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S05 Ep10 - "Mother's Mercy" - HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS

Al Capwned

**** THE LOT OF IT.

Then **** it some more.

And **** the watch.
And **** Stannis.
And **** GRRM.
And **** "a man".
And **** the writers.

Then **** it another bit.

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DeadHand

wp_rathead wrote: »

I like Kevin Lannister - hoping to see more of him next season
Kinda like Tywin Lite

Me too!

Obviously not as intelligent and ruthless as Tywin was (no one but Tyrion is) but seems to have the same strong vein of common sense and immunity to Cersei's nonsense.

On that point, of Tywin's three children Tyrion was the most similar in terms of personality and mental capability to the father. Jaime is just an articulate soldier. Cersei is a spoiled lunatic. Tyrion, like his father before him, is a proven administrator, diplomat, politician and general.

I think that is where a lot of the Tywin on Tyrion hate stemmed from. On top of the physical "deformity" and death of his wife there were these similarities. No loathing like self-loathing. Tywin also may have recognised in Tyrion a potential future rival.

Looking back, Tywin's eagerness to sacrifice the Imp made little sense. He was clearly of use to House Lanister and still Tywin's only male heir unburdened by a vow of chastity. Maybe his claims made on the jacks that he intended to save Tyrion all along were true. His execution would certainly seem a drastic measure for a man so obsessed with family and legacy to take simply to placate Cersei and the Tyrells.

weldoninhio

DeadHand wrote: »

Me too!

Obviously not as intelligent and ruthless as Tywin was (no one but Tyrion is) but seems to have the same strong vein of common sense and immunity to Cersei's nonsense.

On that point, of Tywin's three children Tyrion was the most similar in terms of personality and mental capability to the father. Jaime is just an articulate soldier. Cersei is a spoiled lunatic. Tyrion, like his father before him, is a proven administrator, diplomat, politician and general.

I think that is where a lot of the Tywin on Tyrion hate stemmed from. On top of the physical "deformity" and death of his wife there were these similarities. No loathing like self-loathing. Tywin also may have recognised in Tyrion a potential future rival.

Looking back, Tywin's eagerness to sacrifice the Imp made little sense. He was clearly of use to House Lanister and still Tywin's only male heir unburdened by a vow of chastity. Maybe his claims made on the jacks that he intended to save Tyrion all along were true. His execution would certainly seem a drastic measure for a man so obsessed with family and legacy to take simply to placate Cersei and the Tyrells.

I'm not convinced Tyrion is a lannister

Troyaferd

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm not convinced Tyrion is a lannister

would explain much, Tywin normally should see the potentional of Tyrion (unlike Jamie and Cersei)

Final Episode was pretty poor.

PressRun

The more I think about it, the more disappointed I feel with the whole story at Winterfell with Sansa. That really amounted to nothing in the end. I thought that situation was going to be a chance for her to become something other than a damsel in distress, that she'd use that corkscrew to kill Ramsey or Theon, or that she's use her wit to outsmart the Boltons or something. Instead, she uses what could have been a weapon to open and door and then just has Theon save her. There was a big opportunity here for some character development that was just totally missed.

Also, who is the "young boy" or whatever that Littlefinger wanted to give to Olenna as a gift? It couldn't have been Lancel, right? He was already confessing everything to the Sparrows by the time Littlefinger arrived back at King's Landing.

Troyaferd

PressRun wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more disappointed I feel with the whole story at Winterfell with Sansa. That really amounted to nothing in the end. I thought that situation was going to be a chance for her to become something other than a damsel in distress, that she'd use that corkscrew to kill Ramsey or Theon, or that she's use her wit to outsmart the Boltons or something. Instead, she uses what could have been a weapon to open and door and then just has Theon save her. There was a big opportunity here for some character development that was just totally missed.

absolutely agree.

loyatemu

PressRun wrote: »

Also, who is the "young boy" or whatever that Littlefinger wanted to give to Olenna as a gift? It couldn't have been Lancel, right? He was already confessing everything to the Sparrows by the time Littlefinger arrived back at King's Landing.

we didn't see much of Littlefinger in the latter half of the season. As with S4 I think they're struggling to keep so many storylines moving with only 10 episodes per season. Obviously killing off loads of characters will help with that.

