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Target Practice

Dubgal72

Hi boardsies, Ososlo (blame her) pointed me in the direction of Training Logs and suggested that I might like to add one. So here I am.

You can probably guess from the log title that I am shooting for some targets. You might also guess from my user name that I am female, with affiliations to Dublin and am aged 32. I am also not a mathematician.

Back in the 80s my 'previous life', I ran a lot for a teenager. Skip a few decades and I am again running a lot. The interim, not so much. My twenties I spent running away from running, my thirties were spent running back to running, away from running...and mostly drawing to a standstill.

In many ways, I feel like a dinosaur or like I have entered a different century in my reincarnation as a runner (ok, actually I have. Push comes to shove I have entered a new millennium...).
I only found out what a Garmin is this last August, I have no idea what VO2 max is, my HR Max is uncharted territory and I am still sketchy re aerobic and anaerobic fitness details.......
I am going to relearn how to run 'by feel/effort' (actually that's going well, slowly but well) so won't invest in a gps watch just yet. I will get a HRM and definitely buy a stopwatch. The other details I hope to fill in via you guys.

I picked up my asics last Jan and decided (cue eyeball roll) to....run the marathon. As a bucket list thing. So yeah.

I'm glad I did, me and running are back together (*violins*).

And of course the marathon bit me. In the bum and badly. 23 minute positive split anybody?! But along the way I hope I have banked some endurance and have definitely dipped my toe into the beginnings of some quality session work.

For 2015 my targets are:

5k sub 20 mins (Current 21:38)
10k as near to 40 mins as I can (None official)
10 miles as far below 75 as I can (Current 78:04)
HM 1:35. (Current 1:41:08)

Would also like a crack at the track, 800m, 1500m and 3000m for old time's sake.

All advice and suggestions very welcome, thanks in advance. Nagging 'have you done your core exercises this week??' especially welcome!

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libelula

Inspirational report as always Dubgal, very well done on such a mingin' day!

adrian522

Well done, good running by the sounds of things. I don't think you can judge races in conditions like yesterdays based solely on time and it sounds like you really dug deep when required in the second half of the race.

That's a great finishing position anyway so hope you are suitable happy with that. See you on the 20th anyway I think.

Runchick

Super running DG you're so good at the pain stuff, I wimp out much too easily!! Well done

Firedance

Well done A, Adrian is right in those conditions all bets are off, you stuck with it when others would throw in the towel. Another great report

spaceylou

Great report DG - conditions were pretty awful yesterday so well done! Looking forward to hearing the final time.

Dubgal72

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Oops, didn't mean to give you a fright . I blame the caffeine :rolleyes: Great report, as usual. Nice plan for the summer - what distance(s) will you do in the Masters ? See you in Dunshaughlin anyway, looks like there will be a large boards contingent.

Haha sure you weren't drinking red bull?!

Thanks BG, it was a great lift really and perfectly timed

1500 in the masters and maybe 3000 if the timing is right. See you in dunshaughlin

libelula wrote: »

Inspirational report as always Dubgal, very well done on such a mingin' day!

Thanks libelula, it was pretty miserable wasn't it. Means it can only get better, right?!

adrian522 wrote: »

Well done, good running by the sounds of things. I don't think you can judge races in conditions like yesterdays based solely on time and it sounds like you really dug deep when required in the second half of the race.

That's a great finishing position anyway so hope you are suitable happy with that. See you on the 20th anyway I think.

Thanks Adrian, yes, overall, now the time and position has been confirmed, I am very pleasantly surprised.

Runchick wrote: »

Super running DG you're so good at the pain stuff, I wimp out much too easily!! Well done

Thanks Runchick, don't know about *good* at it but it definitely gets better with practice. Gawd what do we sound like?!

Firedance wrote: »

Well done A, Adrian is right in those conditions all bets are off, you stuck with it when others would throw in the towel. Another great report

Thanks FD, yeah definitely chuffed with the position!

spaceylou wrote: »

Great report DG - conditions were pretty awful yesterday so well done! Looking forward to hearing the final time.

