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Cyclists should do a theory test!

lickme

A lot of cyclists have no concept of the rules of the road and are getting more and more agressive. There acting like they have the right of way the whole time, weaving in and out of traffic, breaking red lights, not adhering and not looking for possible dangers ahead. Stricter and harsher penalties are needed for them. A piece of advice playing chicken with cars will not work well in the long run for ye. Should be made do some sort of simulation test or something. They are some decent cyclists but most are idiots.

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ArmaniJeanss

tipparetops wrote: »

They should have a licence, insurance and tax. If they want to use the roads, they should pay for them.
And those pricks who get dressed up at the weekend, they are suffering a mid life crisis. Oddballs.

The wonderful news is that no government is going to grant your wish and force cyclists to be licensed or insured, or charge us a fee, or force us into particular lanes in the road or limit our access.

The opposite will happen in the next decade, more cycle lanes, cycle routes and greenways, expanded bikeshare schemes, bike priority traffic lights.
More and more cyclists on the roads, some whizzing past poor you stuck in traffic, others leisure cyclists meandering along.

Its going to be great, so deal with it.

RainyDay

machiavellianme wrote: »

Other countries are different to Ireland, particularly in Europe where many capital cities are flat.
Look around. It's mostly people under 25 cycling, who typically don't have massive incomes. Sure, there's a few weekend warriors but not likely a significant portion (it's estimated to be less than 10%) of the cycling population. Of course there's those who have availed of the bike to work scheme but how many of those actually bike to work?

That's not what I see around Dublin. I see cyclists of all ages, professions and income. In fact, usage among students is fairly low. The last census showed that more secondary school girls were driving themselves to school than cycling to school. This is partly because of the naked agression to cyclists shown on this thread, and partly because the RSA are determined to make cyclists appear as a dangerous activity, with their emphasis on hi-vis.

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

In fact, us cyclists get a tax break in order to encourage more of us onto our bikes. The 'bike to work' scheme....effectively 40% off a bike, funded by the taxpayer. Thanks drivers!

You're such a tease!

Saipanne wrote: »

Two type of cyclists, in my book. Both easy to spot.

1) The pro. This kind of cyclist obeys the rules of the road. Tends to have a flash bike and all the proper cycling gear. I rarely see this type breaking lights or flying down footpaths. This group forms the minority of cyclists.

2) The amateur. These people behave as if they are in a secret competition to be as reckless as possible. Tend to use those ridiculous looking Dublin Bikes or some piece of **** bone shaker. Often see them tearing down Grafton Street, as if one sudden movement by a child won't cause utter mayhem. These idiots form the majority of cyclists.

That wouldn't be my experience either. I see lots of 'pro' cyclists breaking lights etc, and some who don't, and same for the amateurs. The only correlation that I've noticed is that many of those who wrap up in helmets and hi-vis are some of the worst cyclists from a safety point of view. False sense of security, maybe?

machiavellianme

ThisRegard wrote: »

Genuine question, do you have figures to back that up, as I don't see that.

Try the esri, I don't own any personal data that I can publish on this but saw some interesting stats at a workshop on same last year.

kylith

RainyDay wrote: »

I don't see any bike lines big enough for a bus.

https://goo.gl/maps/FU80d

Would you like to be more specific, or maybe share a link to a map location?

Also, note the number of cars illegally parked in the cycle lane on the right, and it looks to me like that silver car on the left is encroaching on the cycle lane.

Chloris

RainyDay wrote:

Nice victim blaming. I don't hear any huge clamour for drivers who kill other road users to be dealt with harshly round here.

What are you on about. We're talking about cyclists using the road in a dangerous way. Obviously anyone who kills anyone should serve time in prison. Nobody is contending that.

Saipanne

Two type of cyclists, in my book. Both easy to spot.

1) The pro. This kind of cyclist obeys the rules of the road. Tends to have a flash bike and all the proper cycling gear. I rarely see this type breaking lights or flying down footpaths. This group forms the minority of cyclists.

2) The amateur. These people behave as if they are in a secret competition to be as reckless as possible. Tend to use those ridiculous looking Dublin Bikes or some piece of **** bone shaker. Often see them tearing down Grafton Street, as if one sudden movement by a child won't cause utter mayhem. These idiots form the majority of cyclists.

Grandpa Hassan

These threads make me laugh as everyone gets so irate and wind each other up to a hatred of cyclists. And as a cyclist I sit here and know that nothing will ever be done to implement these ridiculous ideas. Pay 'road' tax? It's lsughable (at least it would be if road tax existed!).

In fact, us cyclists get a tax break in order to encourage more of us onto our bikes. The 'bike to work' scheme....effectively 40% off a bike, funded by the taxpayer. Thanks drivers!

Joe prim

Am I too late to say that they don't pay road tax?

(Just glanced back over the thread, i am too late, sorry about that, please disregard this post)

BTW, am I too late to say they should stay off the FOOTpath ?

ThisRegard

Genuine question, do you have figures to back that up, as I don't see that.

machiavellianme

RainyDay wrote: »

Motor tax comes nowhere near covering the cost of road infrastructure. Roads are subsidised from general taxation.

