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Liffey quays cycle route: Detailed drawings online

monument

Here: http://www.dublincitycycling.ie/blog/?p=1479

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lucernarian

AngryLips wrote: »

You seem to be working on the assumption that one day public transport will be able to do for you all the things that your car can. This is never going to happen. It's not a shamble, hundreds of millions of people use it every year in Dublin alone and it's hard to imagine it adding an hour to anyone's journey - that's just hyperbole.

Hundreds of millions of people?! But I agree otherwise:o

beauf

Some people do try to go through the busiest, worst route, at peak time.

I got a lift from a colleague once, and they took 1hr 30 mins to do a journey I did in about 40mins at the same time, just a different route. The colleague refused to try it. Continued to do the same route for years. They only knew one way, and weren't willing (or able?) to learn a new route.

So if you drive up the quays at peak in the morning, its probably is possible to make your journey an hour longer.

On a normal day. I don't see how you could do the same on public transport.

AngryLips

lucernarian wrote: »

Hundreds of millions of people?! But I agree otherwise:o

Dublin Bus alone carried over 100m people last year

[Deleted User]

AngryLips wrote: »

You seem to be working on the assumption that one day public transport will be able to do for you all the things that your car can. This is never going to happen. It's not a shamble, hundreds of millions of people use it every year in Dublin alone and it's hard to imagine it adding an hour to anyone's journey - that's just hyperbole.

I want to agree with you but i am a Dublin bus driver and i know how long it can take to drive from suburbs to city.

When i lived in a dublin suburb i was working in dame Street in an office at office hours and it was an awful lot faster to use the car than take the bus or use the luas . More comfortable and all sorts too.

Bus must be the slowest mode of transport getting stuck behind cyclists and traffic and bus stops along with being slow in general. This diversion will make it slower again along the route

Plus this dual cycle Lane, i thought people didn't want to cross over the bridge to cross back again ?

I.e people going home in the south quays won't bother going to the north quays if it's out of their way.

monument

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I want to agree with you but i am a Dublin bus driver and i know how long it can take to drive from suburbs to city.

When i lived in a dublin suburb i was working in dame Street in an office at office hours and it was an awful lot faster to use the car than take the bus or use the luas . More comfortable and all sorts too.

Bus must be the slowest mode of transport getting stuck behind cyclists and traffic and bus stops along with being slow in general. This diversion will make it slower again along the route

Option 3 will give greater priority to buses than car traffic. The impacts on rush hour car traffic will be worse than any reasonable worse case for buses.

The city needs to get more people cycling and on buses to make better use of the limited space in the city. Current car space converting to other use will be the main target to help the goal.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Plus this dual cycle Lane, i thought people didn't want to cross over the bridge to cross back again ?

I.e people going home in the south quays won't bother going to the north quays if it's out of their way.

The support for the two-way is as clear as could be. 80% support two way -- little support for uncontinuous with-flow on both sides.

A lot of the commuter and other traffic is north across south, south across north, south to west, and north to west.

lucernarian

AngryLips wrote: »

Dublin Bus alone carried over 100m people last year

They weren't 100 million separate people obviously! 100 million passengers you mean.

Carawaystick

What sort of priority will cyclists coming from Heuston station/Johns rd to the North quay get?
What sort of priority will cyclists coming from Coyningham(sp?) rd/Phoenix park to the North Quay get?
What sort of priority will cyclists coming up the quay to Heuston get?

SummerSummit

lxflyer wrote: »

If the boardwalk had to be closed off (and how often does this happen?) then surely pedestrians can simply walk along the north side of the Quays as they do now - hardly a reason to dismiss the proposal surely?

It's not that hard to cross over the road.

Lots of people don't like walking on the boardwalk, too many junkies/scumbags and no escape route out of there.

monument

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

As well as changing the direction of traffic on those back streets which run beside the luas it will make it very difficult for people living in those areas to get around.

Arran Quay C, with 0 Cars was 1,189. This figure represents 66.7% of all households.
Inns Quay C, with 0 Cars was 824. This figure represents 70.5% of all households.
North City, with 0 Cars was 1,467. This figure represents 84.2% of all households.