Thanks spaceylou, 42:24 final time and #40 (#39 actually cos the she seems to have slipped into the official results :rolleyes: ) so very very happy (and still a bit shocked tbh). Haven't got the 5k split, the search engine seems to be a bit of a joke

annapr

Sounds like a tough run yesterday, DG, really well done... 39th is great placing... you'll get the sub-40 on a better day!

Dubgal72

Thanks Anna, I'll be happy to get a sub 40 by the Lakes in August. Hope you're still buzzing

menoscemo

A critical observation if you don't mind!!

It appears that your shorter times (1500, mile, 3k, 5k) are much stronger than your recent 5 mile and 10k times. Do you think that comes solely down to bad pacing in the races, or do you think there is a lack of endurance/speed endurance coming into play?
If the latter, do you or your coach any plans to rectify this? I reckon that slightly more overall mileage (with perhaps less emphasis on speedwork) and a longer long run would definitely help.

What do you think?

Dubgal72

Not at all meno, in fact you're absolutely spot on

It's a combination of a few things; bad/inexperienced pacing for sure which includes road racing experience. I'm also only entering my second cycle of structured training round about now so I still have a long term endurance base to consolidate. I am also first and foremost a track and xc runner, my first forays into both (the senior xc and 1500 track) in the last six months felt simply like coming home

The plan is to piggy back on our 3h marathoners training soon but jump into xc season in sept. Prior to that I have an 8 week block ahead in prep for the national masters 1500. I have a bit of residual speed it appears from the olden days and I want to capitalize on that before I hit the next age cat

The marathon training and xc season this year will bring my endurance on a lot I think. Thanks for the input meno, always welcome!

yaboya1

Dubgal72 wrote: »

The plan is to

Leave everybody hanging until your next post? :P

Edit: You corrected it before I posted :pac:

Dubgal72

yaboya1 wrote: »

Leave everybody hanging until your next post? :P

Hehe yup

menoscemo

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Not at all meno, in fact you're absolutely spot on
It's a combination of a few things; bad/inexperienced pacing for sure which includes road racing experience. I'm also only entering my second cycle of structured training round about now so I still have a long term endurance base to consolidate. I am also first and foremost a track and xc runner, my first forays into both (the senior xc and 1500 track) in the last six months felt simply like coming home
The plan is to piggy back on our 3h marathoners training soon but jump into xc season in sept. Prior to that I have an 8 week block ahead in prep for the national masters 1500. I have a bit of residual speed it appears from the olden days and I want to capitalize on that before I hit the next age cat
The marathon training and xc season this year will bring my endurance on a lot I think. Thanks for the input meno, always welcome!

Cool, it's good to have a plan!!
A little bit of Marathon training will definitely help.

I was looking at the results there and based on her 5 mile time from the other night, I reckon Emilia was at least 70-80 seconds down on what she would have been in say Dunshaughlin, so you might just be there before the end of June if all goes well!!

aquinn

The only way to fix pacing surely is a Garmin ðŸ˜†

Dubgal72

menoscemo wrote: »

Cool, it's good to have a plan!!
A little bit of Marathon training will definitely help.

I was looking at the results there and based on her 5 mile time from the other night, I reckon Emilia was at least 70-80 seconds down on what she would have been in say Dunshaughlin, so you might just be there before the end of June if all goes well!!

It's a consolation but unfortunately Dunshaughlin will get in the way of the next training block (10 day cycle of two x track sessions of 400s and 200s; park session of 800s, 10 mile run + occasional 800 TT and 5k parkrun 'over-and-under' sharpeners). So my next realistic shot at 10k will probably be the Lakes in August I think. I'm not that worried, I am seriously excited about seeing how low I can go in the 1500

And then I am really excited about lots of lsr's when I piggy back. It's all actually really great when I put it like that

aquinn wrote: »

The only way to fix pacing surely is a Garmin ðŸ˜†

I'm sorry, did somebody say something??!