How did you work out that cyclists are often the poorest? Research from other countries shows cyclists having higher average income than motorists, therefore paying more income tax and consumption taxes.

Other countries are different to Ireland, particularly in Europe where many capital cities are flat.
Look around. It's mostly people under 25 cycling, who typically don't have massive incomes. Sure, there's a few weekend warriors but not likely a significant portion (it's estimated to be less than 10%) of the cycling population. Of course there's those who have availed of the bike to work scheme but how many of those actually bike to work?

RainyDay

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Yes they do it's just not called what it's used for, it's indirect taxation that's creamed off as needed.

Motor tax comes nowhere near covering the cost of road infrastructure. Roads are subsidised from general taxation.

machiavellianme wrote: »

So you would have cyclists, who are often the poorest in society (students, children etc) pay a direct taxation for the upkeep of the roads so that motorists can continue to enjoy them (while only contributing indirectly, if at all, themselves)?

How did you work out that cyclists are often the poorest? Research from other countries shows cyclists having higher average income than motorists, therefore paying more income tax and consumption taxes.

machiavellianme

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Yes they do it's just not called what it's used for, it's indirect taxation that's creamed off as needed.

So you would have cyclists, who are often the poorest in society (students, children etc) pay a direct taxation for the upkeep of the roads so that motorists can continue to enjoy them (while only contributing indirectly, if at all, themselves)?
This seems unfair. Remove the cars, trucks and buses from the roads and it will be a long time before the road falls into disrepair due to the volume of cyclists passing over. Remove the cyclists and the plight of motorists will only get worse,i.e. more cars on the road, increased congestion and potentially more accidents.

Clearlier

I continue to be surprised at the level of vitriol directed towards cyclists. The number of adults on bikes who are not also licenced motorists is trivial.

A lot of the issues that cyclists face revolve around design. Urban streets should be designed first for pedestrians, then cyclists/scooter users and finally cars.

As a basic rule of thumb priority should be given to the slower moving person/vehicle but consideration should be given to all road users by all road users.

BTW, one of the reasons for the discrepancy between what cyclists report about motorists and motorists report about cyclists is that when you're driving you interact with relatively few cars and when you're cycling you don't see that many other cyclists but as a cyclist you see a large number of cars and as a driver you see a whole lot of cyclists.

Captain Chaos

namloc1980 wrote: »

Drivers don't pay road tax either.

Yes they do it's just not called what it's used for, it's indirect taxation that's creamed off as needed.

RainyDay

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The Howth Road from Raheny village, all the way to the sea front. It's 50/50 for bikes and cars all the way. Buses have to use part of the lane as they can't fit in the driving lane alone.

I don't see any bike lines big enough for a bus.

https://goo.gl/maps/FU80d

Would you like to be more specific, or maybe share a link to a map location?

Captain Chaos

RainyDay wrote: »

Where is this road with the gigantic cycle lane?

The Howth Road from Raheny village, all the way to the sea front. It's 50/50 for bikes and cars all the way. Buses have to use part of the lane as they can't fit in the driving lane alone. The road is essentailly split into 3 equal thirds. The driving lane towards the sea front is the centre of the road while traffic coming the other way have the same space on the right as the cycle lane on the left.

namloc1980

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Then why are there cycle lanes on such roads all over Dublin. Right beside me is a road with a 60kps limit with a cycle lane wide enough for a bus, it's as wide as the driving lane, and they pay no road tax.

Drivers don't pay road tax either.

machiavellianme

tipparetops wrote: »

Cyclists have no business on roads where the speed limit is over 50kph.
And any parent who let's their child cycle on their own, should have social services at the door.

What about cyclists who are travelling over 50kph? It's not unthinkable on the flat.
Plus, if you think that a child cycling alone is an offence worthy of having intervention on your family, then you must've lived a sheltered life. How many of us or our parents would've been spoken to by "social services" if that were the case? There are kids out there who need help but you'd rather waste time on some trivial issue?

RainyDay

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Then why are there cycle lanes on such roads all over Dublin. Right beside me is a road with a 60kps limit with a cycle lane wide enough for a bus, it's as wide as the driving lane, and they pay no road tax.

Where is this road with the gigantic cycle lane?

Chips Lovell

mojesius wrote: »

Please don't pull in front of me at the lights when I recently overtook you. You're clearly cycling at a slower pace than I am.

Yep. And you wouldn't believe the number of cyclists who'll complain about this but do the exact same thing themselves to motorists, obliging them to overtake them again after the lights turn.

Vast majority of cyclists on the road are clueless muppets.

Then again, so's the majority of motorists.

RainyDay

tipparetops wrote: »

Cyclists have no business on roads where the speed limit is over 50kph.

Why's that now? Are most motorists incapable of carrying out a simple overtaking manoevre?

tipparetops wrote: »

And any parent who let's their child cycle on their own, should have social services at the door.

Nice victim blaming. I don't hear any huge clamour for drivers who kill other road users to be dealt with harshly round here.