KEY: Dark blue: ~50-80% households with zero cars | Light blue~30-50% households with zero cars | Light green: ~20-30% households with zero cars | Bright green: Less than 20% households with zero cars

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Then we need to take people that need to drive with disabilities, people too old to be getting on a bike, taxis, ambulances, gardai, couriers, maintenance workers with vans, trucks going to docks and so on. They only have 1 Lane now not 2 which will cause major delays even off peak

It's worth pointing out that cycle paths and electric bicycles enable older people to cycle, and many people with disabilities can use cycle paths in a number of ways: https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2012/12/06/who-else-benefits-from-the-dutch-cycling-infrastructure/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSGx3HSjKDo

Ambulances, the garda and taxis can use bus lanes or traffic lanes, and the emergency services can also use tram tracks where needed.

There's a very low level of loading on the streets affected and that loading can be done from other streets.

The vast bulk of trucks going to Dublin Port are not allowed on this route.

lucernarian wrote: »

They weren't 100 million separate people obviously! 100 million passengers you mean.

Passenger trips if you want to be exact!

Carawaystick wrote: »

What sort of priority will cyclists coming from Heuston station/Johns rd to the North quay get?
What sort of priority will cyclists coming from Coyningham(sp?) rd/Phoenix park to the North Quay get?
What sort of priority will cyclists coming up the quay to Heuston get?

Good questions and it's detail they should be working on now given one option was clearly more supported than others.

SummerSummit

They missed the most obvious option in all their planning. Just put a segregated cycle lane down beside the red luas line.

ezra_pound

SummerSummit wrote: »

They missed the most obvious option in all their planning. Just put a segregated cycle lane down beside the red luas line.

At present there isn't even enough room for pedestrians along many stretches of the red line. So no, not a realistic option for a quality service.

trellheim

This is silly. Just plain silly. I've posted in here before and people know my feelings as a cyclist . tl;dr - disconnected from reality.

monument

trellheim wrote: »

This is silly. Just plain silly. I've posted in here before and people know my feelings as a cyclist . tl;dr - disconnected from reality.

What exactly is this? Why is it silly? How is it disconnected from reality?

SummerSummit

monument wrote: »

Very good...

But in fairness, unlike the Vogons, the city council put the plans on the interweb..., or maybe UPC and Eircom have not reached west Dublin yet?

Also covered in national and local newspapers, online media etc.

The plans are painful to load. Just put them on a normal pdf. http://www.cycledublin.ie/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Section-A-Option-3-Bus-Croppy-Acre.pdf <--WTF

lucernarian

trellheim wrote: »

This is silly. Just plain silly. I've posted in here before and people know my feelings as a cyclist . tl;dr - disconnected from reality.

What part of this is silly in particular?....

Monument wrote:

It's worth pointing out that cycle paths and electric bicycles enable older people to cycle, and any people with disabilitiescan use cycle paths in a number of ways:

This is a sensitive subject for me but that couldn't possibly benefit *every* disabled person. Anything that gets future cyclists off footpaths will help my blind friends, I suppose... Sadly the guide dogs haven't been taught to pull bikes yet:pac:

monument

lucernarian wrote: »

What part of this is silly in particular?....

This is a sensitive subject for me but that couldn't possibly benefit *every* disabled person. Anything that gets future cyclists off footpaths will help my blind friends, I suppose... Sadly the guide dogs haven't been taught to pull bikes yet:pac:

Sorry, that was a typo, it should have read: "many people with disabilities can..." -- missed the m key!

Idbatterim

could they not get rid of the footpath on the river side of both quays? when you need to cross to the other side of the liffey, you simply walk to the next bridge on the non river side and cross over...

Aard

The riverside walk is unique in Dublin. People will walk along it anyway. Might as well formalise it.

dubscottie

Seen the artists impressions of this.. Say someone was to have an incident mid quays and the nearest Ambulance was at/near Heuston how would it get to me? Down the cycle lanes?

Idiotic idea that needs to be knocked on the head ASAP.

I am all for anything that keeps cyclists away from me while walking or off the road while on a motorbike but this is stupid.

SummerSummit

Do a switch. Build a boardwalk all the way to Hueston and put the cycleway on it. Simple.

The current proposal will never work. Not enough space for buses to overtake each other. What happens when a granny fumbles her change at a stop = the entire bus network coming in from the West grinds to a halt.

monument

dubscottie wrote: »

Seen the artists impressions of this.. Say someone was to have an incident mid quays and the nearest Ambulance was at/near Heuston how would it get to me? Down the cycle lanes?