Notwork Error

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Not at all meno, in fact you're absolutely spot on
It's a combination of a few things; bad/inexperienced pacing for sure which includes road racing experience. I'm also only entering my second cycle of structured training round about now so I still have a long term endurance base to consolidate. I am also first and foremost a track and xc runner, my first forays into both (the senior xc and 1500 track) in the last six months felt simply like coming home
The plan is to piggy back on our 3h marathoners training soon but jump into xc season in sept. Prior to that I have an 8 week block ahead in prep for the national masters 1500. I have a bit of residual speed it appears from the olden days and I want to capitalize on that before I hit the next age cat
The marathon training and xc season this year will bring my endurance on a lot I think. Thanks for the input meno, always welcome!

Do you think it's a good idea to jump in with the 3hr marathon runner group if you don't have the endurance base built up? I'm not taking a dig here DG but you come across as a middle distance biased runner to me which is something calculators never take into account and why I never use them. There seems to be a belief that calculators give your potential over a certain distance if you do the training required which is completely false imo as people will have biases towards certain distances. Take Hicham El Gerrouj for instance, a 3:43 miler which would have his 10k equivalent at 26 flatish for 10k but with all the 10k specific training in the world, he would probably struggle to come within a minute of that.

Now, I'm not saying a sub-3 marathon is beyond you by any means and maybe the marathon might turn out to be your strongest event when you get the miles in but do you not think that training with the 3 hour group right now might be just above your current ability for that distance as there is a fade in endurance from 5k up which I imagine would fade more as you arrive at the marathon distance? What is your thinking behind going with the 3hr group?

Personally, I think you would be better served in going with a slower group as it would be more in line with your current bias and if you feel like it over time, maybe then move up to the faster group. What do you think?

Dubgal72

Notwork Error wrote: »

Do you think it's a good idea to jump in with the 3hr marathon runner group if you don't have the endurance base built up? I'm not taking a dig here DG but you come across as a middle distance biased runner to me which is something calculators never take into account and why I never use them. There seems to be a belief that calculators give your potential over a certain distance if you do the training required which is completely false imo as people will have biases towards certain distances. Take Hicham El Gerrouj for instance, a 3:43 miler which would have his 10k equivalent at 26 flatish for 10k but with all the 10k specific training in the world, he would probably struggle to come within a minute of that.

Now, I'm not saying a sub-3 marathon is beyond you by any means and maybe the marathon might turn out to be your strongest event when you get the miles in but do you not think that training with the 3 hour group right now might be just above your current ability for that distance as there is a fade in endurance from 5k up which I imagine would fade more as you arrive at the marathon distance? What is your thinking behind going with the 3hr group?

Personally, I think you would be better served in going with a slower group as it would be more in line with your current bias and if you feel like it over time, maybe then move up to the faster group. What do you think?

Yeah sorry, I didn't explain that properly. Not for full training cycle, for 70% of the lsr's etc. I'll give full details when I have them nearer the time but it will be as I said, a piggy back. Sorry, sometimes I assume *everyone* knows what I mean by my vague statements

Edit: the madness of bedtime is over so just getting a chance to read your advice properly

It relates to the last bit really, it's not my thinking at all; it's coachy's and the club captain who have recommended I do this and as I said, it won't be the programme in its entirety. It's also not as crazy as it seems: our levels are converging all the time and by August/September the gap will have narrowed again (all going to plan

). That's not to say I would target a 3h marathon this October but a fair bit of the training will be achievable from August onwards. I'm in good hands with coachy and CC, they are real advocates of quality over quantity and I trust them completely.

Dubgal72

log report w/b 1 June

Mon 1
VHI WMM 2015 see race report 42:24, 39th o/a
T: 10 or thereabouts

Tue 2
Rest

Wed 3
Unscheduled rest. Due to one thing and another (sprog #1's birthday the main one

), my planned 10k easy run got pushed back until it got to the stage where going for a run and the multitude of things still to do at the end of a day meant a possible midnight bedtime....again. Tbh, I have slipped back into old bad habits lately re bedtime and am pretty wrecked. As we know,that will come back to bite me health-wise so sleep won. I feel quite virtuous as that gremlin was really whispering on my shoulder 'go on, run, you know you want to....' :eek:

Some ad hoc core and strengthening done over these two days

Thur 4
Double day:
AM: Didn't want to go into this evening's session without some running in my legs so popped out this morning for a 20min easy run around the block.

