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Child Item

Not sure what to do with this muddy area in garden..

[Deleted User]

Hi guys.

I'll preface this by saying I'm not great with DIY, but I'm willing to make an effort.

Pretty much, the back garden of the house has been neglected for years. It's been, essentially, a 'city dump' of sorts. It was disgusting.

Anyway, after a good effort today, the vast majority of the garden has been cleaned up, and looks a lot better. We hired a skip, and three of us got stuck in for the day.

I want to improve the garden in general. But I'm trying to tackle it 'one thing at a time'.

Here's a photo of a section of the garden, after our clean up today.

Effectively, the muck there has been there years. It's been there since the shed to the right was built. It was supposed to be carted off in a skip about 5 years ago, but laziness meant it never was.

Although it's cleaner, its still dire. I want to do something with it, but not sure what. The options as I see them are to...

1) Get another skip, a shovel, and throw all the cement blocks into the skip, and shovel away at the muck until it's all 'ground level'. Effectively, bin the whole lot of it.

2) Get a skip, get rid of the concrete blocks, and try to spread the muck out and level it off so it takes up the whole area. Keep the muck, but replace the bricks with something more presentable (coloured bricks, wood, fence/railing etc). Plant a few flowers or something.

3) Get a skip and get rid of the concrete blocks, try to put down some kinda garden tile or something on the mucky area that kinda 'ramps' down on the right, and make the 'rampy' section into a 'floor', and then make a square flower bed of the rest of it.

Either way, the horrendous looking concrete block divide thingy has to go into the bin. That's not staying. But I just dont know what to do with the muck itself. Bin it or keep it. My fear is that if flowers or such are planted, although theyll look nice, they wont be maintained and in a months time it'll be back to a mucky sludgy mess.

Has anyone got any ideas that can possibly be employed here to clean this area up a bit?

Here's a slightly wider shot of the garden:

There's obviously a lot more to do, but this small section of muck is my priority (cos it's annoying me) then I'll attack the shoddy doors on the sheds, etc. as I go along.

Cheers to anyone able to offer any insight or ideas here

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[Deleted User]

Jimmy_M wrote: »

As i say the only thing that was any way complex was working out angles and lengths of the arcs of the boarder. But you dont need a boarder.

Table is somewhat permanent, in so far as it doesnt move. If i wanted to get rid of it i'd just have to lift 2, possibly 4 deck boards - so no biggy really.

As you see from my 2 pics, I had old grey concrete slabs down before the grass. There was also a strip of poured concrete which came out v easily. I used the roll out turf. Then for the slabs/stepping stones i simply placed the slab in position and cut the turf around the boarder with a bread knife. The grass now grows nice and tight around them. The grass is gne a bit patchy and yellow on me - but i have admittedly neglected it a bit since it was laid.

Well it's all turned out quite well.. I presume you've either got a good knowledge or hand at DIY, or you've done some similar stuff before?

Jimmy_M wrote: »

Now, on your slabs... I hate to be the bearer of bad news or break your stride - but laying them onto a wooden sub-frame is certainly not the norm. After some time, possibly quicker than you think, the wood will rot and your slabs will sink.

Im no expert on it - i've never layed slabs - but what i "think" what you should have done is raked an area of dry sand/cement so its as even as possible (with a slight fall for drainage) - long straight edges and spirit levels at the ready. Then lay your slabs straight onto that - you may still have bumps and hollows but you deal with them as you go. Then sweep sand and/or cement in between the joints.
As i say im not sure thats perfectly correct, i remember reading about it in the past and there are other techniques too.

Ah it's definitely not the 'right' way of doing it. Nowhere near. But In my head, I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. A level wooden frame surely would/should support the slabs level, was my thinking.

But I'm gonna pop out and get some stuff today to make life a bit easier (paving sand and the likes). I'll take up the wood and make it again as just a box (with no joists inside) to hold the paving sand and such inside, so I can level it out.

Will hopefully make things easier (and more level).

catastrophy

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah it's definitely not the 'right' way of doing it. Nowhere near. But In my head, I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work. A level wooden frame surely would/should support the slabs level, was my thinking.

But I'm gonna pop out and get some stuff today to make life a bit easier (paving sand and the likes). I'll take up the wood and make it again as just a box (with no joists inside) to hold the paving sand and such inside, so I can level it out.

Will hopefully make things easier (and more level).

