An emotional affair...

ceadaoin. wrote: »

He is having an emotional affair with you and you have talked about wanting to be together. His wife has seen these messages and is understandably upset. Doesn't make her a jealous loon. Her husband has been emailing/texting another woman and professing mutual attraction and future plans. How do you expect her to react?!

You need to re-read what I wrote. I said she's a jealous loon because of behaviour she's displayed in the past and because without any provocation or evidence that her husband is in contact with another woman she goes through his phone bills and internet history!

What would you think if your partner behaved like that?! I call that being irrationally jealous. Not to mention a gross invasion of privacy, married or not.
And she didn't find any evidence of stated future plans with me because we didn't write anything about that in texts or on Linkedin. We did via our emails but she didn't find that.
And yes I can understand her jealousy at what she did find, not denying that.

But she's put her head in the sand for years about the state of her marriage, time to get real and have the discussion about it with her husband. She knows he's not happy and she can't be either, so how does it benefit anyone to continue the charade playing happy families at the weekend?
But it's up to them.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

In fact it would seem this unhappiness is all one sided and as far as his wife was concerned they are very much together.

Like I explained, she knows he's not happy and also knows he's not in love with her any more. Seems to me she's more afraid of being on her own than facing up to the state of her marriage because then she'd be forced to take steps to dissolve it.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Obviously his behaviour has clued her in to something being up, hence the message reading. Or maybe he has previous form for cheating. Why wasn't he honest with her before getting caught if he so wants to leave?

Nope, he's never cheated in 20 years of marriage, I asked him straight and yes I believe him. You can believe it or not, but I know him.

And there was nothing in his behaviour that clued her in. She only found the texts after he picked her up from the airport after been on holiday for three weeks (she borrowed his phone to call her brother). He thought he'd erased all messages, but because of a hectic stressful day and tiredness he missed one.
He emailed me in work or when she was out of the house only, and we've only met a few times outside work. There's nothing for her to be suspicious about.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

A bit of empathy wouldn't go amiss. If you really are going to be together then you better get used to her as she will be in your lives through his child. If he does leave it will probably be because she dumps him, she has a good enough reason to. The reality is is he is probably begging her for another chance, not waiting for the dust to settle to split.

I do have empathy, but I'd have more if she faced up to things, behaved like an adult and tone down the irrational behaviour.

Yes I know how it would be if we will be together. So long as she doesn't go off the deep end with me I'll treat her as I do everyone else-with respect.

And he's not the type to beg for anything, but you don't know that of course.
He doesn't love her and the one and only reason he would stay with her and has done so since his son was born was so he could be in his son's life full time.
He knows men get shafted in many separation and divorces financially and as regard access to their kids.

Quite honestly I won't blame him if he decides he can't leave her until his son reaches the age of reason when he can explain to him why he has to split with his mother. He wants to be in his son't life as much as possible in these formative years-he's a good Dad who's devoted to his son. I'm prepared for that.

Saralee4 wrote: »

How come those serial cheaters always marry looney women?

He's not a serial cheater. And read how I described her behaviour.

Greentopia wrote: »

You need to re-read what I wrote. I said she's a jealous loon because of behaviour she's displayed in the past and because without any provocation or evidence that her husband is in contact with another woman she goes through his phone bills and internet history!

Um.

He IS in touch with another woman.

It's you!

And even if that was before he started getting intimate with you, you know he has form for this. So she is not so much jealous as...right!

eviltwin wrote: »

Personally I don't see any relationship as over until they are apart and living separate lives. I'm not going to judge you, you can't help who you fall for after all, just protect your own interests. Sounds like he has major baggage. It's a lot to take on.

Thank you. You're right, it's not over until people live separate lives apart, I just meant emotionally.

Greentopia wrote: »

Thank you. You're right, it's not over until people live separate lives apart, I just meant emotionally.

Even just being friends might be hard if he's not prepared to walk away, you've cross a line that makes your relationship more than just friends now and its going to be hard to revert back to any kind of normal friendship if he stays.