PM: club session. Gorgeous evening and a huge turnout, possibly 40, the most I've ever seen anyway.
Jogged 3 miles w/u to the park and included a couple of longer strides towards the end plus .5 mile of drills and strides.
Speed endurance: 6x800m @5k pace (ie 3.07 or thereabouts) with 400 cont jog recovery on gently undulating tarmac'd path. This is the first session of my 1500-specific training

The first came in slightly too fast at 3:00, the second settled down at 3.05. I turned the watch off after these two for a few reasons:
Firstly I was running against the tide of traffic so was often running wide.
Secondly, the path was full of other runners, walkers, kids...and dogs... So a fair bit of weaving was involved.
Thirdly, I had a latch on the cadence and effort and as I was doing these on my own, I couldn't be fecked racing the watch, especially after the race on Monday so gauged them by effort.
And I emptied the tank so am happy with how they went. I have the nice, drained exhausted feeling you get after a hard session

I really don't think I had underestimated how hard Ososlo's 5k session last week was but I am now completely, totally and utterly in awe. I was doing 5k pace reps tonight but HALF her distance with MORE recovery and only three miles total compared to her four!!!! .... :eek: I found this a tough tough session, my legs were jellofied by the fifth rep...fair fecks woman!!

1 mile c/d and thorough enough stretching. Think a glass of red and an Epsom salts bath are on the doctor's orders list too

T: 9 or thereabouts

HelenAnne

Really well done in the Mini Marathon. What's your club top like? Just wondering if I spotted you at all this time. I was 15 places behind you, so we must have been in and around each other at some point?

Dubgal72

HelenAnne wrote: »

Really well done in the Mini Marathon. What's your club top like? Just wondering if I spotted you at all this time. I was 15 places behind you, so we must have been in and around each other at some point?

Well done yourself, great time too, especially the day that was in it! How did you find it? I was wearing the local branch orange one but it gets a bit confusing because when we represent Sli Cualann outside Wicklow officially (county championships etc) we wear a navy one with an orange crest

We must gave been up in the same pen at the start!

HelenAnne

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Well done yourself, great time too, especially the day that was in it! How did you find it? I was wearing the local branch orange one but it gets a bit confusing because when we represent Sli Cualann outside Wicklow officially (county championships etc) we wear a navy one with an orange crest
We must gave been up in the same pen at the start!

I'd say we were! I'm directly under the middle zero in this one, wearing a hairband:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/in-pictures-women-s-mini-marathon-2015-1.2233459

in-pictures-women-s-mini-marathon-2015-1.2233459

I really enjoyed it! There were so many bits where I was thinking 'I feel WAY better than I did here last year!'

I panicked a bit in the first k as people were going past me, but I looked at my watch and said, 'No, this is an ok pace' and just concentrated on running my own race. I caught some of those who passed me in later miles anyway. I felt I dug in up Nutley Lane and up to the turn around, and kept thinking of using my core (pulling up my belt buckle as our Pilates teacher says :-)) and my arms into the wind, and I felt pretty good the whole way. In the last k I could see my club mate who ran 41.xx in the Samsung ahead of me (I hadn't expected to be anywhere near her) -- and then the band started playing 'Beat It' - when they sang 'No one likes to be defeated ...' I took that to heart and tried to catch her. I didn't, but there was only 23 seconds in it in the end, so I was delighted with that. I'd wanted sub 44 and top 70, so was DELIGHTED with 43.08 and 55th.

My previous 10k PB was from July 2013, so it was about time I started improving again!

You must be delighted as well -- top 40!

Dubgal72

HelenAnne wrote: »

I'd say we were! I'm directly under the middle zero in this one, wearing a hairband:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/in-pictures-women-s-mini-marathon-2015-1.2233459

I really enjoyed it! There were so many bits where I was thinking 'I feel WAY better than I did here last year!'

