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So when will there be a referendum on criminalizing meat eating?

LoTR

My dear Irish friends,

Seeing as you like referendums so much, and like "setting things right," I am just wondering when you will have a Yes/No referendum on whether brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings is something the Irish people will continue to support and strongly engage with, or stand up against?

Will the Irish be the first people in the world to criminalize the brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings (and purchasing such things)....or does the Irish people's definition of mercy not extend to other sentient beings?

When will this referendum be held? And what would you vote for? Will people one day gather with flags in Dublin Castle to celebrate the fall of brutality, depravity, torture, and the horrific killings of other sentient beings? Will one day the Irish people set an example for the world? Or will nothing ever convince you to open up your heart to those that cannot speak for themselves?

"Earthlings" with Joaquin Phoenix is a fantastic documentary about this issue.

EDIT: Since I can post things now, this video says more than I can possibly ever explain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhBWDzkqEPY Please watch.

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blatantrereg

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

The planet would of course benefit from a reduction in the current meat /fish consumption levels. If we all ate vegetarian 2 to 3 days a week we would be better off.

Our current consumption levels are unnecessarily high, a measured reduction would be beneficial and would allow for better animal husbandry.

So, yes, we must all become vegetarians.....

..on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

If the study I referred to earlier in this thread is accurate, the main thing is for people to cut out red meat - or at least cut down on it. Thirty times the environmental impact of alternatives, vegetarian or not. Apparently a bigger contributor to global warming than cars.

LoTR

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

It's simple.

As a country we do not place the same value on animal life as human life.

I'm ok with that to be frank, as are the vast majority of Irish citizens. When that changes, come back to us.

That is in no ways the issue. One can value human life above all others, I do too. But valuing one thing more does not automatically mean you turn into a psychopath torturing and butchering all other life forms. Did I not get that memo or what?

I do think we should afford animals a better quality existence before we kill and eat them, in stark terms they should be comfortable before hitting my plate.

Humans are a species, dogs and cats (amongst others) are other distinct species, again I'm comfortable with elevating them above other animals on an emotional level due to the special relationship that we as humans have decided to cultivate with them.

Would you be ok with being slaughtered and served as someone's dinner...just as long as you were treated a little bit better before that were to happen. It's like throwing an aspirin at a cancer. I don't understand this argument at all.

Nature is cruel, we could spend hours listing the horrendous brutal nature of intra species and extra species relationships. We, as humans, prioritise our own comfort and survival.

You may be prioritizing your own comfort, but the environmental impact of that harms impoverished populations heavily.

I'm ok with that, I'm fine with controlling animal populations responsibly, happy to eat animals. No point pulling the punches, once we're all honest about it I can't see the problem I do think peope should be very aware of where the food comes from. I can't abide people who wince at the sight of raw meat, or meat on the bone or carcasses being slaughtered.

This might sound like "honesty" but I don't see how it improves anything for anyone. If something is horrible and revolting and wrong, if torturing and taking the lives of defenseless animals is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of how "honest" you are about it.

LoTR

kylith wrote: »

Our food animals die much, much less stressful deaths, and have much, much better lives than wild animals

That is an excellent point....if you have your head stuck deep in the ground, if you believe the Earth is flat, and if you have not clicked on a single one of the videos I have posted in the numerous posts in this thread.

LoTR

Latest News: Giant pig factory farm set to open in Antrim, Northern Ireland, will house more than 30,000 pigs in what will essentially be the biggest such farm in Ireland and the UK: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/uks-biggest-pig-farm-plan-for-co-antrim-sparks-residents-outrage-31271162.html

silverfeather

LoTR wrote: »

Latest News: Giant pig factory farm set to open in Antrim, Northern Ireland, will house more than 30,000 pigs in what will essentially be the biggest such farm in Ireland and the UK: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/uks-biggest-pig-farm-plan-for-co-antrim-sparks-residents-outrage-31271162.html

Things like this are why I don't eat meat. This is awful. The conditions sound appalling. This type of farming MUST be criminalized.

blatantrereg

Yeah factory farming is not exclusive to the USA. People seem to assume it is.

http://www.ciwf.ie/farminfo/farmfacts_pigs.html

TheGoldenAges

Been a vegetarian as of three months ago, really opens up a lot of dishes I wouldn't have fathomed to have even tried a few years ago.

awec

LoTR wrote: »

Would you be ok with being slaughtered and served as someone's dinner

I think this sentence sums up pretty well just how much nonsense you are spouting.

kylith

LoTR wrote: »

That is an excellent point....if you have your head stuck deep in the ground, if you believe the Earth is flat, and if you have not clicked on a single one of the videos I have posted in the numerous posts in this thread.