Hi KKV,

not to get into the rights and wrongs of doing the slabbed area this is how I personally have done it:

dig out the area to a depth of about 12 inches. It can be considerably less and your area looks like it will only have light traffic.

fill approx half way with "4 inch down" (stone of 4 inches in diameter or less).

over that level "quarry dust" to a depth of 2 or 3 inches compacted.

then a layer of a dry sand/cement mix, again leveled and onto which you set your paving.

overkill in dimension for your area but it gives a good solid base that will last and stay level.

In your circumstances how about using light concrete kerbing? It will raise the area slightly and you could infill that with some some compacted quarry dust/sand on which to lay the paving. It will stay stable (more so than a timber frame and soil) for a long time.

Also, you will want a very slight fall so water can drain to one side rather than pool in the middle and eventually wash out your substrate.

Just a few thoughts

[Deleted User]

Ah in fairness, you're correct, Catastrophy.. I just didn't want anything permanent incase i made a mistake a long the way, but it seems the 'doing it right' approach is actually a lot easier than the temporary solutions I'd been coming up with.

my dad has booked a week off work next week. He reckons he'll help finish the garden and said that he'd like to do the slabs. So I said okay. I'll let him at it.

I went to Chapterstone Paving and picked up seven 25kg bags of hard core, seven 25kg bags of paving slab sand and a bag of cement. Yer man working there said that this would cover the area. As i've now got a proper method of laying the slabs level, and someone who can help with laying them, after a bit of discussing with my dad and throwing ideas back and forth, I returned all the slabs back to Chapterstone (who i rang in advance, to ask would they take them back, and they said they would, so long as they weren't damaged or such, which they weren't).

So instead of my €77.50 worth of black and red slabs, I opted for a €200 'Chalice Circle' patio pac. It's slightly bigger than the tiles i was putting in. My original tiles were gonna be 2.0 x 2.8 meters. This one will be 2.7 x 2.7 meters (so a square instead of a rectangle), but it looks quite nice in my opinion, and fairly reasonably priced, too.

chalice%20circle%207.29m(1).jpg

curiousb

This might be overkill for your raised side bed, but I used it last year to make a retaining wall.

It's a dry stone wall system where the bricks slot into each other. Once it is laid on a secure, level base it is really easy to install. You can install on a concrete path, just use a base of sand to level. I laid mine on top of patio slabs.

[Deleted User]

curiousb wrote: »

This might be overkill for your raised side bed, but I used it last year to make a retaining wall.

It's a dry stone wall system where the bricks slot into each other. Once it is laid on a secure, level base it is really easy to install. You can install on a concrete path, just use a base of sand to level. I laid mine on top of patio slabs.

At 3.54 per brick, it could work out excessively expensive, would be my main concern, to be honest.

[Deleted User]

This is the way it looks things may go now.

The footpath that was at the top of the gravel (on the right) is 2" higher than the rest of the ground the deck would cover. So I think the easiest way around this is to just not deck that area, and instead, bring the deck the whole way down on the other side of the garden.

(if I lay the deck as originally planned, the majority of it will be 'floating' 2" off the ground to account for the higher raised area on the right, so my choices were to live with a floating deck, smash up the path, or move the deck off the path and use the path for something else).

So instead of putting a flowerbed, veg patch or rabbits (or whatever was going to end up in the area sandwiched between the shed and deck), it'll go up the garden a bit further on top of the footpath (which probably isn't a terrible idea anyway, as it means that if there are flowers or such there, they'll be seen and not hidden away).

Was planning to do it today, but the rain wouldn't feck off. So I'll just sleep on it and hope that tomorrow is a nicer day.

Thargor

Love this thread, keep at it...

[Deleted User]

I know I've been quiet in here lately.

I went to make a start on the decking last night (well, the frame of it anyway) and ran into a small issue of my nails being too small (I picked up a nail gun on the cheap on DoneDeal. Great gun, and had nails in it, which looked a decent size, so I just went with it).

Flew over to a place called Herco today (the fella I bought it off recommended them as a place to pick up nails), but unfortunately they were closed. I'd imagine they wont open now until Tuesday.

But I've a few bits on over the weekend to keep me occupied anyway. I also need to do some more feckin' digging in the garden :mad: to level out the area the deck will sit.

So with my Dad taking next week off work to help, me having the right nails for my nail gun, and, fingers crossed, a bit of decent weather (probably asking for a bit much, there!), the garden should be finished by the end of the week. I've a little weekend away organised on the 5th-7th, so I'm hoping it'll be done before I go.

