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A Slow Journey to Faster Times

yaboya1

So I finally decided on Seville for my Spring Marathon. The date & costs suit me well and the race seems to be pretty well reviewed by anyone who's previously run it.

This is my first attempt at a training log so please go easy on me!

I've run three previous marathons (3:39, 3:35, 3:34). The aim in Seville is to finally go below 3:30. I've had various things go wrong on me in all of the above, so I think my target is pretty achievable. I haven't done any running since Chicago last month, so I plan to ease back into it gradually for the next month by doing a couple of short/medium runs during the week with a long one at the weekend. Then from the beginning of December I've decided to follow the 12 week 'Up to 55 miles per week' marathon schedule from the Advanced Marathoning book by Pfitzinger & Douglas.

My biggest problem in the past has been going too quickly on my long runs. There are 7 different paces in this plan. I have estimated what pace I should be running them at as follows:

MP runs: 8 min/mile
Long runs: 9 min/mile
Med-long runs: 8:45-9 min/mile
General aerobic runs: 9:30 min/mile
LT runs: 7:35 min/mile
Recovery runs: 12 min/mile
VO2 max intervals: 7 min/mile

If anyone has any comments/observations, I'd be delighted to hear them. Otherwise I'll be back as soon as I get back out on the road.

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yaboya1

kit3 wrote: »

Really interested in your theory on the driving - I did two such training sessions over the weekend - found my right leg was a bit wrecked after the first leg (Saturday) but I seem to be ok today after yesterday's leg ! Would you put that down to building muscle memory on the first leg ??

I'm not going to lie, I'm no expert on it.
You'd probably be better off consulting a coach who could give you a proper schedule for stuff like that (e.g. a driving instructor). I'm probably doing everything wrong or in the incorrect order, hence the poor race performances. Wouldn't want to similarly misguide anybody else.

kit3

yaboya1 wrote: »

I'm not going to lie, I'm no expert on it.
You'd probably be better off consulting a coach who could give you a proper schedule for stuff like that (e.g. a driving instructor). I'm probably doing everything wrong or in the incorrect order, hence the poor race performances. Wouldn't want to similarly misguide anybody else.

Thanks - was so bad on Sunday I thought I might need a rehabilitation programme but now I'm not so sure

Myles Splitz

I may be missing out on some sort of forum inside joke but what's the story with making particular references to another log here.

Seems a little uncalled for? (unless this is some sort of ongoing joke between you guys and the other poster)

yaboya1

Myles Splitz wrote: »

I may be missing out on some sort of forum inside joke but what's the story with making particular references to another log here.

Seems a little uncalled for? (unless this is some sort of ongoing joke between you guys and the other poster)

Hi,

I don't believe I made references to any other log? I'm jokingly mocking my own 'training' in the past week or so.
Maybe reading how pathetic it is will encourage me to get up off my ass and do some proper running.

Myles Splitz

yaboya1 wrote: »

Hi,

I don't believe I made references to any other log? I'm jokingly mocking my own 'training' in the past week or so.
Maybe reading how pathetic it is will encourage me to get up off my ass and do some proper running.

Must have been a coincidence that rehabilitation and 10 min Dublin bike were both brought up in both logs.

Sunday 17/05

10 Mins on a Dublin bike

Day 1 of my new rehab plan

Apologies I was reading another here and thought they sounded familiar so I thought it was a case of an on going joke between a few posters here.

yaboya1

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Must have been a coincidence that rehabilitation and 10 min Dublin bike were both brought up in both logs.

Apologies I was reading another here and thought they sounded familiar so I thought it was a case of an on going joke between the a few here.

Fair enough. Some logs can be alike sometimes. Tbh I don't read a lot of others any more, so may have missed that. I don't remember ever typing anything about rehab in this log since I started it more than 18 months ago though.

kit3

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Must have been a coincidence that rehabilitation and 10 min Dublin bike were both brought up in both logs.

Apologies I was reading another here and thought they sounded familiar so I thought it was a case of an on going joke between the a few here.

I don't think Yaboya mentioned a rehabilitation programme but I did. I picked up on his driving post for fun but the issue I mentioned was actually real - thought all day Sunday I might be headed for the physio - won't clog here with details but will be updating myself later

Myles Splitz

Sorry, still getting used to the nuances of this forum, initially it came across as making fun of someone or general banter.

