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Child Item

Sensitive issue

Guest123789

Ok. Very personal hence the guest account.

My wife and I happily married for seven years. Together ten. I love her and want to have a fulfilled sex life as she also seems to.

But we recently argued over the issue of body hair. Specifically hers. I've always liked trimmed, would prefer smooth but she never wanted that so that was cool. So long as it was short it wasn't a massive turn off for me. Giving oral is a massive turn on for me but it really turns me off if there's too much hair.

Anyway we discussed this and I made the point that I'd be more up for sex more often if she was trimmed short. She has been less careful I guess and I really find it a turn off.

Anyway she basically suggested that there was something a bit weird, almost suggesting a type of interest in children, if a guy liked less hair or even no hair. I'm genuinely upset at that insinuation because there is no way that's what's going on in my head. I just prefer the sensation etc.

I guess I'm looking for reassurance that I'm not weird and maybe even suggestions about how to move this forward.

Thanks and apologies if it's a bit personal.

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Eircom_Sucks

Guest123789 wrote: »

Ok. Very personal hence the guest account.

My wife and I happily married for seven years. Together ten. I love her and want to have a fulfilled sex life as she also seems to.

But we recently argued over the issue of body hair. Specifically hers. I've always liked trimmed, would prefer smooth but she never wanted that so that was cool. So long as it was short it wasn't a massive turn off for me. Giving oral is a massive turn on for me but it really turns me off if there's too much hair.

Anyway we discussed this and I made the point that I'd be more up for sex more often if she was trimmed short. She has been less careful I guess and I really find it a turn off.

Anyway she basically suggested that there was something a bit weird, almost suggesting a type of interest in children, if a guy liked less hair or even no hair. I'm genuinely upset at that insinuation because there is no way that's what's going on in my head. I just prefer the sensation etc.

I guess I'm looking for reassurance that I'm not weird and maybe even suggestions about how to move this forward.

Thanks and apologies if it's a bit personal.

i wont put my mouth there if a woman has hair there , no matter how often they shower there still a horrible smell , if its shaved or waxed then she'd have to bate me with a stick to stop ðŸ˜œ

do alk other stuff etc when she suggests giving her oral say " not a hope while it looks like that "

tell her the 80's called and want the hair do back

kylith

Guest123789 wrote: »

Ok. Very personal hence the guest account.

My wife and I happily married for seven years. Together ten. I love her and want to have a fulfilled sex life as she also seems to.

But we recently argued over the issue of body hair. Specifically hers. I've always liked trimmed, would prefer smooth but she never wanted that so that was cool. So long as it was short it wasn't a massive turn off for me. Giving oral is a massive turn on for me but it really turns me off if there's too much hair.

Anyway we discussed this and I made the point that I'd be more up for sex more often if she was trimmed short. She has been less careful I guess and I really find it a turn off.

Anyway she basically suggested that there was something a bit weird, almost suggesting a type of interest in children, if a guy liked less hair or even no hair. I'm genuinely upset at that insinuation because there is no way that's what's going on in my head. I just prefer the sensation etc.

I guess I'm looking for reassurance that I'm not weird and maybe even suggestions about how to move this forward.

Thanks and apologies if it's a bit personal.

Are you weird? Not in this day and age when porn has made this seem the norm (that's where the trend comes from; getting close-ups of the action in porn). However you need to look at this from your wife's point of view; it's a lot of hassle, it's difficult to reach, easy to accidentally cut yourself (which is painful), super-easy to get an infection (warm, moist area), itches, hairs ingrow (another source of infection) which makes you look diseased, and on top of that she probably doesn't like looking down and seeing the genitals of a 12 year old girl. And you have to admit, that's what shorn genitals are; reminiscent of pre-pubescence. Do you shave your bits*? You can't really expect her to do something you wouldn't do yourself.

* Though from personal experience sex with men with shaved bits is like sandpapering your lady bits.

zombieHanalei

It's not weird of you at all. But its not something you can really put pressure on someone over, a person (male or female) is entitled to groom themselves as they see fit.

Think of what's involved; waxing would be effective but quite possibly very painful and could lead to prolonged discomfort. Shaving leads to regrowth and stubble and itching and irritation, it's just not for some people.

Her comment was over the top, and was probably said in frustration. She may have been upset that you seemingly are unhappy with a part of her body and she could be really self conscious about it. I highly doubt she actually means what she insinuated.

It's tricky, but the way you feel is perfectly normal, but at the end of the day your feelings don't matter as she gets the casting vote on what happens her body.