Woodies are doing 3 for 2 on Dulux Weathershield paint at the moment (until Tuesday), so I picked up 3 tubs of magnolia to do the sheds and the long wall. Each tub is 11ltrs (10 ltrs "plus 1ltr free"), so 33ltrs in total. Should cover everything handy enough. Although I am tempted to buy another 3 tubs to do the inside of the sheds, too.. Just to try and help seal them up a bit or such (the bare concrete is very dusty). Not sure if it's a good idea or not though.

[Deleted User]

All going well, I should be posting a picture of them tomorrow, all laid in place. Wednesday at the latest (tomorrow is supposed to be a sh*t day again! :mad: ). But apparently the weather is to improve from then onwards.

I also picked up another 3 11ltr tubs of weathershield, this time in white, for the insides of the sheds.

The Assistinator

Deleted User wrote: »

All going well, I should be posting a picture of them tomorrow, all laid in place. Wednesday at the latest (tomorrow is supposed to be a sh*t day again! :mad: ). But apparently the weather is to improve from then onwards.

I also picked up another 3 11ltr tubs of weathershield, this time in white, for the insides of the sheds.

Any progress since starting to look well now.

[Deleted User]

martyo wrote: »

Any progress since

Erm....

Haha.. Well, my dad took the week off work.. full of 'we'll do this, do that, get this done", etc. Monday came and he spent a few hours moving stones around. Then said 'fcuk this for an effort', and went on the drink.

He spent wednesday morning thinking of people we could get over to do it for us.

Reliable.

Anyway, i took his idea anyway and so I've gotten a hired helper in the garden. So last week everything was supposed to be getting done, but nothing really did. Me and my helper (who admittedly, knows more about it than I do) had been at it since.

He decided the decking was the way to go for getting things started. So that was monday (so at it yesterday and today).

This is how it looks tonight:

So it's progress.. painfully slow progress, but progress nonetheless.

The chap that was doing the decking isn't around now until monday though (that was dropped on me at short notice) so i've another chap who did a bit of general building, but has a specialty in roofing, coming to work with the doors tomorrow. He had a look today and reckons it's a 'make it up as you go along' kind of a job, so we'll see how we get on.

So I've taken more of a helper role myself, really, but Im looking at things being done (and helping where i can of course) and I'm seeing ways of doing things that i would never have thought of or that I'd have dragged out for ages.

Levelling the deck alone.. i'd never have got it right on my own.

slimjimmc

Looks like a lot of work but the end result should be great.
Just make sure you can easily access the inspection chamber once you have the decking in place (building regs I think). You'll probably need to build a hatch into the decking and leave enough room so that the chamber lid can be lifted out of the way. There's one joist that seems to be sitting above the chamber so that may need to be corrected.

[Deleted User]

Yeah, the chap helping me keeps banging on about that, too. Saying we should have a 'hatch' part that opens up for ease of access.

I'll see what happens. I'm not fussed. In 27 years no one has ever come to check on it, so I am not overly concerned about it, to be honest.

[Deleted User]

One of the doors done. Will tackle the other set of doors tomorrow.

I'll use some of that Ronseal wood preserver stuff that I have, to stain the decking that's on the 'frame' of the door to try and help pull the look together a bit better, too (darken the decking up a bit). Took about 3 hours in total.

EDIT: It actually doesn't look that great in the photos there. It looks better in person. The camera really picked up on a crack running up along the right hand side at the frame, but it's not actually a crack, its just where the edge of the decking darkens out a bit. Will be fixed with some stain/preserver applied i'd say.

slinky2000

Wow great progress!

gerrybbadd

Just wanted to drop in to say well done - had to follow the thread after seeing your progress.

I'm doing a huge job myself in my garden. Garden was very wet and muddy when it rained, and it would take hours for the water to sink down off the surface.

To cut a long story short, I discovered there was a massive amount of builders rubble, fill comprised of large stones, pebbles and dust, that had set like concrete under the soil. It's 2 foot deep in places, while the soil on top is only 1 inch in other places!

I've to remove all the fill from under the soil, by hand, with shovels, a jackammer, a wheelbarrow, and removing the rubble into skips.

[Deleted User]

Moving in the right direction again today...

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There was a lot more involved in the doors on the smaller shed than on the larger shed. As you can see, the left side there is all blocked in and cemented over.