I panicked a bit in the first k as people were going past me, but I looked at my watch and said, 'No, this is an ok pace' and just concentrated on running my own race. I caught some of those who passed me in later miles anyway. I felt I dug in up Nutley Lane and up to the turn around, and kept thinking of using my core (pulling up my belt buckle as our Pilates teacher says :-)) and my arms into the wind, and I felt pretty good the whole way. In the last k I could see my club mate who ran 41.xx in the Samsung ahead of me (I hadn't expected to be anywhere near her) -- and then the band started playing 'Beat It' - when they sang 'No one likes to be defeated ...' I took that to heart and tried to catch her. I didn't, but there was only 23 seconds in it in the end, so I was delighted with that. I'd wanted sub 44 and top 70, so was DELIGHTED with 43.08 and 55th.

My previous 10k PB was from July 2013, so it was about time I started improving again!

You must be delighted as well -- top 40!

A PB on that day is fabulous running so well done again, you are on fire! Sounds like you had a great run, especially digging in on Nutley and maintaining it after. I did that too and paid the price

The band was great but I remember those bloody clapper things becoming more and more annoying after we went through donnybrook and onwards. It was definitely related to my fatigue :eek:
You nailed both your targets!

Ps I was over on the far side, I can see my clubmate but I think I was just behind her.

ThebitterLemon

HelenAnne wrote: »

I'd say we were! I'm directly under the middle zero in this one, wearing a hairband:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/in-pictures-women-s-mini-marathon-2015-1.2233459

My auld eye sight is poor but either you've a lot of hair or you're carrying a pot on your head

TbL

HelenAnne

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

HelenAnne wrote: »

I'd say we were! I'm directly under the middle zero in this one, wearing a hairband:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/in-pictures-women-s-mini-marathon-2015-1.2233459

My auld eye sight is poor but either you've a lot of hair or you're carrying a pot on your head

TbL

That's not my enormous Amy Winehouse style hair, I think it's the head of the girl behind me. I'd be impressed if I could run with that amount of hair!

BeepBeep67

HelenAnne wrote: »

I'd say we were! I'm directly under the middle zero in this one, wearing a hairband:

You looking fine

ThebitterLemon

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

You looking fine

Your hair replacement treatment went better than you expected D

TbL

Dubgal72

Right *dusts off cobwebs* before I forget.....

Fri 5
Rest, sort of scheduled, can't remember what happened

Sat 6
45 mins easy run. Fecking wind. Also a bit Meh, Thursday's session still in legs. Cross that I didn't make time to jog it out on Friday.

Sun 7
Very early (for me...) 7:30am run (*polishes halo*), some on grass
Lsr of 80 minutes or so, about 9.5 miles...or so. Just went out and ran around a roughly pre-measured route. Lovely run, lovely morning.

Total for week: maybe around 34/35 miles...according to the schedule for 1500-specific training, easy days (and some lsr's) are done by time on feet. Some guessing going on

Breakdown: (4 days' running)
1 race
1 double day incl session
1 lsr
1 easy/recovery day

Core and s/c: getting better

W/b 8 June

Mon 8 June

PM: 45 minutes easy (faster end of easy range). Felt quite good on this and had to consciously slow the pace down in parts. Concentrated on keeping good form etc.

Tue 9 June

AM: session on Tarmac in park
The next few weeks are going to see a rotation of:
#1 6x800m with 2.5 min rec - speed endurance purpose, recovery will be shortened :eek:
#2 8x400 with comfortable recovery of 400 cont jog or as needed - purpose speed
#3,8x200m, 200 rec
(Using JD/vdot from last 1500 race, targets are 3 mins for 800, 82 for 400s and 38 for 200s)
#4 And lsr of 8-10 miles
These key sessions will be done over a 10 day cycle. Today was #2, 400s.

I had reassured coachy that training mainly on my own was going to be okay for the next eight weeks but being honest, it is a little bit less ok than I thought it would be. Mentally, having done only two reps and having six ahead - on your own - is not exactly easy. But the feeling that you get as you go through the reps more than makes up for any mental anxiety or anticipation prior to the session

This was a hard session however I don't know if it's because speed is where my strength is ATM or what but I didn't have to use the wand in this session. Yes, I dug deep and emptied the tank on the last two reps but focusing on staying relaxed was enough for this session.
Coachy did however gently tell me off for the last two (76) with a caution about injury risk...