Dan_Solo

PressRun wrote: »

The more I think about it, the more disappointed I feel with the whole story at Winterfell with Sansa. That really amounted to nothing in the end. I thought that situation was going to be a chance for her to become something other than a damsel in distress, that she'd use that corkscrew to kill Ramsey or Theon, or that she's use her wit to outsmart the Boltons or something. Instead, she uses what could have been a weapon to open and door and then just has Theon save her. There was a big opportunity here for some character development that was just totally missed.

Also, who is the "young boy" or whatever that Littlefinger wanted to give to Olenna as a gift? It couldn't have been Lancel, right? He was already confessing everything to the Sparrows by the time Littlefinger arrived back at King's Landing.

Totally. We were given the impression there was some sort of new hard edged Sansa at the end of last season (now with cleavage too!). This was sadly a red herring and she's pretty much the crying useless mess, yes often with good reason, she always was. Disappointing.

BQQ

PressRun wrote: »

Also, who is the "young boy" or whatever that Littlefinger wanted to give to Olenna as a gift? It couldn't have been Lancel, right? He was already confessing everything to the Sparrows by the time Littlefinger arrived back at King's Landing.

I'm fairly sure it was Lancel.

He told Littlefinger he'd already confessed everything, but littlefinger smelled bull****.
Obviously, he'd left out the juicy bits.

PressRun

BQQ wrote: »

I'm fairly sure it was Lancel.

He told Littlefinger he'd already confessed everything, but littlefinger smelled bull****.
Obviously, he'd left out the juicy bits.

I just don't know how littlefinger, a brothel owner, would have that kind of clout with religious fanatics. And his does imprisoning cersei really help olenna? She wants her grandchildren released, she's not really after revenge as such is shr?

DeVore

I think Sansa did grow as a character, just not very much! Facing Mistress ArrowPointy at the end there, she was pretty ballsy to be like "give it your best shot bitch". But yeah, I would have liked to see her become more of her mother... she's quite far from that atm!

I'm not sure how Tyrion could be anything but a Lannister, myself.

I didn't think Dorne was all THAT bad but I seem to be alone in that

Next season basically I want what everyone else seems to want... MOAR DRAGUNS 'N' ZOMBEHS KTHXBYE

BQQ

PressRun wrote: »

I just don't know how littlefinger, a brothel owner, would have that kind of clout with religious fanatics. And his does imprisoning cersei really help olenna? She wants her grandchildren released, she's not really after revenge as such is shr?

He doesn't have any clout with them. He just knows Lancel's secrets.
He just gave the info to Olenna and she went to the High Sparrow with it.
That would be how I saw it.

It's not exactly revenge or not only revenge anyway.
Once Cercei is arrested the Sparrows no longer have the (tacit) support of the kingdom, which means the army will be sent in and her grandchildren will be released. In theory..

RichardoKhan

When I was at School my Headmaster told me if I didnt knuckle down my future was 'Stark'...........Jeesuz !!

PressRun

BQQ wrote: »

He doesn't have any clout with them. He just knows Lancel's secrets.
He just gave the info to Olenna and she went to the High Sparrow with it.
That would be how I saw it.

It's not exactly revenge or not only revenge anyway.
Once Cercei is arrested the Sparrows no longer have the (tacit) support of the kingdom, which means the army will be sent in and her grandchildren will be released. In theory..

Yeah...I see what you're saying, but I'm still a little confused. I don't see how having Cersei thrown in prison for "crimes" totally unrelated to her own grandchildren is going to help her get them released. I thought there was something else at play, that littlefinger had someone else up his sleeve that could counter the claims against Loras or something.

catallus

I think Cersei is just going to go full-blown crazy and burn the whole city to the ground after what happened to her

wp_rathead

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm not convinced Tyrion is a lannister

What makes you think that?

BQQ

PressRun wrote: »

Yeah...I see what you're saying, but I'm still a little confused. I don't see how having Cersei thrown in prison for "crimes" totally unrelated to her own grandchildren is going to help her get them released. I thought there was something else at play, that littlefinger had someone else up his sleeve that could counter the claims against Loras or something.

Maybe.
But quite a lot has happened since then and there's still no sign of anyone else.
Hardly likely that Olenna would not use this person and let Loras and Margeray rot.
Also, the claims against Loras were true, so who can counter them except a liar.
Don't need littlefinger to find a liar in Westeros :pac:

PressRun

BQQ wrote: »

Maybe.
But quite a lot has happened since then and there's still no sign of anyone else.
Hardly likely that Olenna would not use this person and let Loras and Margeray rot.
Also, the claims against Loras were true, so who can counter them except a liar.
Don't need littlefinger to find a liar in Westeros :pac:

They are true, but if anyone can find someone to get up on the stand in front of the faith militant and say that it's all lies or can't be proven, surely Littlefinger would be the man to do it. Who was yer man who ratted Loras and Margaery out in the first place?