As you said though some likes will be alike, there only so many different ways to train and things haven't changed all that much over the years.

Too used to reading between the lines

davedanon

kit3 wrote: »

I don't think Yaboya mentioned a rehabilitation programme but I did. I picked up on his driving post for fun but the issue I mentioned was actually real - thought all day Sunday I might be headed for the physio - won't clog here with details but will be updating myself later

A couple of years ago I had sciatica-type pain down the back of one leg (the left). On long car journeys it would get genuinely excruciating. I would be pushing myself up off the seat with the right leg so that my head was touching the roof, trying to stretch the left leg or find a comfortable position.

kit3

davedanon wrote: »

A couple of years ago I had sciatica-type pain down the back of one leg (the left). On long car journeys it would get genuinely excruciating. I would be pushing myself up off the seat with the right leg so that my head was touching the roof, trying to stretch the left leg or find a comfortable position.

Sounds similar - have also had a niggle in my glute on & off and an issue with my right arm for about 6 weeks - all the same side & possibly connected I'd say

wowzer

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Sorry, still getting used to the nuances of this forum, initially it came across as making fun of someone or general banter.

As you said though some likes will be alike, there only so many different ways to train and things haven't changed all that much over the years.

Too used to reading between the lines

You're not alone in your thinking on this one, when I first read yaboya's latest log update I thought he was having a pop at a couple of logs.

But if Yaboya says he didn't then I guess I have to believe that as I always thought of him as a stand up kind of guy.

yaboya1

wowzer wrote: »

You're not alone in your thinking on this one, when I first read yaboya's latest log update I thought he was having a pop at a couple of logs.

But if Yaboya says he didn't then I guess I have to believe that as I always thought of him as a stand up kind of guy.

Thanks for that

I thought taking the mick out of myself was ok, but it seems I may have been wrong. In future I'll bring my Garmin everywhere and post the link to avoid such confusion.

belcarra

wowzer wrote: »

I always thought of him as a stand up kind of guy.

Maybe if he'd just get movin' and stop standing he'd start improving again...

Jaysus, but there was a time way back when he used to be a decent runner!!:cool:
:P

dublin runner

Serious question

How do you think your running sabbatical impacts on your results? Do you see it as a need mental and physical break that helps you in the long run (restores motivation etc.)?

We are quite different when it comes to training. I am on on/on runner (to my detriment a lot of the time) and you are an on/off runner. When you are 'on' there is no doubt you train hard and smart. Without really knowing, I wonder is there a possible ideal compromise between these two contrasting approaches. It crossed my mind during a run that you possibly could benefit from just simply ticking over for a number of weeks after a marathon. Then again, I am not convinced!

Hope that makes sense.

yaboya1

dublin runner wrote: »

Serious question

How do you think your running sabbatical impacts on your results? Do you see it as a need mental and physical break that helps you in the long run (restores motivation etc.)?

Honestly? Probably not positively. I definitely don't think it 'helps' me. I'm just prone to going from flat out to zero after a marathon, because that's usually the ultimate goal and I'm a little bit aimless afterwards. Even in the case where I'm already signed up for something else (NYC) because it's so far away.

dublin runner wrote: »

We are quite different when it comes to training. I am on on/on runner (to my detriment a lot of the time) and you are an on/off runner. When you are 'on' there is no doubt you train hard and smart. Without really knowing, I wonder is there a possible ideal compromise between these two contrasting approaches. It crossed my mind during a run that you possibly could benefit from just simply ticking over for a number of weeks after a marathon. Then again, I am not convinced!

Hope that makes sense.

I would like to think there is a compromise and hope to see the results to match when I eventually cop on to doing things the right way. I definitely agree with the ticking over part. After I ran Seville last year, I was back running after 3/4 days and within 2 weeks was running pbs, continuing to do so all the way up to Berlin. In fact, the Dublin Marathon was the first time I failed to pb in a race......ever!