We'll reassess paces after the graded 1500 in Santry on Wednesday week.

T: 20 mins w/u, long strides; 6-7 drills, 5xshorter and faster strides; 8x400 with 400 cont jog rec and 1.25mi w/d
7.5mi

82, 80/81, 80/81, 77, 79, 78/79, (first 6.xx) 76.5, 76 (caveat hand-timed

)

Bungy Girl

You so fast

What's the target for the 1500 ?

Dubgal72

Bungy Girl wrote: »

You so fast

What's the target for the 1500 ?

Hehe thanks. Coachy just has me down to break 5:10. I had suggested something a bit more ambitious but he's right, baby steps

Dubgal72

Wed 10

Recovery run 35+ mins. Bleh...did exactly what it was meant to, nothing else. No love for this one

Had a real glyco tremble after the run too, couldn't get carbs into me quick enough.

Thur 11

Very easy jogging on grass with the Fit4Life group, 40 minutes or so. Lovely evening. Cycled there and back (6 miles round trip).
Interval training (I'm putting it down to that) really makes you hungry! Despite yesterday and today being easy days, I've been really hungry approaching meal times. I couldn't wait to get home for some roast chicken.

I was told on Sunday by a friend I haven't seen in a few months that I have the 'runner's lean look' she said making squashing motions on her cheeks. Let's face it she was really saying 'you look wrecked woman' :rolleyes: A running friend, also someone I haven't seen in a while, told me that I've lost weight so it must be true what is said about interval training: it burns fuel

Good to know because I certainly haven't been watching what I eat (in a restrictive sense) and I wondered if the lack of high mileage lately might encourage a pound or two gain now and then.

Fri 12

Track session: 8x200m, 200 rec. Target 38 secs

I had butterflies in my tummy for this one: the first real speed session in decades. Coachy wanted to be there for it but the track wasn't available for the time he was. Having him monitor and time the session would have been good but ya gotta work with what ya got....

A spanner was nearly thrown in the works when I got there at 10am sharp to be told that the track was booked for what looked like a HIIT fitness group or something like that. I wheedled a bit - nicely, I told them it was only 200s and I wouldn't be long - and got to use the inside lane out of the way. Not ideal for 200s, lane 3 or 4 would have been better but....

I had already done the jogging bit so made my way down to the track for long strides, 8 drills and 4-5 shorter, snappy strides of 70m or so followed by short gentle stretches on my hip which felt a tiny bit tight. Not out of bratiness or anything but I decided to take my time with my warm up. So I did and it was lovely.

The first one was waaaay too fast (33.7), but that was ok, all I had to do was slow down...the next two were 34.xx, the next three 35.xx and the last two I thought feck it, put the boot in for 34.5 and 34.6.
It was tough enough, especially 6-8 but throughout I focused on staying strong, controlled and relaxed. I settled into a pattern (right or wrong, haven't a clue) of starting out snappy, easing off after 50m, revving up again into the straight, cruising the middle bit of the straight and for the last three revving up again the last 30m.
Coachy hasn't given out to me....yet

Finished with gentle jogging and plenty of stretching, including the stand up Myrtl moves. These are amazing after a hard session, I can't recommend them enough. They really ease out the legs and nearly reinvigorate them. Thanks Ososlo for discovering them

I gave myself a little pep talk while doing these. I felt really good after having had the time to warm up properly, no rushing, and also warm down. We're all guilty of leaving out the ancillary bits but if I want to do myself justice in the nationals, this has to be an integral part of training, not an optional add-on...including core and strength and conditioning....I've been telling the Novices that marathon training is a jigsaw puzzle and running is only a piece of it - a significant piece mind you - so time to pull up my socks and reinstate that core, mobility and S/C training firmly back on the schedule.

I packed a very generous handful of mixed nuts and raisins for straight after warm down, hopefully that will help stave off the ITMs (Interval Training Munchies

).

1|33.7
2|34.9
3|34.xx
4|35.xx
5|35.xx
6|35.xx
7|34.5
8|34.6

T: 6 or thereabouts