It goes down the bus / tram route and crosses over to the quays.

dubscottie wrote: »

Idiotic idea that needs to be knocked on the head ASAP.

I am all for anything that keeps cyclists away from me while walking or off the road while on a motorbike but this is stupid.

It's actually a very detailed, long thought about plan.

SummerSummit wrote: »

Do a switch. Build a boardwalk all the way to Hueston and put the cycleway on it. Simple.

there's good reasons why that was not chosen by most people at public consultation -- it would involve some very narrow cycle paths and shared areas at bridge pinch points which would mix walking and cycling on footpaths at junctions -- which would mean more people cycling would just not just the route and keep to the narrowed bus lane.

The whole concept of boardwalks is also expensive to build and maintain for questionable added value.

SummerSummit wrote: »

The current proposal will never work. Not enough space for buses to overtake each other. What happens when a granny fumbles her change at a stop = the entire bus network coming in from the West grinds to a halt.

Dublin Bus think it can be made to work.

And there is enough space for buses to overtake each other where it matter. The only bus stop along the detour section will have bus stop bays with bus-only pass room.

It's more space for buses protected from turning motorists than there is along the quays at present.

hmmm

monument wrote: »

It's more space for buses protected from turning motorists than there is along the quays at present.

You don't need a degree in planning to know this is not going to work, you need a degree in the bleedin' obvious - a long line of buses along a small street, all turning 90 degrees right onto a main traffic artery and then turning 90 degrees left again almost immediately onto another main traffic artery, through two sets of traffic lights that have to be perfectly synchronised. What a complete joke.

Idbatterim

Is there only one short area of the quays that it becomes so narrow as to send the buses down this proposed detour? If so, again, why not simply remove the quay side footpath from that single section? or put a boardwalk in its place...

I was just thinking the other day, when the luas was being built, could they not have put a walk and or cycleway down the luas green line?

LXFlyer

monument wrote: »

Dublin Bus think it can be made to work.

When did Dublin Bus say this and where can we read exactly what they said?

Pete_Cavan

Idbatterim wrote: »

Is there only one short area of the quays that it becomes so narrow as to send the buses down this proposed detour? If so, again, why not simply remove the quay side footpath from that single section? or put a boardwalk in its place...

There simply isnt space to have two cycle lanes, a bus lane and a general traffic lane on this stretch; https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.346342,-6.278854,3a,75y,108.32h,63.54t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sHNvqpz4dsAVrK-N1c-FR9A!2e0?hl=en-GB

elric

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

There simply isnt space to have two cycle lanes, a bus lane and a general traffic lane on this stretch;

The proposed options only have a two-way cycle lane and general traffic lane on that stretch. Buses would be routed alongside the Luas line on Benburb street as far as Smithfield Luas station and then down Phoenix Street North and Hammond Lane to Church Street and onto Inns Quay.

Pete_Cavan

elric wrote: »

The proposed options only have a two-way cycle lane and general traffic lane on that stretch. Buses would be routed alongside the Luas line on Benburb street as far as Smithfield Luas station and then down Phoenix Street North and Hammond Lane to Church Street and onto Inns Quay.

I am fully aware of that. I was responding to a poster who seemed to be asking if removing the footpath along the river where buses would be rerouted away from would create enough space for the cycle lanes, bus lane and general traffic lane.

Idbatterim

at off peak times, why would the buses bother using the diverted bus lane? Surely they could just use the general traffic lane? the only purpose of a bus lane, is if it is going to be quicker than the general traffic lane...

liamog

Idbatterim wrote: »

at off peak times, why would the buses bother using the diverted bus lane? Surely they could just use the general traffic lane? the only purpose of a bus lane, is if it is going to be quicker than the general traffic lane...

That gets confusing for passengers, sometimes the bus goes one way, sometimes the other

ezra_pound

Idbatterim wrote: »

at off peak times, why would the buses bother using the diverted bus lane? Surely they could just use the general traffic lane? the only purpose of a bus lane, is if it is going to be quicker than the general traffic lane...

Except for all those pesky bus stops with pesky passengers on the pesky route. It's a public bus service not whacky races.