I can see what he gets out of this, he has his emotional fulfillment from you while hanging onto the stability of his marriage, what's in it for you?

eternal

Peruzzi wrote: »

They can come onto whatever guys they want so long as they never agreed with anyone that they wouldn't.

What's that supposed to mean? If there are two people married or in a long term relationship then some other individual should not be sniffing around trying to cause trouble.

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, you say ultra jealous loon. It seems the more apt description would be "perceptive". Because clearly he has form for being "emotionally intimate" with other women, you know this as he is thus with you. Plus even if he is to be believed, he is only waiting for the right time to dump her.

Oh god. I addressed this already-he doesn't have form. He's never cheated-told me straight out and yes I believe him. All his actions and interactions with me (because talk can count for little, that I know) up to now tells me he's honest and truthful.
And it's not a question of 'dumping' her. He's been married to the woman for twenty years since he was 18, they have a kid together and wants to do things right and treat her justly and fairly when they split. Just because he's fallen out of love with his wife and has formed a closeness with another woman doesn't make him an uncaring asshole!

Deleted User wrote: »

How would you feel if you were in a relationship and found out your partner was hawking details of that relationship around? I would have thought you would be upset, and you would dislike the thought of you being portrayed as some ultra jealous type.

Hawking details around? what do you mean? I haven't mentioned any names or other personal information here and nor would I!

And I've never rooted through a partner's personal information like bills or social network sites looking for evidence of cheating! if I didn't trust a partner to be emotionally faithful I wouldn't be with him in the first place.
Emotionally faithful being the key words there as I don't have a problem with a partner sleeping with other women if it's just sex. But that's a whole other topic...

eternal wrote: »

What's that supposed to mean? If there are two people married or in a long term relationship then some other individual should not be sniffing around trying to cause trouble.

The third party can only cause trouble if the attached person lets them. Its easy to tell someone to get lost.

eternal

eviltwin wrote: »

The third party can only cause trouble if the attached person lets them. Its easy to tell someone to get lost.

Men (or women) are easily seduced.

seenitall

eternal wrote: »

Men are easily seduced.

LOL

Poor dears...

ceadaoin.

eternal wrote: »

Men are easily seduced.

Is it just men that cheat now?

Deleted User wrote: »

Um.

He IS in touch with another woman.

It's you!

And even if that was before he started getting intimate with you, you know he has form for this. So she is not so much jealous as...right!

Yes, but as I explained, she's always been irrationally jealous... before finding anything! I gave an example and it's not the only one.

Form for what?? I'm not repeating myself again ffs. Believe what you want. You don't know the guy, I do.

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes, but as I explained, she's always been irrationally jealous... before finding anything! I gave an example and it's not the only one.

Form for what?? I'm not repeating myself again ffs. Believe what you want. You don't know the guy, I do.

You are only hearing what he is telling you in fairness, he's going to paint himself the victim isn't he? And you mentioned a 4 yr old son, so things were all well at least 5 years ago, are you sure he is being honest with you?

seenitall

So, how long are you willing to wait for this guy to leave his marriage, Greentopia?

Til his child is at an age of reason? How many years is that?

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes, but as I explained, she's always been irrationally jealous... before finding anything! I gave an example and it's not the only one.

Form for what?? I'm not repeating myself again ffs. Believe what you want. You don't know the guy, I do.

I appreciate you are getting rattled, and you are peppering your answers with "ffs" stuff.

But let's review matters again, he's married for 20 years, you are emotionally intimate with him, he deletes your texts so his wife won't see them, you are waiting for him to dump his wife, he says he will do so, but apparently he sticks with her for the kids sake, he hawks details of his relationship around (again, he told then to you)...and you have the cheek to call his wife irrationally jealous?

It's all fairly seedy and pathetic from where I'm sitting. But in fairness you know him, so despite all the pointers listed above screaming "run away" you are entitled to cling to your trust in him.

Greentopia wrote: »

if I didn't trust a partner to be emotionally faithful I wouldn't be with him in the first place.
Emotionally faithful being the key words there as I don't have a problem with a partner sleeping with other women if it's just sex. But that's a whole other topic...

So you have no problem with him being emotionally intimate with other women. Like you.

And you have no problem with married men being sexually intimate with other women.