ThisRegard

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Then why are there cycle lanes on such roads all over Dublin. Right beside me is a road with a 60kps limit with a cycle lane wide enough for a bus, it's as wide as the driving lane, and they pay no road tax.

You personally know every cyclist and how many cars they own?

I pay "road tax" on two cars. When I'm on my bike I deserve more of the road than all the crusty proles with one car

machiavellianme

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Then why are there cycle lanes on such roads all over Dublin. Right beside me is a road with a 60kps limit with a cycle lane wide enough for a bus, it's as wide as the driving lane, and they pay no road tax.

Nor do you, or anyone else in Ireland. There's no such thing.
Plus there's a mandate to reduce carbon emissions by 2020. The provision of cycle lanes helps meet that.

Capt'n Midnight

RayM wrote: »

The very same applies to car drivers. Most don't even know how to indicate properly on roundabouts. Failure to indicate correctly should be a penalty points offence.

It is.

Driving without reasonable consideration 2 points

But enforcement here is abysmal. Have you ever seen anyone avoid driving on hatched lines when queuing to turn right ? That's one penalty point.

Also

Contravention of rules for use of mini roundabouts

Failure to turn left when entering a roundabout

Failure to obey requirements at junctions,
e.g. Not being in the correct lane when turning onto another road

Captain Chaos

tipparetops wrote: »

Cyclists have no business on roads where the speed limit is over 50kph.

Then why are there cycle lanes on such roads all over Dublin. Right beside me is a road with a 60kps limit with a cycle lane wide enough for a bus, it's as wide as the driving lane, and they pay no road tax.

tipparetops

Cyclists have no business on roads where the speed limit is over 50kph.
And any parent who let's their child cycle on their own, should have social services at the door.

micar

mojesius wrote: »

I frequently get 'tutted' at by other cyclists behind me for stopping at a red light. No, the green man doesn't include you. Your light is still red.

Also, wearing headphones while cycling should be banned.

Please don't pull in front of me at the lights when I recently overtook you. You're clearly cycling at a slower pace than I am.

I should have gone to to ranting and raving forum but fcuk it

I could have written this. Points 2 and 3 seriously wreak my head.

rubadub

Colser wrote: »

a basic red traffic light than cyclists seem to have difficulty with...

And do you think a theory test will help that?

Maybe burglars should be made do a theory test to tell them what they are doing is illegal, maybe they are unaware what they are doing is illegal.

I expect 99.9% of cyclists are fully aware they are breaking the law, as do the gardai who do not enforce the law in many cases.

Conversely it seems many pedestrians are unaware about the laws they break. In many threads where I mention "jaywalking" type laws you often get a few posters saying there are not "jaywalking" type laws in Ireland at all -which just shows how rife it is, and how unenforced. A few months ago I saw people dangerously illegally crossing the road in Dame street in front of about 4 gardai, who did nothing.

RainyDay

Colser wrote: »

To be fair roundabouts can be a little more difficult to negotiate than a basic red traffic light than cyclists seem to have difficulty with...

OK then, let's focus on how drivers routinely blow through red lights:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92964191&postcount=597

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The trouble for me is, while you're right about a car collision damaging a pedestrian more than a bicycle collision, the latter is far, far more likely to happen to pedestrians who obey the rules because of (a) cyclists on the footpath and (b) cyclists who break red lights.

I've had many more near misses with cyclists over the last few years than with cars, generally because when I'm walking on the footpath a car is highly unlikely to mount the pavement with no warning (at the very least, you can hear it coming) and secondly, because in four years of college I've never seen a car sail through a light which has been red for a long time with a green man, but I see cyclists do it every day. Cars do sometimes speed up to get a light which has just turned red, but I'm talking about a light which is about to go green again having been a green man for the last minute or so. Many cyclists just ignore red lights full stop - and worse than that, not just red lights but crowds of people.

DareGod wrote: »

Cyclists breaking red lights is an epidemic at this stage. I see cyclists do it ten times more than I see cars do it, and as a pedestrian they've almost mowed me down a number of times. Who do they think they are, exactly? And I speak as a pedestrian, a cyclist and a driver.

In fairness, this is probably correct. A higher percentage of cyclists break red lights a higher percentage of time than motorists. But if you want to look at law-breaking on the roads, lets look at the big picture.

What percentage of motorists routinely break the speed limits? [Hint: Just about every single motorist]. What percentage of motorists routinely use the phone to make call or to text or to FB or tweet? [About one in five, based on my own observations in Dublin]. What percentage of motorists routinely drive with a missing brake light or rear light? [About one in twenty, based on my own observations]. What percentage of motorists routinely fail to indicate when turning? [About one in three, based on yada yada yada].

So if you want to look at which group of road users breaks the law most frequently, I don't think you should be focusing on cyclists.

And then if you want to be strategic, let's take a look at who causes injury on the roads. Motorists kill 200+ each year, and maim thousands of others. Cyclists don't.

machiavellianme

Spook_ie wrote: »

Actually 0g CO2 emissions motor tax is Group A0 which is €120 per year

Nicely pointed out.
But where is the motor on a bike?