Puddle Q

DeVore wrote: »

I think Sansa did grow as a character, just not very much! Facing Mistress ArrowPointy at the end there, she was pretty ballsy to be like "give it your best shot bitch". But yeah, I would have liked to see her become more of her mother... she's quite far from that atm!

I'm not sure how Tyrion could be anything but a Lannister, myself.

I didn't think Dorne was all THAT bad but I seem to be alone in that

Next season basically I want what everyone else seems to want... MOAR DRAGUNS 'N' ZOMBEHS KTHXBYE

The whole Dorne thing was high camp like a Carry On film. Oooooooh matron !

[Deleted User]

PressRun wrote: »

They are true, but if anyone can find someone to get up on the stand in front of the faith militant and say that it's all lies or can't be proven, surely Littlefinger would be the man to do it. Who was yer man who ratted Loras and Margaery out in the first place?

I would both hope and imagine that little fingers plans go much higher than simply having them both released from prison.

seamus

PressRun wrote: »

I just don't know how littlefinger, a brothel owner, would have that kind of clout with religious fanatics.

It is painted pretty clearly though that the religious fanatics don't recognise "clout". All it would take is for Littlefinger to tell the High Septon, and he would ask Lancel about it.

And his does imprisoning cersei really help olenna? She wants her grandchildren released, she's not really after revenge as such is shr?

Olenna is playing the game as much as anyone. Her back was to the wall and Littlefinger offered her an opportunity to strike against Cersei. She knew the religious were being used as weapons by Cersei, so by turning those same weapons against Cersei, they become useless.

Olenna's hope/expectation now is that the crown will take action against the religious (Cersei is still going to have to face a trial), in effect resulting in the release of the queen.

PressRun

seamus wrote: »

It is painted pretty clearly though that the religious fanatics don't recognise "clout". All it would take is for Littlefinger to tell the High Septon, and he would ask Lancel about it. Olenna is playing the game as much as anyone. Her back was to the wall and Littlefinger offered her an opportunity to strike against Cersei. She knew the religious were being used as weapons by Cersei, so by turning those same weapons against Cersei, they become useless.

Olenna's hope/expectation now is that the crown will take action against the religious (Cersei is still going to have to face a trial), in effect resulting in the release of the queen.

Lancel was a sparrow before Littlefinger came back though. Would he not have unburdened himself to the high septon long before this?

I see what you're saying about hoping Cersei will wipe them out making all of these accusations irrelevant, but I would imagine Cersei would be quite happy to see Margaery and Loras taken down with them if she could. She'll presumably use the Mountain to get of her trial (if the faith play by the rules of trial by combat), but I could imagine her being fine with them taking out Margaery and Loras.

Galwayguy35

Pity they didn't kill off that useless fool Sam and his missus and be done with it, pointless annoying character IMO.

lbj666

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Pity they didn't kill off that useless fool Sam and his missus and be done with it, pointless annoying character IMO.

Stannis didn't seem to think he was pointless , which is surprising for him.
You know he is going to Oldtown ( this massive city we havent seen yet) to become a maester and is doing a load of research as to how to kill whitewaters which could come in handy. His dad Randall who hates him, also has a valerian sword . He has been a bit irritating but its only now very apparent where the aim of his character lies. But off course like anytime we have promise in a character on this show he'll probably end up being killed off on the road down there.

There also the matter of him breaking his sworn vow to the Nightswatch by leaving castleblack, so Ser Allister could have him killed.

CardBordWindow

lbj666 wrote: »

Stannis didn't seem to think he was pointless , which is surprising for him.
You know he is going to Oldtown ( this massive city we havent seen yet) to become a maester and is doing a load of research as to how to kill whitewaters which could come in handy. His dad Randall who hates him, also has a valerian sword . He has been a bit irritating but its only now very apparent where the aim of his character lies. But off course like anytime we have promise in a character on this show he'll probably end up being killed off on the road down there.

There also the matter of him breaking his sworn vow to the Nightswatch by leaving castleblack, so Ser Allister could have him killed.

