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S05 Ep10 - "Mother's Mercy" - HAVE NOT READ THE BOOKS

Al Capwned

**** THE LOT OF IT.

Then **** it some more.

And **** the watch.
And **** Stannis.
And **** GRRM.
And **** "a man".
And **** the writers.

Then **** it another bit.

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Dan_Solo

karma_ wrote: »

After what he did to Shireen, there was no redemption for Stannis.

I don't get what you mean. Following the Red Witch's orders were exactly what got Stannis this far. Why would it suddenly be the reason for his downfall?

PressRun

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I don't get how she didn't know this until about 10 minutes before Stannis' army got smashed. Her fire god is a bit feckin' random for anybody to be following if you ask me.
They must have multilevel underground stables too at Winterfell!

I think the idea is that she has misinterpreted the visions or prophecies or whatever. That's why she's in shock at the end, I think. She realizes she's made a huge mistake. She's had her eye on Jon Snow all season. She knows there's something to him.

NomadicGray

Old Perry wrote: »

how did jorah, tyrion and darrio manage to get out of the pits?

Armour. Extremely thick plot armour.

Dan_Solo

Old Perry wrote: »

maybe she did know? maybe she seen stannis's ultimate fate, death at the hands of brienne or losing a/the battle for winterfell. could be that is why she left knowing jon snow ( and who jon really is) needs help.

how did jorah, tyrion and darrio manage to get out of the pits?

But why would she even believe her new "visions" herself when she's apparently been lead on by her god for years that Stannis would win?
I was a bit stunned nobody put a knife in her as soon as she got through the Castle Black gate TBH. Nobody particularly likes her, and they know now she deserted Stannis too.

Dan_Solo

PressRun wrote: »

The theory is that Jon has king's blood too, that he's part Targaryean.

I had assumed Stannis was the "true" king therefore his blood was special. Anybody with any connection to anybody who's ruled will do now? Seems tenuous.

J. Marston

Qyburn is obviously creepy but there's a weird kindness to him also.

FortuneChip

Very strange episode all round, pretty good though.

I don't mind whether it's good/evil characters that bite the bullet, once their stories have reached such a conclusion.
Jon's story was nowhere near a conclusion. Since Season 1 there's been something mysterious about his lineage, he's the only one other than Sam that knows Valyrian steel can do a bit of damage, Red Woman fully saw him to be someone of importance.
He wasn't a character that sought an end game, but there was one he was definitely destined for, and that's the only reason I see any weight in the resurrection theories (not usually a fan of "back from the dead stories", as they cheapen the death, especially with moral characters).

You look at the other favourites that have gone in the past, at least their stories reached a climax (albeit abrupt).
Oberyn was out for vengeance. The Mountain & Tywin won. He wasn't tied to the main arc at all.
Nor was Robb really. Ultimately he wanted justice for what happened to Ned, he lost to Roose & Tywin.

Stannis was always a strange enough one. He went straight for the throne in season 2. But afterwards shifted towards the bigger issue in the north, which I thought gave him a bit more credibility and purpose. "Protector of the Realm", but then shifted his focus into the political side of things with Roose again.

One thing is for sure, Season 10 (or whatever) - Episode 10 - Final Scene
Danearys sitting on Ramsay's lap on the Iron Throne.
"Oh Rambo, what a glorious time we live in."
Rambo eyes her menacingly.
"If you think thing has a happy ending... I'm going to start paying attention"

AnLonDubh

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I assume Jaqen is simply a persona any cultist can wear and acolyte #1456 died, who possibly never spoke to Arya prior to that scene.

PressRun

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I had assumed Stannis was the "true" king therefore his blood was special. Anybody with any connection to anybody who's ruled will do now? Seems tenuous.

I don't think it's ever said that only Stannis' blood will do. She uses leeches on Gendry a few seasons back because she knows there's something about him too (he's Robert's bastard).

Also, the fact that Stannis was trounced in battle would kind of prove that she misinterpreted the signs.

Dan_Solo

PressRun wrote: »

I don't think it's ever said that only Stannis' blood will do. She uses leeches on Gendry a few seasons back because she knows there's something about him too (he's Robert's bastard).

Also, the fact that Stannis was trounced in battle would kind of prove that she misinterpreted the signs.

I think the fact she ultimately had no idea what was happening and her magic/god failed utterly to materialise makes her a bit of a dead duck now to be honest. Who'd honestly march under her banner now?
I'd also think it would be good advice for anybody she's endorsing to set up some sort of royal blood breeding programme for ammunition!

2ndcoming

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I had assumed Stannis was the "true" king therefore his blood was special. Anybody with any connection to anybody who's ruled will do now? Seems tenuous.

You should take the time to read the books, all of these deeper ideas and more complex histories are visited in much greater detail and if you're the kind of person who's going to look under the surface of the show's plots at all it will be a much more enjoyable experience.

