absolutely love this attitude.

I could take you out around some roads where I live and literally guarantee you would break the speed limit on about five of them of the top of my head. As in absolutely guarantee you would break it.

Through no intention of your own, through no malaise or poor driving on your part, but through the simple fact that there are fluctuating limits where I live not sign posted, and on one road, the governing speed limit is actually signposted, about 2000 yards previously, when you exit a dual carriageway.

So the Fingal council recently confirmed after residents raised queries about getting sign posting. If left to your own judgement you'd assume the limit was 80kmph, if you were cautious you might think it 60kmph, but you need to go back two stretches of road to find the signpost that governs it, where it states 50kmph.

Nothing is as simply black and white as you seem to like to think it is.

Not every instance of breaking a speed limit is a case of bad driving or intention on breaking the limit, thinking so would be silly.

TheDoc

heybaby wrote: »

The inconsistency with which speed traps are deployed nationwide has always bugged me, not least because drivers speed up once beyond them but also because it facilitates the "garda are just shooting fish in a barrel " argument.

As has previously been mentioned, don't speed and you won't get fined. However I believe garda holding speed guns are utterly useless as far as the changing the national pastime of speeding is concerned. It's also a total waste of vital manpower. At some point economies of scale and a tad bit of common sense will enable tamper proof GPS monitors to be installed in all cars which will track everything the driver does. This, I believe will be 1000 times more effective than the current wholly inadequate system. The beauty will be that there will be no way out of it.

Until technology saves drivers from themselves it'll be up to drivers to stick to common sense and slow down.

A number of insurers here are trialing GPS tags for cars on a beta/trial basis to see if it's something to introduce. I know Aviva are offering it as an incentive for policy holders. It records your speed limit on certain roads matching it against a DB where roads limits are stored. But it also monitors to ensure you dont hit speeds that is simply illegal everywhere etc.

Although it also tracks your journeys and distances, and in some ways is to catch out people who lie about their annual distance or car usage when signing up for a new policy.

Some European countries have them again on a trial basis, but there appears to be one GPS tag that was already "hacked" whereby you could feed it bogus data to relay back to the insurer.

Personally I'd say the next step is probably unmanned cameras that automatically clock and record details of speeders. Their is a rollout in Dublin around Luas lines, with these cameras recording cards that break red lights on luas tracks to automatically send a fine and penalty points notice.

Matter of time before they are mounted on underpasses, on motorways etc. Surprised they arn't here already, the M50 for example has those notification boards at X distance, so would imagine cameras will eventually be hung from them.

ardmacha

Well I've driven in every county in Ireland and I haven't got as a speeding ticket yet, so this isn't exactly a major issue.

deco nate

I had to go to wexford then on to Dungarvan yesterday, on the way to wexford (from bray) I saw 3 vans, 1 cop.
Then onto dungarvan I saw 3 vans. On my way back up the m9 when I passed Kilkenny on the opposite side I saw 2 cop cars hiding on the slip roads 3 junctions apart, this is very common on the m9.
Today I went to Headford and was 2 van's.
Maybe they just like getting out in the good weather?

Big Wex fan

I've seen an increased Garda presence on the Roads since they changed their fleet. I think with the hiring ban & the aging fleet, there was huge reduction in checkpoints the last few years. Thankfully I haven't seen an increase in checkpoints yet, no tax on the car!!! But expecting a fine in the post from Garda with a handheld camera hidden on a corner of the M11.

ectoraige

TheDoc wrote: »

Are you for real? It's been a headline issues since 2013.

GoSafe vans are present all around the country, and have been involved in a number of high profile cases regarding their operation and regulation and questions over their actual impact.

Oh, I'm well aware of GoSafe. However, you said:

TheDoc wrote: »

A number of speedvans have been introduced by a private entity, but I believe its a tender, in that they pay a fee to the government in order to operate.

GoSafe don't pay a fee to the government in order to operate, it's the exact opposite. The government pay GoSafe around €1.7m per month to operate the scheme. Also, it's been in the headlines since it was introduced in 2010, maybe you only noticed the headlines in 2013?