Dial Hard

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

do alk other stuff etc when she suggests giving her oral say " not a hope while it looks like that "

tell her the 80's called and want the hair do back

Yes, absolutely do both of these, if you want to spend about a month sleeping in the spare room.

kylith wrote: »

she probably doesn't like looking down and seeing the genitals of a 12 year old girl. And you have to admit, that's what shorn genitals are; reminiscent of pre-pubescence. Do you shave your bits*? You can't really expect her to do something you wouldn't do yourself.

That's a bit unfair. He never once suggested he was asking her to go totally bald; all he wants is for her to trim a bit, which I don't think is remotely unreasonable. I find it just as much of a turn-off if a man hasn't trimmed down below either (and I mean trim, not shave).

OP, I'm not really sure where you go from here, given that you've already discussed it with her and it made no difference. If you don't already trim yourself, you could try couching it as a "Wouldn't it be fun if we both tried this?" kind of suggestion.

As a matter of interest, what does she do about her bikini line when you're going on holidays?

R.D. aka MR.D

I know this is going to be controversial but it's my own personal opinion on the matter.

I think she should consider your feelings on the matter. Does she shave her underarms and legs? I think most men would find it a turn off if their partner were running around with hairy legs. We've been conditioned to find shaved legs more attractive. Yes, not shaving is more natural but in the real world is that really what people think?

As far as pubic hair goes. I'll be honest with you, maybe I'm in the minority but there is a more noticeable smell when the hair is longer. Now, I've heard some men like this smell but I personally don't like it. I know it's not a bad smell, it's natural but even when I'm not in a relationship, I'll keep it trimmed and well groomed. Even during menstruation, it keeps things much cleaner and easier to manage. I don't ever look at myself in the mirror and say 'oh i look like a child'.

The OP has a preference. It's a preference many people have.
If my partner stopped brushing his teeth and his mouth smelled bad, then I wouldn't want to kiss him. How natural is toothpaste?

OP, i'd be more worried about the fact that your wife reacted childishly to a genuine concern about your sex life.

kylith

Dial Hard wrote: »

That's a bit unfair. He never once suggested he was asking her to go totally bald; all he wants is for her to trim a bit, which I don't think is remotely unreasonable.

He wants her to trim very short or to shave completely, which she doesn't want to do. She feels that it looks like a child, which is a valid way to feel. Maybe she's pissed off that she constantly has to shave it short, not for the occasional treat for her OH, but because he doesn't want to have sex with her if she doesn't.

He wants it shorn, and that's ok. She doesn't want to, and that's ok too. They need to sit down and have a discussion about how to precede from here because what they can't do is continue in a situation where he withholds sex unless she does something she is uncomfortable with/doesn't want to do.

LegacyUser

Going anonymous for this as I feel like this will get me some flack, but I agree completely with the OP. Unkempt pubic hair is one of my biggest turn offs. It's horrible to look at, makes giving oral sex to a woman awkward (nobody likes a hair caught in your throat!), and, as others have mentioned, can smell really weird. I've also noticed a correlation between how a person keeps their pubes and their overall hygiene levels down there.

Do you shave or trim yours? I do feel it unfair to suggest shaving/trimming hers if you're not willing to do the same.

kayos

kylith wrote: »

continue in a situation where he withholds sex unless she does something she is uncomfortable with/doesn't want to do.

But on the flip side he feels uncomfortable/doesnt want to be preforming oral when the garden has been let run wild.

But you are right they need to sit down and talk about this like adults. Saying the OP has an interest in children is not a adult conversation when discussing body grooming.

tailgunner

You're not a bit weird for having a preference (a fairly common one at that) and I think your wife's reaction was very unfair.

What strikes me though is that you've been together for 10 years, and presumably you've both been compromising to some extent. How has it suddenly become an issue now?

LegacyUser

tailgunner wrote: »

What strikes me though is that you've been together for 10 years, and presumably you've both been compromising to some extent. How has it suddenly become an issue now?

+ 1 You say you prefer it smooth (I assume you mean waxed off) but were ok with trimmed neat which is what she I assume had. So you've been together 10 years and this has become an issue now why? Has she started letting it grow wild? You can't force her to wax if she doesn't want but if she had been keeping it one way and has recently started to change that then you should be able to talk about like adults. If you've always wanted it smooth and have waited 10 years to push the issue then there's bigger issues in your relationship you need to be worrying about.

Emme

OP, you're not in the least weird for having preferences. I am single and like to be trimmed short for the sake of hygiene even though I might spend the rest of my days living as a nun.

She doesn't have to get everything off. Waxing salons will give her the option of having a small landing strip while leaving everywhere else smooth. There are waxing options available for men too - would you consider this? It's only fair that you are willing to submit yourself to the same procedure you expect your wife to undergo.