I also did one or two small tidy ups, like filling in a hole on the side of the small shed (where the kennel-style shed used to be) and such. The small shed doors look a bit odd at the bottom (as the shed is on a slant), so I'm not 100% sure what to do there. I think I might run a length of decking along the bottom of the doors (screwed into the doors themselves) to cover the gap at the bottom when they're closed over. But I'm not 100% sure if I will or not. Will see if a better idea comes into my head (or if anyone suggests anything).

It also needs a length of decking along the top of the doors, to fill in the gap, but yer man doing it didn't want to do it himself as the cement was still wet and he said it'd be best left a day or two before touching anything again. It's simple enough though so can't complain.

Both sets of doors close properly, open properly and their in-built locking/latch mechanism works fine too (they're interior french doors, so they have a little latch built inside the top and bottom of one of the doors, to keep it locked, but the other one can open/close). Probably explained that badly, but if anyone has doors like that then they'll know what I mean (and if you haven't a clue what im talking about, let me know and I'll get a pic).

The inside of the small shed (on the opposite side of where it was cemented in) is rough looking though, so that'll need to be patched up. Haven't got a picture from inside of either shed, unfortunately.

Tomorrow I'm busy, but depending how my evening goes, i might do some small cement work to just fill in the gaps in the paths. Now that I've worked a little more with cement i feel a bit more confident with it. I'm tempted to pull up my 'edging' bricks and re-lay them on a cement bed (they way they should have been done). The bricks that run up the length of the garden, a handful of them are starting to 'sag' away from the path (where the gravel was pulled back, to make space for the paving - with no gravel pressed against the bricks, they've started to 'fall' into the gravel area).

Still.. It's making progress.. Bit of paint on the sheds will help them no end.

EDIT: I also need to get two latches for the doors on the small shed, to hold them in place when they're fully open (like on the last photo). I've seen them before.. like a little hook that's on the wall, and goes into a little steel ring that's on the door. No idea what they're called but I'll find them in Woodies or Homebase or such I'm sure.

[Deleted User]

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I've to remove all the fill from under the soil, by hand, with shovels, a jackammer, a wheelbarrow, and removing the rubble into skips.

Jesus, I don't envy that :eek:

It can be very rewarding though, getting it done. My experience is overall good, although I did 'chicken out' a bit when it started to come to the more awkward stuff that I was afraid of fecking up (the doors for example). I had no real input to the doors aside from being a helper, but its still good to see them getting up there.

Doing it yourself is much more rewarding though. Cheaper too!

[Deleted User]

I notice the pictures from the first post in the thread are gone (the site im using must delete them after a while). I'll reupload everything on a different site. But for anyone interested, here are the photos from the first post in the thread (if a mod sees this, maybe he can add them to it? I can't edit the first post as it's there so long).

Cheers

Pic 1:

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Pic 2:

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[Deleted User]

A quick coat of paint today.. a definite improvement.

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It's probably cheating a bit, but the only walls that actually got a coat of paint are the two you can see (small shed, front and side). The other side of the shed didn't really get done, either, as I'd to run off.

It looks good in the pictures but in real life it's a bit patchy and you can see the pinky salmon-y colour under it at parts. So It'll need a second coat, but it's still a move in the right direction.

I'll spend a bit more time painting over the next day or two and try to get things looking a big fresher now that the sheds are effectively finished with (on the outside). Just have to cover the gap over the small shed's door and then that's them done. as far as I can see (for the moment, anyway, still have to sort out the gutter on the big shed, but thankfully the pieces i need for that are all there).

This is how the garden looks in general at the moment:

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[Deleted User]

Still moving (sloooowly) in the right direction.

Whole of the small shed painted (outside) and a bit of magnolia added to the top and bottom of the wall behind the decking (the wall itself, that's pebble-dashed, will be painted white, just to break up the magnolia of the two sheds). The top/bottom needs another coat though.

I'm a bit stuck of any ideas on what to put inside the smaller shed, though, to be honest. The bigger shed is a home gym/car wash place mish-mash, which is grand. The small shed currently has no purpose though. Can't think of anything off the top of my head though. Anyone got any ideas? It has electricity with a light on the ceiling and plenty of plug sockets.

gerrybbadd

Mini bar!

5T3PH3N

Pool table, dart board, couch and fridge.

Richie71

Check out readersheds.co.uk for some ideas. The pub sheds would be my favourite!! The 2015 final is on Sunday night @ 8 on channel 4.

[Deleted User]

Richie71 wrote: »

Check out readersheds.co.uk for some ideas. The pub sheds would be my favourite!! The 2015 final is on Sunday night @ 8 on channel 4.