For a start the way the books are written - each chapter from one of the main character's point of view - a lot of it is expressed in that person's thoughts which obviously is gonna be hard to get across on screen.

Most of the Deus Ex Machina plot solutions seen this season are down to the mass condensing of the story to make it fit and make it work within budget.

DerekDGoldfish

Other 9 or 10 months to wait and I cant even catch up in the books and read ahead.

I've just watched two cats (not mine) fight over a tree stump in my back garden, the ginger cat defeated the black one read into that what you will.

PressRun

Dan_Solo wrote: »

I think the fact she ultimately had no idea what was happening and her magic/god failed utterly to materialise makes her a bit of a dead duck now to be honest. Who'd honestly march under her banner now?
I'd also think it would be good advice for anybody she's endorsing to set up some sort of royal blood breeding programme for ammunition!

Well, if Jon rises from the dead, she'll probably march under his banner rather than the other way around given that would fit in with the second coming prophecy of her religion.

Dan_Solo

2ndcoming wrote: »

You should take the time to read the books

If I need to have read the book to know what's happening then the writers of the TV show have, by definition, failed in their job.

AnLonDubh

2ndcoming wrote: »

Most of the Deus Ex Machina plot solutions seen this season are down to the mass condensing of the story to make it fit and make it work within budget.

I don't think Drogon's rescue at least was a Deus Ex Machina, I mean he is a well established element of the plot.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Wasn't that shocked when Jon got stabbed, at this point after season 1 and the red wedding etc, it's to be expected.

It would actually be more shocking at this point if the main invested character lived and something good happened.

It's actually started to get predictable now in an unorthodox sort of way.

Knex*

Even taking the whole Jon Snow scene out of it, I thought that episode was pretty terrible.

Too rushed, too many coincidences, skipped scenes/storylines, and just overall, poorly done. Was rather annoyed once those end credits came up.

Dan_Solo

nm wrote: »

Wasn't that shocked when Jon got stabbed, at this point after season 1 and the red wedding etc, it's to be expected.

The microsecond I saw the Traitor sign I was "GET YOUR VALERIAN OUT JON!". Of course, being a Stark, he just stood there like a dick and waited for it.

lbj666

PressRun wrote: »

I think it's really risky business to kill off really compelling characters like Jon, Tywin, Oberyn, Ned, etc. for the sake of what just feels like shock value sometimes. Most of these are really great, nuanced characters that made the show interesting in the first place. Nobody watches for the likes of the Mountain, frankly.

As a friend said to me, if they kill all the best characters, then people are just going to end up watching just to see how it ends, not because they're truly invested in it, which is a pretty shallow way to watch a show.

Thats very well said , i mean i can see why book readers have been so eager for the next book to come out because things have been left at such an abyss of grimness and misery that they are hoping to come up from it as soon as possible.

I said on the episode 9 thread that what seems to keeps the intrigue for book readers as they go deeper into the series is what is it exactly what GRRM "getting at" and they come up with theories and phophecies all lot of which brings what is going on together and they get a serious kick out of the world building he has done. There is very little scope for that for tv viewers.

The_Valeyard

This is the most depressing show. Seriously, do the good guys always loses.

NomadicGray

So where was Ghost when **** was going wrong for Jon?
Isnt he usually watching out for him?

lbj666

Dan_Solo wrote: »

The microsecond I saw the Traitor sign I was "GET YOUR VALERIAN OUT JON!". Of course, being a Stark, he just stood there like a dick and waited for it.

Oh the sword you mean?

Dan_Solo

lbj666 wrote: »

Oh the sword you mean?

I would have said "get your Targaryan out" if that's what I meant!

BoJack Horseman

So,

Jon: Dead
Stannis: Dead
Sansa: Dead
Reek: Dead
Marcella: Dead
Danny: Captured.
Zombie Mountain: Dead....but not dead.
Arya: Blinded.

Busy episode, but on the whole, not a great one.
Feel strangely empty about it all.

The line from the sand-snake geebag to Bronn... Terrible.

Encrypted Pigeon

thought darrios description of grey worm was good. "he is the toughest man with no balls that I know"

Honestly after that episode, I'm lost at who I want to root for now.

youngblood

No Bran?

V disappointed overall

NomadicGray

youngblood wrote: »

No Bran?

V disappointed overall

Wasnt it specified before the season began that his story would be untouched.

dark crystal

Encrypted Pigeon wrote: »

Honestly after that episode, I'm lost at who I want to root for now.

This is it. Who actually deserves to sit on the Iron Throne now at this stage?

Tyrion would be the most logical answer, but Martin will probably kill him off too before the end. The sadist.

TouchingVirus

Gway and shíte. Jon

Degag

They just showed a clip of Maester Aemon saying "Kill the boy" to Jon Snow on that Thronecast show. Forewarning?