So you have no problem with any level of cheating. But you don't like jealous wives!

He must be some operator if he has you churning out nonsense like that. He should give courses in it!

Penny Tration

Greentopia wrote: »

He's not a serial cheater. And read how I described her behaviour.

Ah yeah, sure it's always the loony wife's fault.

It's obviously utterly impossible for him to tell her the marriage is over, she'd probably get more loony and stab him!

Seriously, he's an adult. He can tell her it's over. You're as bad as each other and you're both participating in him cheating. Don't pretend it's not cheating.

Wonder who his emotional intimacy will be with when you take his wife's place?

eviltwin wrote: »

Even just being friends might be hard if he's not prepared to walk away, you've cross a line that makes your relationship more than just friends now and its going to be hard to revert back to any kind of normal friendship if he stays.

I can see what he gets out of this, he has his emotional fulfillment from you while hanging onto the stability of his marriage, what's in it for you?

The most rational, astute and level headed replies to what I've written, and you haven't tried to paint me as something I'm not, I appreciate that.

Yes believe me I've thought of that. Friendship may indeed be impossible if things don't work out. I hope not, but it's a possibility for the reason you gave.

What's in it for me is the possibility of having a life with a man who I'm deeply attracted to (this doesn't happen very often for me!), who I have so much in common with and who I respect deeply. In every other way apart from the fact that he's married we're perfect for each other. That's why I have to give this every chance to work out. If this is the man I'm supposed to be with I have to give it every chance within reason to succeed.

But I should add-he doesn't get anything out of holding onto the "stability of his marriage" except for the sake of being there for his son.

ceadaoin.

Greentopia wrote: »

Yes, but as I explained, she's always been irrationally jealous... before finding anything! I gave an example and it's not the only one.

Form for what?? I'm not repeating myself again ffs. Believe what you want. You don't know the guy, I do.

Always irrationally jealous according to him. No form according to him.

You would probably learn a lot if you spoke to his wife. From your posts it sounds like he's wanted to leave for many years but his child is fairly young so it can't be that long? Of course, he's painted her as a crazy person now so you wouldn't believe her anyway if she contradicted his account.

The fact is he is conducting an affair with another woman behind his wife's back and has left it until he's been caught (because he wasn't sneaky enough that day and forgot to delete a message) to fess up.

Colser

Greentopia wrote: »

The most rational, astute and level headed replies to what I've written, and you haven't tried to paint me as something I'm not, I appreciate that.

Yes believe me I've thought of that. Friendship may indeed be impossible if things don't work out. I hope not, but it's a possibility for the reason you gave.

What's in it for me is the possibility of having a life with a man who I'm deeply attracted to (this doesn't happen very often for me!), who I have so much in common with and who I respect deeply. In every other way apart from the fact that he's married we're perfect for each other. That's why I have to give this every chance to work out. If this is the man I'm supposed to be with I have to give it every chance within reason to succeed.

But I should add-he doesn't get anything out of holding onto the "stability of his marriage" except for the sake of being there for his son.

If he has been married for 20 yrs to that poor woman when did he realise that she was a loon? Did he not spot anything in the 16 years before they had a child that would in any way indicated that she had problems and he could have walked away with no ties?

My heart goes out to her btw

eviltwin wrote: »

You are only hearing what he is telling you in fairness, he's going to paint himself the victim isn't he? And you mentioned a 4 yr old son, so things were all well at least 5 years ago, are you sure he is being honest with you?

The victim? that's not how he's coming across and he doesn't want sympathy for his situation. He knows he's to blame too for letting it go on for so long.

Honest about what? the fact that he had sex with his wife 5 years ago for a much longed for child they tried for 10 years to conceive-what does that have to do with how he feels about her now? it was the years of trying for a child actually that put a strain on the marriage in the first place, but they were drifting apart for years.

He doesn't just tell me things context free you know. When you get to know someone if you're at all perceptive you begin to see patterns. Patterns of speech and behaviour that show if someone can be trusted or not in what they tell you.
I'm no fool and am not in the habit of being taken for one by any man let me assure you.