The total cost of the contract up to November 2014 was €80m and the department recovered €18.9m through speeding fines, which means the overall cost of the scheme to the state was about €61.1m.

A death through an RTA is estimated to cost the state about €1m (can't remember where that's cited). So if you reckon the scheme saves the lives of 62 people over four years then yes, it's making money for the state. If you think it has saved fewer than 62 people, then it's a net loss to the state's coffers.

Bongalongherb

Valetta wrote: »

Bit harsh.

It's not harsh at all. When you look at the importance of printed paper-money to survive, and then you look at the importance to a human life in the tangle of this paperism... The money will always rule over a strangers life in a greed capitalist environment, because you are not made of money

Ah sure, Let us (The ECB) digitally create A trillion Euro out of thin-air and pump it into already successful multinational corporations to make more money and lower the Euro currency as to detrimentally affect the working class and to put them into a smaller box of economic hardship.

It's not harsh, it's diabolical.

Cold War Kid

Bongalongherb wrote: »

They don't give a sh!t about life, it's just a scam to get as much money from you as possible. If it was ever about life, then you would think the government would do something of help in regards to the very high suicide rate in this country.

It's all about the money.

That's just speculation in fairness. I wonder why people are stating it as fact when all it is, is based on their opinion.

Now I do agree that some speed limits seem arbitrary and unnecessary, and the sudden drop from 100kmph to 50kmph - they can be on non pedestrian roads where it's actually hard to keep your speed down at 50.

But most of the time, it is easy to stick to the speed limit - and therefore avoid the fines (so why not do so? Instead of giving these apparent "revenue collectors" the satisfaction of adding to their coffers?) and it is really not unreasonable to put out the message that speeding can be dangerous and deserving of punishment.

Bongalongherb

Cold War Kid wrote: »

That's just speculation in fairness. I wonder why people are stating it as fact when all it is, is based on their opinion.

Now I do agree that some speed limits seem arbitrary and unnecessary, and the sudden drop from 100kmph to 50kmph - they can be on non pedestrian roads where it's actually hard to keep your speed down at 50.

But most of the time, it is easy to stick to the speed limit - and therefore avoid the fines (so why not do so? Instead of giving these apparent "revenue collectors" the satisfaction of adding to their coffers?) and it is really not unreasonable to put out the message that speeding can be dangerous and deserving of punishment.

In all fairness in this reality, it is simple common sense of truth whether folk want to admit it or not or hide behind the black curtain oblivious to its truth.

Cold War Kid

Bongalongherb wrote: »

In all fairness in this reality, it is simple common sense of truth whether folk want to admit it or not or hide behind the black curtain oblivious to its truth.

Um... nope, it's speculation. There's no not wanting to admit stuff or hiding behind a black curtain. You can usually avoid speeding fines; excessive speeding can kill, unless you genuinely believe neither of those are true?

Bongalongherb

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Um... nope, it's speculation. There's no not wanting to admit stuff or hiding behind a black curtain. You can usually avoid speeding fines; excessive speeding can kill, unless you genuinely believe neither of those are true?

Number 1.. They do hide behind a black curtain, it's a black curtain of tainted black on the outside of their van looking in. Their lasers as has been shown previously are mostly not aligned correctly and of which also give false warnings of speeding. 1/kph over this and you get fined, while they hide in behind bushes and shrubbery and also in unused lanes with no visibility to all vehicle drivers, as they are supposed to be visible at all times to other drivers.

There is absolutely no doubt that this is a revenue maker, and as such will continue to be so while they hide in the black curtain of darkness to fine you, and to bring in the Euro, when they are supposed to be visible at all times and made clearly visible to all drivers.

Hiding in bushes and unused lanes is not making their presence known to the driver, to quickly remind the speeding driver to slow down.

I'm on the roads and back-roads all the time and they are not visible, they are always hidden so you cannot see them. I don't speed so I'm ok, but I can see the fault they are making.

Make yourself visible so drivers that do speed will say sh!t, I better keep to the limit as these guys are on this particular road, instead of seeing nothing and weeks later being fined.