OneOfThem

Have you a beard OP? If not I presume it's in part because your wife prefers you clean shaven? The look, the feel etc? Does she like you to shave because children have hairless faces and so she's secretly a pedophile?

Perhaps as an analogy this could work to explain it to her?

No of course you're not weird. It's a pretty common preference, just like the preference women often have for clean-shaven men. Most men just find it looks, feels, and yes, sorry, definitely smells better.

Augme

Trimmed or not trimmed I think the fact your wife basically insinuated you are a pedo is pretty disgusting behaviour and something I would really take a big issue with.

IlmoNT4

I think you should probably lay off watching porn and try and accept your partners body for the way it is. Its all brain washing and control if you ask me. Women are basically shaving their entire bodies to complete with whats been fed into the male brain by porn. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture... its become socially unacceptable to have under arm pit hair, or hair on our legs..Its become socially unacceptable to have a natural body.

Its great that you can have conversations with your wife about it, but its her body and I think you should try and embrace her body in its natural state. And if you cant well.... too bad.

Although I think your wife was probably a little over the top, but think about how you might feel if someone was pestering you to trim hair or change something that your body does naturally.

Anyways how come this is an issue now? You've been together 10 years? surely theres more to your sexual desire for her than how her public hair is ?

OneOfThem

loulou2009 wrote: »

Although I think your wife was probably a little over the top, but think about how you might feel if someone was pestering you to trim hair or change something that your body does naturally.

Like shave his face? Comb his hair? Brush his teeth? Shower?

I'm sure he'd be distraught.

Nah, here OP. Don't be minding this "it's natural, you should love it cause you love her" stuff. More holes than Swiss cheese, that argument.

[Deleted User]

The fact that she insinuated that you were a paedophile is completely and utterly over the top. And is totally not ok. What I would be curious to know is whether any double standards exist - OP, has she ever asked you to shave or anything else with your body that wouldn't be natural, which is essentially the common argument used here?

If the answer is yes and he is expected to do it, then of course she should at least do what he would request. It's called being equal and fair.

beks101

Is there any particular reason why she has been "less careful" about keeping herself trimmed of late? Is this a new thing for her and she's just suddenly not arsed, whereas before she made a bit of effort? Might it perhaps be a defiant thing on her part?

I'm all for "her body, her business" but I think we all have turn-ons and turn-offs in our sex lives and when you love someone, unless they're asking you to do something totally unreasonable and out-of-your-comfort-zone, you kind of just go with it. Because you love turning them on and you want a happy, healthy sex life.

I'd be more curious as to why it's suddenly become an issue for your OH to suddenly stop maintaining her usual level of tidiness down there, if it hasn't previously bothered her (if that is in fact the case.)

Tasden

loulou2009 wrote: »

I think you should probably lay off watching porn and try and accept your partners body for the way it is. Its all brain washing and control if you ask me. Women are basically shaving their entire bodies to complete with whats been fed into the male brain by porn. Take a step back and look at the bigger picture... its become socially unacceptable to have under arm pit hair, or hair on our legs..Its become socially unacceptable to have a natural body.

That's a little insulting to women. I always wax regardless of whether I'm being intimate with someone or not. I'm not competing with people in porn or trying to live up to some kind of ideal men have from porn. It's because it feels clean. For myself. It's the same as having a shower/wearing deodorant/trimming my nails. I'd keep down there waxed and my armpits waxed so that I feel clean.

LegacyUser

OP, I'd agree with other posters- for this to become an issue after 10years together- either something is happening with your wife herself (either physically eg: ingrown hairs, yeast infections ect OR emotionally eg: depression, lack of libido),
and or something is happening in your relationship (& she is making a stand of sorts).
You need to have that conversation with her.
As to the rights and wrongs of female grooming, each to their own. You have a bigger problem at hand here than pubic hair.

kylith

Tasden wrote: »

That's a little insulting to women. I always wax regardless of whether I'm being intimate with someone or not. I'm not competing with people in porn or trying to live up to some kind of ideal men have from porn. It's because it feels clean. For myself. It's the same as having a shower/wearing deodorant/trimming my nails. I'd keep down there waxed and my armpits waxed so that I feel clean.

I absolutely understand what you are saying, but I just wanted to remind people that it is in no way unclean, dirty, or unhygenic to prefer not to shave. Some people, like you Tasden, like to do it, other people don't. As long as people wash properly then neither shaving nor not shaving is cleaner than the other. If it were we would have gone extinct from terminal crotch-rot over the countless millennia that we'd never even thought to remove body hair.