Rubbish. Wild animals die slowly of disease, of starvation because there is no food or because their teeth have worn down so far that they can't eat, or they are killed by predators. In many cases they are still alive when the predators start to eat them. The lives of the majority of animals on Irish farms would be paradise for wild animals; having enough to eat at all times, never suffering from illness, being safe from predators. Granted they are killed, but they are killed as quickly, stress free, and as painlessly as possible.

If you think that wild animals live in some kind of blissful utopia you're the one with your head in the sand. There is a reason they say "Nature, red in tooth and claw".

kylith

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Been a vegetarian as of three months ago, really opens up a lot of dishes I wouldn't have fathomed to have even tried a few years ago.

Eating meat doesn't mean you have to eat it all the time though. I had a meatless day yesterday, because I wanted to. I enjoy trying out all kinds of recipes, with and without meat.

ThinkProgress

LoTR wrote: »

That is in no ways the issue. One can value human life above all others, I do too. But valuing one thing more does not automatically mean you turn into a psychopath torturing and butchering all other life forms. Did I not get that memo or what?

I'd like to eat YOU!

Did you get the memo from the mayor of crazy town? He wants you to go sell crazy some place else... Something about us primative paddys not being ready for the veggie revolution!?

If you agree that humans are the priority over all others, then why try to deny us the food that we are biologically designed to eat?

Contrary to what you seem to believe, most people don't actually enjoy the process of butchering an animal for food.

But it's necessary for our optimal health and nutrition. And we enjoy the taste of the meat.

We have ZERO reasons to feel bad or ashamed about that.

Being lectured like little kids by some delusional yank, is not going turn everybody into veggie eating animal freedom fighters! lol

Many on here just seem to resent you. I actually admire your ludicrous level of commitment to this lost cause though - it's amusing and entertaining to watch!

silverfeather

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Been a vegetarian as of three months ago, really opens up a lot of dishes I wouldn't have fathomed to have even tried a few years ago.

People think it's less varied. Totally untrue.

Tony Beetroot

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Been a vegetarian as of three months ago, really opens up a lot of dishes I wouldn't have fathomed to have even tried a few years ago.

Do you still eat thin slices of ham?

silverfeather

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I'd like to eat YOU!

.

If the two of us are stranded on a desert Island with nothing to eat you had better hope I don't have a fork.

We have ZERO reasons to feel bad or ashamed about that.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-31271162.html

Then why are you here defending yourself?

This is not pasture farming or free range. This is torture. It's cowardly and it is all done because modern society DOES feel guilty. Why hide it all away in farms if your stomach is not too weak and squeamish to kill your own? Would people go to Tesco to slaughter their own pigs? Some perhaps but less. If you were not ashamed this factory farming would not be happening. It is the proof of your shame.

Meat eaters who care and honor the life of the animal I can deal with but your ignorance I will not put up with. You don't deserve to eat their flesh. They should not suffer for the likes of you. You dishonor them and their lives. You won't even bear witness to their pain. You just hide it away.

Ah yes you had better hope I don't have a fork.

silverfeather

Tony Beetroot wrote: »

Do you still eat thin slices of ham?

Good lord well spotted!

ThinkProgress

silverfeather wrote: »

If the two of us are stranded on a desert Island with nothing to eat you had better hope I don't have a fork.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-31271162.html

Then why are you here defending yourself?

This is not pasture farming or free range. This is torture. It's cowardly and it is all done because modern society DOES feel guilty. Why hide it all away in farms if your stomach is not too weak and squeamish to kill your own? Would people go to Tesco to slaughter their own pigs? Some perhaps but less. If you were not ashamed this factory farming would not be happening. It is the proof of your shame.

Meat eaters who care and honor the life of the animal I can deal with but your ignorance I will not put up with. You don't deserve to eat their flesh. They should not suffer for the likes of you. You dishonor them and their lives. You won't even bear witness to their pain. You just hide it away.

Ah yes you had better hope I don't have a fork.

You need to be a bit more careful when you read my posts. You see, when someone uses the word "we" it doesn't necessarily mean they're directly referring to themselves. It's a collective term!