Leaving Castle Black and deserting the WAtch are different though, aren't they? Wasn't Ser Allister sent to King's Landing with the hand of the wight that attacked Mormont in series 1?
Also, Yoren who took Arya from King's Landing was a member of the Nightswatch. They can be sent from the Wall as long as they don't desert.

Dan_Solo

PressRun wrote: »

She'll presumably use the Mountain to get of her trial (if the faith play by the rules of trial by combat), but I could imagine her being fine with them taking out Margaery and Loras.

As far as we know the Sparrows ignore the usual legal rules entirely and have their own system?

[Deleted User]

Dan_Solo wrote: »

As far as we know the Sparrows ignore the usual legal rules entirely and have their own system?

Isn't trial by combat based on the religion of "the seven" though?

SillyBeans

Maybe Littlefinger and the head Sparrow are in on a plot together. Maybe the Sparrow knew all along about Cersei but didn't arrest her sooner as he needed her on side to actually gain enough power to do so. Maybe they're trying to get both Cersei and the Tyrells outs of the way for some reason or another. If they have both been disgraced, it might kick off a revolt against Tommen and then the Sparrow steps in as protector of the realm while Littlefinger becomes hand of the King and becomes a very powerful man. There's so many possibilities my head may explode!!

Knex*

catallus wrote: »

I think Cersei is just going to go full-blown crazy and burn the whole city to the ground after what happened to her

Especially when she hears about her daughter. Mountain is gonna go on a zombie rampage.

Dan_Solo

Knex. wrote: »

Especially when she hears about her daughter. Mountain is gonna go on a zombie rampage.

I know he's a badass and all, but can he really affect things on that sort of scale? Surely he's for duel purposes?
Unless he is of course dual purpose.

mzungu

DeadHand wrote: »

Me too!

Obviously not as intelligent and ruthless as Tywin was (no one but Tyrion is) but seems to have the same strong vein of common sense and immunity to Cersei's nonsense.

On that point, of Tywin's three children Tyrion was the most similar in terms of personality and mental capability to the father. Jaime is just an articulate soldier. Cersei is a spoiled lunatic. Tyrion, like his father before him, is a proven administrator, diplomat, politician and general.

I think that is where a lot of the Tywin on Tyrion hate stemmed from. On top of the physical "deformity" and death of his wife there were these similarities. No loathing like self-loathing. Tywin also may have recognised in Tyrion a potential future rival.

Looking back, Tywin's eagerness to sacrifice the Imp made little sense. He was clearly of use to House Lanister and still Tywin's only male heir unburdened by a vow of chastity. Maybe his claims made on the jacks that he intended to save Tyrion all along were true. His execution would certainly seem a drastic measure for a man so obsessed with family and legacy to take simply to placate Cersei and the Tyrells.

Interesting point about Tywin and Tyrion. Maybe that was why he was sleeping with his ex!

weldoninhio wrote: »

I'm not convinced Tyrion is a lannister

If there was any uncertainty about that id say Tywin would have killed him after he was born.

PressRun wrote: »

Also, who is the "young boy" or whatever that Littlefinger wanted to give to Olenna as a gift? It couldn't have been Lancel, right? He was already confessing everything to the Sparrows by the time Littlefinger arrived back at King's Landing.

I got the impression it was someone other than Lancel. I had assumed he confessed his part in Roberts death to the sparrows by way of his insinuations to Cersei earlier in the season. However the head sparrow made no mention of this when asking Cersei to plead for forgiveness for her sins. Of course maybe the head sparrow only cares for sins of the flesh.

lbj666 wrote: »

Stannis didn't seem to think he was pointless , which is surprising for him.
You know he is going to Oldtown ( this massive city we havent seen yet) to become a maester and is doing a load of research as to how to kill whitewaters which could come in handy. His dad Randall who hates him, also has a valerian sword . He has been a bit irritating but its only now very apparent where the aim of his character lies. But off course like anytime we have promise in a character on this show he'll probably end up being killed off on the road down there.

There also the matter of him breaking his sworn vow to the Nightswatch by leaving castleblack, so Ser Allister could have him killed.

Unless the Old Town plotline is riveting, I am hoping they give more screentime to the other stories next season. I don't mind Sam as a character but if Old Town will just be time studying to be a maester whilst juggling commitments to Gilly and the baby that would get fairly old pretty quick.