If you want the honest truth I don't think I've been anywhere near the shape I was in last summer since Berlin. I've slacked off in one department or the other, but feel like I'm getting away with it by running similar times or narrow pbs. My lifestyle is not an ideal one for a runner, but I've always been averse to making big sacrifices as it may then become a chore which I don't want. In saying that, I don't feel like I make any at the moment. Bar putting the miles in, I didn't forego anything in the run up to Hamburg, whereas even back as far as Dublin 2010 my diet was better and I gave up alcohol for the guts of two months. Whether that has made a big difference, I really don't know. I suppose I might have to try out a more professional approach to find out. We'll see. The 'beer' mile being my next race (with pints afterwards) probably doesn't help there

Regarding the total exodus from running recently, a lot of that has been down to a change in working hours and problems with transport etc.
It has just been really difficult to organise getting myself out the door for a few miles (believe it or not). However, everyone has issues like this in their day to day lives so it's not really a valid excuse. I had put today in the calendar as the one where I stopped messing around and got back out there. I'll be hitting the road sometime this evening. Haven't decided how far yet.

dublin runner

yaboya1 wrote: »

Honestly? Probably not positively. I definitely don't think it 'helps' me. I'm just prone to going from flat out to zero after a marathon, because that's usually the ultimate goal and I'm a little bit aimless afterwards. Even in the case where I'm already signed up for something else (NYC) because it's so far away.

I would like to think there is a compromise and hope to see the results to match when I eventually cop on to doing things the right way. I definitely agree with the ticking over part. After I ran Seville last year, I was back running after 3/4 days and within 2 weeks was running pbs, continuing to do so all the way up to Berlin. In fact, the Dublin Marathon was the first time I failed to pb in a race......ever!

If you want the honest truth I don't think I've been anywhere near the shape I was in last summer since Berlin. I've slacked off in one department or the other, but feel like I'm getting away with it by running similar times or narrow pbs. My lifestyle is not an ideal one for a runner, but I've always been averse to making big sacrifices as it may then become a chore which I don't want. In saying that, I don't feel like I make any at the moment. Bar putting the miles in, I didn't forego anything in the run up to Hamburg, whereas even back as far as Dublin 2010 my diet was better and I gave up alcohol for the guts of two months. Whether that has made a big difference, I really don't know. I suppose I might have to try out a more professional approach to find out. We'll see. The 'beer' mile being my next race (with pints afterwards) probably doesn't help there

Regarding the total exodus from running recently, a lot of that has been down to a change in working hours and problems with transport etc.
It has just been really difficult to organise getting myself out the door for a few miles (believe it or not). However, everyone has issues like this in their day to day lives so it's not really a valid excuse. I had put today in the calendar as the one where I stopped messing around and got back out there. I'll be hitting the road sometime this evening. Haven't decided how far yet.

I suppose it's all about balance. Very few of us achieve this as it's a very hard act to master. I guess experience helps us.

The thing is (which I am learning) is that running is a discipline of diminishing returns. I think after NYC you need to go back to basics in ways. I don't mean that in a bad way, it's what I am sort of doing now. If you want to improve at a certain distance training for that distance isn't always the optimal approach. Sometimes you a have tackle the distance from a new fresh angle. Like me, speed/leg turnover is your achilles heel. If the marathon is what you want to be 'best' at your have to seriously attack your shorter distances. If you look at most of the top runner there times line up, from 5k to marathon.

The great thing is that the glass is half full! Having never gone through a 5/10k training programme you will see massive gains. For you I would say huge even.

It's hard (and very very easy

) to fall into marathon training after marathon training. I think having more shape to your season will also keep the mind fresh and motivation even higher.

Something to think about.

P.S Don't even think about beating me next week.....hahaha!:pac:

yaboya1

Update: 59.38 miles in the last 10 days

Less than I would like, but have been forced to take some rest/recovery days through no fault of my own. Anyway good to be back on the horse. Most of these were 'easy' effort, but felt like far more of a struggle than they should have. Probably all psychological though, as the few miles I ran with FBOT01 felt much less difficult than the rest.