Greentopia wrote: »

The most rational, astute and level headed replies to what I've written, and you haven't tried to paint me as something I'm not, I appreciate that.

Yes believe me I've thought of that. Friendship may indeed be impossible if things don't work out. I hope not, but it's a possibility for the reason you gave.

What's in it for me is the possibility of having a life with a man who I'm deeply attracted to (this doesn't happen very often for me!), who I have so much in common with and who I respect deeply. In every other way apart from the fact that he's married we're perfect for each other. That's why I have to give this every chance to work out. If this is the man I'm supposed to be with I have to give it every chance within reason to succeed.

But I should add-he doesn't get anything out of holding onto the "stability of his marriage" except for the sake of being there for his son.

I don't think you have done anything wrong at all. I fell in love with a friend, someone I used to say I would never have any romantic feelings for but it happened, I was just lucky we were both single. It took me totally by surprise so I can see how easily it can happen. You don't have the relationship, everyone will say you should stay away regardless but its easy to say that. The person with the relationship is always the one who needs to set the boundries imo.

I know if you were my daughter or friend I would be telling you to step back, put a bit of distance between you and see what happens, give him the space to end things with his wife but I know its easier said than done. I don't think anyone puts themselves in the position you are in out of spite or to intentionally break up a family, its a tough place to be, it would be so much easier to find someone single but you have feelings for this man so you probably make allowances as we all do when we are in love.

I would just really hate to see this guy mess you around and I'm saying that very aware of the fact you have an insight that we on the thread don't, its easy for us to put it down to a typical married man who wants to have his cake and eat it. You do seem to be a lot more realistic and level headed than a lot of people in this situation, you have your line in the sand that you have set for him, don't move that line no matter what he says. If its meant to be and he feels that way he will do what he needs to to make it happen. I appreciate he has a kid and that is an extra complication but don't put yourself last, lots of people with kids move into new relationships and make it work, he can too.

Good luck, if his marriage really is over I hope he can find it in himself to end it so everyone can move on and find happiness

Greentopia wrote: »

The victim? that's not how he's coming across and he doesn't want sympathy for his situation. He knows he's to blame too for letting it go on for so long.

Honest about what? the fact that he had sex with his wife 5 years ago for a much longed for child they tried for 10 years to conceive-what does that have to do with how he feels about her now? it was the years of trying for a child actually that put a strain on the marriage in the first place, but they were drifting apart for years.

He doesn't just tell me things context free you know. When you get to know someone if you're at all perceptive you begin to see patterns. Patterns of speech and behaviour that show if someone can be trusted or not in what they tell you.
I'm no fool and am not in the habit of being taken for one by any man let me assure you.

I'm sorry but I just don't buy that. If you and your spouse are both of the opinion that your marriage is over I don't see why or how you would be having sex. Its different if one person is drifting away and the other is unaware of it, its easy to keep going just to have a quiet life.

How close of a friend is this guy? Do you know his wife? Do you know his other friends, her friends, are there other people who can confirm that they are on their last legs? Have you been in their company together to see how they are with each other?

Again, you know better than anyone what he is saying and you are the best judge of how sincere he is, I'm not trying to imply you're being taken for a fool here or that you are stupid or anything so apologies if that is how it comes across.

seenitall wrote: »

So, how long are you willing to wait for this guy to leave his marriage, Greentopia?

Til his child is at an age of reason? How many years is that?

I'll know more when I meet him next month and he tells me what the state of play is. If I'm not happy with the answers I get I'm backing off.

Of course I'm not going to wait yearsand the answer is probably until the child is 10 or 11? I don't know really, that's for him to decide if he does stay with her.

If he decides to stay married for the sake of his son then I'll stay in contact but only as a friend. I'm not becoming more emotionally invested in a guy I can't be with properly for years. That's a recipe for heartache. I'll try and move on and find someone else.

Greentopia wrote: »

The most rational, astute and level headed replies to what I've written, and you haven't tried to paint me as something I'm not, I appreciate that.

Ah. More passive aggression!

That should charm posters around to your "married men can be emotionally intimate with other women, married men can be sexually intimate with other women...but their wives can't be jealous" logic!