I was actually looking on that website, alright, for some inspiration. Great site!

gerrybbadd wrote: »

Mini bar!

The thought of doing a miniature pub was in my head alright.

5T3PH3N wrote: »

Pool table, dart board, couch and fridge.

Might be a bit of a tight fit... Pool table could be quite costly i'd imagine :P

Can I ask ye guys, I've effectively left the decking to a chap that I know, as I've been running off a bit myself, lately.

I agreed with him I'd throw him €100 per day and he could do the decking and paving. He's a pretty good handy man, so he has a few bits on working elsewhere doing other bits and pieces.

However, I've started to get a bit frustrated as I feel (perhaps wrongly) that, for someone who has done a lot of decking, he's going painfully slow about it..

For example, the photos above are of how the place looked yesterday when he finished up (deck half-laid). After a full day today, he has the whole lot of the deck laid on top, and he has 2 posts at the front (for the hand rail).

He still hasn't got a foundation for the 'steps' on the left, or anything like that. just a full floor and two posts installed at the front. I can't help but feel this is an example of someone getting paid by the day, having it handy, and therefore dragging it out as long as they can?

(i'm not around as much as I'd like, so he's working away in the garden on his own, has a key of the house so comes and goes as he pleases, etc. no one watching him or working with him or anything so it's a handy enough job, in that regard).

Is he taking the piss? I've already agreed with him that I'd get him on Monday (next day he's available) but I'm thinking of trying to get some one different to do the paving. So far he's put 4 full days into doing the decking (and it's still missing it's hand rail, sides are exposed and no base/foundation for steps at the left).

(in fairness, i'd say 3 days, as the first day involved knocking the little kennel style shed and such, and I'd say that would have eaten into his day a lot?).

Just looking for opinions incase I'm being a bit naive, myself.

gerrybbadd

I'd say he is to be fair. It's not a massive area, and with 4 days he should be more or less finished by now. 2 days, going good, should have finished it

Redriddick

Agreed.I put down my own deck 20ft x 16ft with a raised hexagon area about 12ft x 12ft in 1 day.
Took another day to do the handrails.
Now they were long days though but he should be well through that!!!!

[Deleted User]

Yeah I thought as much alright. I've already paid him for Monday, but that'll be his last day at it. He did do excellent work, in fairness, but it'll be 5 days he'll be at it, and it looks like I won't have a completed deck by then, even.

I'm a bit busy for the next week or so and my dad's on my back to get it done, so i got in touch with another chap earlier. He said he'll pop up and take a look at the paving later on today and quote an all in price. So at least that'll be that done.

[Deleted User]

Well I pulled him up on it and he said he did agree that it was taking longer than he had anticipated it would, so what he'd do is finish the job without charging any thing more. I said that was fair enough (but at the same time, not sure I feel comfortable having him working for nothing, either! On the other hand, my budget has pretty much been wiped out, so I'm in a bit of a moral dilemma..

).

I told him I'd help him out and we'd bull through it together as quick as possible. So we did a half-day together in the garden on Monday and got stuck in. This evening I pulled off the old gutter from the shed and screwed the new brackets into place. As of this evening, this is how it's currently looking:

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I was the one that started pulling up the ground for the paving, while he continued to tick away at the decking.

I have a question for ye guys - The post-toppers that are on the posts aren't actually fixed into place. They're just sitting there. Incase anyone's not sure what I'm talking about, it's the circled pieces here:

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He reckons he can route a design around the edges of them. Personally, I think they look far too thick and are, to be honest, pretty siht looking. I have lengths of wood in the shed that are about half the thickness and I think they'd look a lot better there instead. Am I a bit mad in thinking that or..? I think they completely take the look off the deck (although that hand rail isn't how I'd have done it myself anyway, but I don't mind the general design of it).

A very, very nice Boardsie has messaged me too, and said he picked up some floor paint for his shed. He said he still have a bit left, and reckons it could do the floor in my small shed and said I could have it if I wanted it! Naturally, I'll take him up on that. Fair play to him. Exceptionally nice thing to do. I won't name him incase he doesn't want to be named but it's a really nice gesture in my opinion. Really re-enforces the community feel of this forum too.

Alkers

You could make the smaller shed into your utility - plumb in for a sink, washing machine, dryer / a good few airing racks. Then shelve off the remainder for storage to keep the bigger shed free from clutter so you can use it as an extra room.