Tuesday 2nd June: 60 minutes Easy
Wednesday 3rd June A.M.: 40 minutes Easy
Wednesday 3rd June P.M.: 80 minutes Easy
Thursday 4th June A.M.: 50 minutes Easy
Thursday 4th June P.M.: 40 minutes Easy
Friday 5th June: 90 minutes Easy
Saturday 6th June: 45 minutes Easy
Wednesday 10th June: 80 minutes Easy

I'm hoping to get a few miles in after work tomorrow, before a warm-up on Saturday morning pacing at the St Anne's parkrun. After that it's the main event

annapr

so.... have you committed to a pacing time for St Anne's yet???

yaboya1

annapr wrote: »

so.... have you committed to a pacing time for St Anne's yet???

I'll give the people what they want

annapr

yaboya1 wrote: »

I'll give the people what they want

so coy! :cool:

FBOT01

yaboya1 wrote: »

I'll give the people what they want

And he will be digging out the old tri-colour T for the occasion.....if that doesn't get him all mojo'd up for the big event later in the day nothing will :pac::pac:

yaboya1

Saturday 13th June - 5k parkrun pacing
4.94k @ 4:35min/km average

I was given the 23 minute pacing job in St Annes this morning. Changed the watch to kms but forgot to change the auto-lap, so the splits themselves are in miles. Think I helped a couple of Raheny girls hit their target as they passed me in the last 100m. Came in around 22:45 (would have been closer to 23:00 only watch measured slightly short). I was also a bit paranoid about missing the starting gun by a few seconds.That's the warm up done and I got the beer mile equivalent of strides in last night (pints). Roll on 7:30

Splits:

Mile 1 - 7:23
Mile 2 - 7:23
Mile 3 - 7:23
0.11 - 0:30

yaboya1

Saturday 13th June (P.M.) - Boards Beer Mile (8:27 unofficial)

I'll post a full report tomorrow when I get a chance, but for the moment here's my Garmin link: https://connect.garmin.com/activity/804237854

Very happy with a 3+ minute pb

Itziger

yaboya1 wrote: »

Saturday 13th June (P.M.) - Boards Beer Mile (8:27 unofficial)

I'll post a full report tomorrow when I get a chance, but for the moment here's my Garmin link: https://connect.garmin.com/activity/804237854

Very happy with a 3+ minute pb

The timing/pace chart for this on Garmin is a thing of beauty. Those stops were sudden!

davedanon

Itziger wrote: »

The timing/pace chart for this on Garmin is a thing of beauty. Those stops were sudden!

Mine looks exactly the same, except the high bits aren't quite as high, and the low bits are a bit longer...

menoscemo

yaboya1 wrote: »

Saturday 13th June (P.M.) - Boards Beer Mile (8:27 unofficial)

I'll post a full report tomorrow when I get a chance, but for the moment here's my Garmin link: https://connect.garmin.com/activity/804237854

Very happy with a 3+ minute pb

That looks very like a 70 second last lap, you were moving at 4;30/mile pace for the most of it.
No wonder I had to turn on the after burners to stay ahead :eek:

yaboya1

Boards Beer Mile 2015 (8:27)

This would be my second Beer Mile. Last year was a bit of a shock to the system, having never experienced anything remotely similar and running on tired legs from a 19 mile LSR that morning. I knew I was way better prepared this year.

Pre-Race

My goal since crossing the finish line in 11:30 last year was to improve to at least a sub 10 this year (Why is this not on the round numbers thread btw?)
I put in two really solid training sessions though, so that by the time the race rolled around I was very confident of a sub 9 and hopeful of even better. I warmed up for the event with a few beers on Friday night, followed by a pacing gig at the St Anne's parkrun on Saturday morning. The preparation was almost parallel to an elite Olympian. I'd have no excuses.

The Race

I lined up at the start waiting for annapr and the timing crew to give us the go ahead. Having spent the previous twenty minutes laughing, joking and participating in general banter on the infield, the start line was eerily quiet. The pre-race nerves were kicking in. Novices & veterans alike frozen solid from fear of failure. Chivito even dropped his bottle on the ground, his hand muscles paralysed from the pressure of his own expectation after two afternoon pbs and a solid block of training. Then we got a '3-2-1-Go!' and the silence was broken with the sound of 25 beers being cracked open simultaneously. The 2015 National Championship was under way.

Beer 1: 0:25 I've just knocked back a beer in 25 seconds and I'm not even in the top 20. Wtf? However I didn't panic. This is a mile, not a 400m or even a 200m as recent early leaders have discovered to their demise. I knew I'd be overtaking many by the end and stuck to my original strategy.