I have no issues killing an animal and butchering it. I've killed animals in the past where necessary. I grew up in rural ireland surrounded by animals. I put my own dog down when it became sick when I was only a teen!

So please don't you start lecturing here too. You don't know me. You know next to nothing about me!

My point was that we eat meat in SPITE of the fact that we dislike butchering it.

Just because meat is essential doesn't mean we must become heartless monsters who revel in the slaughtering of animals.

I'm saying I CAN kill an animal - I don't take pleasure from it.

Ancient tribes had this very same mentality. There is a difference between being able to stomach something, and actually taking pleasure from it.

I take no pleasure from it. But I'm not naively sentimental about it either. I respect all animals. But we are meat eaters!

This is the reality of our existence. I don't live in some fairy tale world like some people.

And yes we do hide the slaughtering. For good reasons. Not because we are ashamed, but because killing an animal for food is an emotional process - all ancient tribes understood this.

Native Americans would honor the dead animal and have rituals. They would thank it for it's sacrifice. They would be very emotional ceremonies - but they also knew it was an essential thing to do!

We can't do any of that stuff now in 2015. It's just not practical. So we hide it. We keep the emotion of it away from people - but don't delude yourself into believing it's because of shame or guilt. That's just ignorance of your history!

It's particularly difficult for women to understand these kind of issues, because it's traditionally always been kept away from them because of their more sensitive nature.

Men are better at understanding and coping with these more harsh realities of the world we live in.

But just because it's harsh and at times ugly, doesn't mean it's unnatural.

And it also doesn't mean we become unfeeling barbarians because we do it. Quite the opposite actually!

Anyone who has ever killed an animal will tell you it has a profound affect on you. BUT NOT GUILT. (not if there's a purpose to the killing)

silverfeather

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Anyone who has ever killed an animal will tell you it has a profound affect on you. BUT NOT GUILT. (not if there's a purpose to the killing)

I would imagine so.

ThinkProgress

silverfeather wrote: »

I would imagine so.

Very insightful.

Thankfully you're not hunting for anything more than a parking space, the way you give up so easily!

silverfeather

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Very insightful.

Thankfully you're not hunting for anything more than a parking space, the way you give up so easily!

I don't drive thank you. I didn't give up the argument, I won. You are dismissed. If that seems arrogant it's just I have no respect for you.

ThinkProgress

silverfeather wrote: »

I don't drive thank you. I didn't give up the argument, I won. You are dismissed. If that seems arrogant it's just I have no respect for you.

Not arrogant, just delusional.

To win an argument, you have to actually make some coherent points - you had none!

You just misinterpreted my post and threw a few generalisations in the direction of a person you knew nothing about.

Respect? lol

I don't respect lazy debaters. Or people who use cliches and tired old rhetoric to help make their points.

I enjoy a challenge. You certainly do not challenge me!

At least the yank puts some effort into his/her responses!

Tony Beetroot

You got served Silverfeather, dang it.

silverfeather

Tony Beetroot wrote: »

You got served Silverfeather, dang it.

You smell of ham.

It's on my ignore list now.

brandnewaward

why don't we all meet up and discuss it over ribs and burgers?

Tony Beetroot

Can i bring a pound of ham and mustard?

Un Croissant

brandnewaward wrote: »

why don't we all meet up and discuss it over ribs and burgers?

Missed opportunity to say meat up.

silverfeather

I can't stand you people you fucjing disgust me.

Tony Beetroot

You seem trivially annoyed Silverfeather?

Un Croissant

silverfeather wrote: »

I can't stand you people you fucjing disgust me.

You people? I'm on your side!!

What is your side? I haven't read the thread.

Samaris

Ah, civil debate at its finest. Say I having snarked LotR earlier, but oh well. I dont agree with your comment about women finding killing animals/ understanding killing animals harder, Silverfeather; after you've gutted your first few hundred fish and spent a few days hunting animals out of the crops, you probably are pretty capable of dealing with the whole concept. That aside, yes, some cultures treated the necessary killing of animals with great reverence, and with the emotional distance between Bessie and dinner, its not really something we cope with anymore.

Having said that, I think we can mostly get behind ethical and decent treatment of animals. But that's a far cry from the whole idea of calling a (utterly irrelevent) referendum to ban eating meat altogether, as was the original pipe-dream notion of the thread.

traprunner

I haven't even had breakfast and I'm already salivating about my lunch reading this thread. Liver is on the menu!