Tasden

kylith wrote: »

I absolutely understand what you are saying, but I just wanted to remind people that it is in no way unclean, dirty, or unhygenic to prefer not to shave. Some people, like you Tasden, like to do it, other people don't. As long as people wash properly then neither shaving nor not shaving is cleaner than the other. If it were we would have gone extinct from terminal crotch-rot over the countless millennia that we'd never even thought to remove body hair.

For sure. And that's why I was careful to say it feels clean. For myself. Not that it's "more hygienic" or whatever because its not, it just feels cleaner/fresher, whatever way you wanna phrase it, to me.

pookie82

Speaking as someone who has in the last year gone down the absolutely-no-hair route, I love it, but it's not for everyone. And for those who are saying it's more hygienic, it's not. Pubic hair is there for a protective reason, it covers VERY delicate skin and can act as a barrier to infection and irritation. I don't think that better hygiene should be flouted as a reason to get rid.

It's all down to personal preference. Years before I went totally bare I trimmed it to an absolute minimum anyways, BUT there's a lot of maintenance in keeping it like that (I'm cursed with thick hair that grows fast).

It's pretty costly to keep it completely tidy all of the time! I use laser now (which is hellishly expensive and very painful, despite what people say) but before that, a wax costing anything up to €55 a time would keep it perfect for 2 weeks but I'd spend the next 6 growing it back for another. It's not a practical solution to being hair free on a regular basis for me.

Shaving the area, depending on your hair and skin type, can lead to pimples, break outs, shaving rash, ingrown hairs and incredibly itchy stubble in your underwear for weeks afterwards. It's not pleasant, and believe me, if you get ingrown hairs in that area it'll be so painful and ugly you'll be wishing for the hair back! Maybe she doesn't feel like that's a fair trade off to give you sexual pleasure for a few hours a week?

Whatever anyone says, I do think porn has a massive impact on how men expect women to look nowadays and while you're perfectly entitled to express that preference, you should never shame or force someone into conforming to it. We live in a society where women are "forced" by what they see all around them and what partners expect to completely rid themselves of any underarm or leg hair, and I can see it becoming a trend now too for men to want pubic hair to go the same route.

The most you can ask of her is to keep the area "tidier" without the use of invasive waxes/shaving and laser and if you're going to demand that, don't forget your own area should receive the same prolonged and regular attention.

It does irk me when men demand a certain look or maintenance when they have no idea how hard it is for some girls with thick, coarse hair to expensively and painfully maintain their standards. I have friends who run a razor over their legs once a week and manage to have flawless skin, whereas I can't maintain my hair at all with a razor without looking like I've taken a layer of skin with it because of my hair and skin type (hence the laser route). That leaves me with waxing and laser as my options, both of which are painful and expensive.

Are you sure you've broached the topic with enough sensitivity? It'd be easy to make your wife feel inadequate by telling her you prefer a look you've never seen on her ...

To clarify, OP, I don't think your preference is "weird", but I did want to point out some considerations for asking a woman to keep it a certain way all the time and the potential for her to feel you're unfairly wanting her to conform to the latest pubic "trend" at great pain and expense.

giggle84

pookie82 wrote: »

Pubic hair is there for a protective reason, it covers VERY delicate skin and can act as a barrier to infection and irritation.

It's pretty costly to keep it completely tidy all of the time!

..believe me, if you get ingrown hairs in that area it'll be so painful and ugly you'll be wishing for the hair back!

Whatever anyone says, I do think porn has a massive impact on how men expect women to look nowadays and while you're perfectly entitled to express that preference, you should never shame or force someone into conforming to it. We live in a society where women are "forced" by what they see all around them and what partners expect to completely rid themselves of any underarm or leg hair, and I can see it becoming a trend now too for men to want pubic hair to go the same route.

The most you can ask of her is to keep the area "tidier" without the use of invasive waxes/shaving and laser and if you're going to demand that, don't forget your own area should receive the same prolonged and regular attention.

It does irk me when men demand a certain look or maintenance when they have no idea how hard it is for some girls with thick, coarse hair to expensively and painfully maintain their standards.

Are you sure you've broached the topic with enough sensitivity? It'd be easy to make your wife feel inadequate by telling her you prefer a look you've never seen on her ...

This. All of this. Great post pookie82. Especially the last point about telling your wife you prefer a look you've seen on someone else, probably either an ex or in porn. Your wife doesn't want to be compared to either and told she's lacking.

If hygiene is the issue, that's a major but slightly different issue. There's no excuse for poor hygiene regardless of how much pubic hair anyone has, male or female. And yes I'd imagine if it's long and thick then performing oral sex may not be as enjoyable and you can certainly ask her to keep it tidier. But asking her to go bare or Brazilian or whatever is different. Sure you can suggest it and if she wants to do it then great, but if not, which is clearly the case, then you need to back off.