Run 1: 1:29 I remember passing meno (as he has mentioned), but not a lot else. I was totally focused on burping and expelling as much gas as possible before the lap was over. I was probably a bit too conservative and possibly could have gone a little faster, but was always reminding myself of how fine the line is between too slow and a pukefest.

Beer 2: 0:38 Slower than the first, but that was to be expected. I made a lot of places in this transition as the beer 200m/400m specialists started to struggle. This is where the marathon training and specific beer mile sessions start to kick in. I was happy to see it had been all worthwhile. Meno still got away ahead of me though.

Run 2: 1:24 A little quicker than the first lap and passed meno once again. The field was starting to sort itself out now and positions wouldn't change an awful lot around me from here on in. I knew I'd be battling meno all the way to the line just like last year.

Beer 3: 0:46 Slightly slower again, but far better than last year where I was taking double the time at this stage. Meno away in front of me again. Myself and KU were having a similar battle, with me getting away in front and him overtaking me on the lap.

Run 3: 1:33 Disappointed with this lap. I lost focus halfway down the back straight and got engaged in a full blown conversation with meno as we watched the epic finish on the other side. Maybe if I'd kicked on here instead I'd have beat him.

Beer 4: 0:51 Inevitably this was the slowest transition of the night. Anyone who has done a beer mile will understand that's going to be the case. Happy enough with it. I remember it well and couldn't have got it down any quicker. Meno on the other hand took an insurmountable fifteen second lead on me here. I was sure I saw beer/froth spewing out of the bottle as he tossed it aside and raised a Hawkeye style challenge as a result. The umpire (Dubgal72) waved my objections away. As I moved away in vain pursuit, I noticed KU was still drinking his last beer. I couldn't believe it. This time last year himself & Dogslysmile were about to lap me!

Run 4: 1:14 I had almost managed to expel any gas and bloatedness by the time I hit the first bend, so knew I could put the hammer down as a result. Meno was a long way ahead at this stage though and I knew it was very unlikely I would catch him. I could feel myself gaining all the time, but in the straight I just ran out of ground. He took a sneaky look over his shoulder before he celebrated just to make sure

I ran all the way through the finish and was given 8th position with a time of 8:27. I've lost seven seconds in there somewhere, but I don't know where as I've watched the video a few times now and that's the best I can come up with :P

Verdict

Very happy with the result, as sub 9 was the goal going in and I was considerably better than that. Disgusted Little bit disappointed I didn't beat meno though. Delighted to finish ahead of some top athletes, especially KU who lapped me last year. I think we have to recognise that anyone (KU, Chivito, Timaay) who ran a race in lecheile earlier that afternoon seriously underperformed though, so it's a bit of a hollow victory. Those races obviously took a lot out of the lads. Some top performances by a fair few debutants with plenty of sub 10's which is really impressive. Finally a big thanks to TRR for organising such a wonderful event and an even bigger shout out to the volunteers and spectators who attended on the night (pity you had to put up with meno's moaning!

). It was hugely appreciated by all taking part. I know a few names, but not all and I don't want to leave anyone out.

Until next year.......

annapr

menoscemo wrote: »

That looks very like a 70 second last lap, you were moving at 4;30/mile pace for the most of it.
No wonder I had to turn on the after burners to stay ahead :eek:

Good strategy, Meno, slowing him down by engaging him in conversation... cunning! A beer mile version of good ol' Tyrone trash talk

menoscemo

annapr wrote: »

Good strategy, Meno, slowing him down by engaging him in conversation... cunning! A beer mile version of good ol' Tyrone trash talk

Thanks yeah, I tried it on lap 1 too but he wasn't chatting, I managed to take those 3 crucial seconds off him on lap 3 though by commenting on the national record up front. He slowed right down for that chat.

kit3

annapr wrote: »

Good strategy, Meno, slowing him down by engaging him in conversation... cunning! A beer mile version of good ol' Tyrone trash talk

menoscemo wrote: »

Thanks yeah, I tried it on lap 1 too but he wasn't chatting, I managed to take those 3 crucial seconds off him on lap 3 though by commenting on the national record up front. He slowed right down for that chat.

Is that something they teach ye in school up there ??