But it still won't get over the rest of the stuff. At least do know that there is not the first cousin if logic or reason in it though, hence your "I know him and I trust him" bleating.

eviltwin wrote: »

Do you know his wife?

Enough to call her a jealous loon because she suspects her husband, who is intimate with other women, may be intimate with other women!

PARlance

eviltwin wrote: »

Again, you know better than anyone what he is saying and you are the best judge of how sincere he is, I'm not trying to imply you're being taken for a fool here or that you are stupid or anything so apologies if that is how it comes across.

I know you're trying to be nice but I can't see that she is anything but a fool.
Anyone who buys this "wait for me" charade is a fool.
If he loved her, he would leave his wife.
If he loved the kid, he would leave his wife.
Better to seperate for the kids sake rather than that kid potentially finding out their father was cheating on his mother (nearly) all their life.

He seems fairly skilled (despite one blip) at having an affair, knowing of his "looney" wifes mistrust... chances are it's not his first.
I don't know the guy, but we all know "the guy".

But maybe, just maybe, he'll be the one in a million that follows through. Maybe.
Good luck wasting your life finding out Greentopia.

Deleted User wrote: »

I appreciate you are getting rattled, and you are peppering your answers with "ffs" stuff.

I'm getting frustrated because you're replying before really reading what I've already written or else you're just disregarding it and I don't like having to repeat myself.

Deleted User wrote: »

But let's review matters again, he's married for 20 years, you are emotionally intimate with him, he deletes your texts so his wife won't see them, you are waiting for him to dump his wife, he says he will do so, but apparently he sticks with her for the kids sake, he hawks details of his relationship around (again, he told then to you)...and you have the cheek to call his wife irrationally jealous?

Well if he will stick with her any longer is yet to be determined.
He doesn't "hawk details around" about anyone. He's actually a very private man and it took a good while before he opened up to me about his marriage. His own family thinks his marriage is fine as he doesn't talk to them about it-and he has a good relationship with them, especially his brothers.

Deleted User wrote: »

It's all fairly seedy and pathetic from where I'm sitting. But in fairness you know him, so despite all the pointers listed above screaming "run away" you are entitled to cling to your trust in him.

Ok, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not clinging to anything though. I either trust someone or I don't. If I don't they don't enter or stay in my life for long if they've shown themselves to be untrustworthy. I know at this stage in my life who I can and can't trust-I'm quite perceptive and experience in that regard is one of the benefits of ageing. :-)

beks101

Oh Greentopia. I understand all too well how emotions can muddy the waters, but from a bystander's point of view this is so textbook it's just all a bit cringe. It's like watching two cars speeding towards each other...

Every single Cheating Married Man in the history of all time has told his Other-Woman-to-be that his marriage was dead in the waters, his wife didn't understand him and he's only staying for the children. Every last one of them.

To be perfectly honest, I'm as laidback as they come in my relationship, we complement each other perfectly in that respect, but if I suspected my OH had another woman on the side and was bare-faced lying to my face about it repeatedly, to the point where I was questioning my own sanity, I'd be pushed to the brink as well. Phones, iPads, PCs, emails, whatsapp messages, I'd be checking them all.

If we were married? I'd be stalking the guy. Following him to work with binoculars. Marriage is hard work, it's an investment, it's her life. 20 years she's spent with this man. 20 years and a child. Who are you, who probably knows him a comparative five minutes, to say their relationship is a farce, just because he told you so with his own disloyal intentions?

I'd be needing some evidence. Divorce papers. A new place of residence and shared custody documents. Anything less than that and you're just another cliche I'm afraid.

Greentopia wrote: »

What's in it for me is the possibility of having a life with a man who I'm deeply attracted to (this doesn't happen very often for me!), who I have so much in common with and who I respect deeply. In every other way apart from the fact that he's married we're perfect for each other.

I nearly LOLd at this. Most people would stop here.

Channing Tatum and I would be perfect for each other, only he's a movie star.

I know we're not living in a black-and-white world and relationships start and end with so much overlap in the real world, but if Married Man isn't enough of a red traffic light, I think you need to take a good, hard look at yourself.