EDIT: Just to add.. I do think her reaction and inference that you're sexually attracted to children was very over the top and unfair. I think it was probably just a knee jerk reaction because she felt inferior and insulted, and I'm sure she absolutely did not mean to suggest you like children like that.

pookie82

giggle84 wrote: »

If hygiene is the issue, that's a major but slightly different issue. There's no excuse for poor hygiene regardless of how much pubic hair anyone has, male or female. And yes I'd imagine if it's long and thick then performing oral sex may not be as enjoyable and you can certainly ask her to keep it tidier.

This is a good point that I meant to make ...

If you feel it "smells" unpleasant down there when there's more hair, maybe she's not showering enough?

The smell shouldn't be made much worse OR better depending on the presence of hair. My armpits have been hair free for about 18 years now and if I skip a shower they'll still whiff!!

TheBeardedLady

pookie82 wrote: »

This is a good point that I meant to make ...

If you feel it "smells" unpleasant down there when there's more hair, maybe she's not showering enough?

The smell shouldn't be made much worse OR better depending on the presence of hair. My armpits have been hair free for about 18 years now and if I skip a shower they'll still whiff!!

This hygiene line is a new thing I never heard before going bald became popular and is simply a way to justify a preference that doesn't need to be justified. If you shower regularly, wear clean underwear daily, clean yourself properly after going to the bathroom and don't have any kind of yeast infection (which often go untreated), then it shouldn't smell.

Tasden

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

This hygiene line is a new thing I never heard before going bald became popular and is simply a way to justify a preference that doesn't need to be justified. If you shower regularly, wear clean underwear daily, clean yourself properly after going to the bathroom and don't have any kind of yeast infection (which often go untreated), then it shouldn't smell.

Without going into too much detail, I'm assuming if a woman has a lot of hair and isn't very thorough in her cleaning then the hair is going to make things smell more than if there was nothing for odour to "hang to" if that makes sense. Also I'm guessing its easier for some to clean a smooth/neat/semi smooth surface! Maybe that's what people mean when they say it rather than it actually being more hygienic in the literal sense.

kylith

Tasden wrote: »

Without going into too much detail, I'm assuming if a woman has a lot of hair and isn't very thorough in her cleaning then the hair is going to make things smell more than if there was nothing for odour to "hang to" if that makes sense. Also I'm guessing its easier for some to clean a smooth/neat/semi smooth surface! Maybe that's what people mean when they say it rather than it actually being more hygienic in the literal sense.

Ironically enough, holding onto that smell is one of the things pubic hair evolved for. The smell is from secretions and is full of pheremones. The secretions are due to arousal. The smell people apparently don't like is the smell of a woman wanting to have sex!

Except, obviously, during menstruation.

OneOfThem

Tasden wrote: »

Without going into too much detail, I'm assuming if a woman has a lot of hair and isn't very thorough in her cleaning then the hair is going to make things smell more than if there was nothing for odour to "hang to" if that makes sense. Also I'm guessing its easier for some to clean a smooth/neat/semi smooth surface! Maybe that's what people mean when they say it rather than it actually being more hygienic in the literal sense.

Well that'd be the thing all right. Straight out of the shower, clean pair of underwear, it wouldn't matter if it looked like Jimi Hendrix head down there, it'd be fresh as a daisy.

At the end of a night out though for example... Yes it can make a big difference, odour wise. (and not just pheromones, if you urinate, there will be splashback, hair soaks up liquid, and odours, there can be a faint wiff of pee sometimes - then sweat/discharge /etc all can leave an odour clinging to the hair. It can be unpleasant.)

Tasden

kylith wrote: »

Ironically enough, holding onto that smell is one of the things pubic hair evolved for. The smell is from secretions and is full of pheremones. The secretions are due to arousal. The smell people apparently don't like is the smell of a woman wanting to have sex!

Except, obviously, during menstruation.

Ah I do understand that but at the same time when its mixed with sweat and other unpleasant smells that haven't been cleaned away properly it's not all that sexy!

PinkLemonade

OneOfThem wrote: »

Well that'd be the thing all right. Straight out of the shower, clean pair of underwear, it wouldn't matter if it looked like Jimi Hendrix head down there, it'd be fresh as a daisy.

At the end of a night out though for example... Yes it can make a big difference, odour wise.

There's a big difference though between bald, short and neat, and fro down there. I don't like the idea of shaming women into going bald in the name of hygiene, not that I'm saying you are, I'm just pointing out theres a perfectly hygienic middle ground.