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The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

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Slobberdawn

Jampip, why do say Keating won't play under Hyland?

[Deleted User]

I honestly don't see how Hyland can be slated for losing the game from the line.

Ciaran Brady was brought on, did well, forced a turnover, got on ball, scored a point. Dunne was brought on, scored a lovely point. Hayes was brought on, forced the last 45.
People slate Hyland for not making switches in time, he takes off McEnroe because he's on a yellow and he's slated for it. He's in a lose lose situation. In my opinion the management deserve huge credit for the game on Sunday, tactics were spot on and put us in a position to win the game, individual errors and other factors contributed much much more to the loss than anything the management did or didn't do. For me the differences were this:

1. Martin Reilly's black card, shouldn't have been a black card, his arm was dragged in by the Monaghan player. He had been involved in 25 passages of play for Cavan prior to coming off. One or two points in that rough patch to stave off Monaghan's fight back would have seen us through and Reilly has been our main playmaker all year.

2. McLoughlin pulling out of the tackle with Hughes. That was a huge moment. McLoughlin could perhaps have been taken off, he wasn't having a good day. Had Killian Brady been there I have no doubt he would have either got the ball or killed himself and Darren Hughes trying. But McLoughlin is a more disciplined defender and frees were killing us so it was a 50/50 call to make that change.

3. Conor McManus towards the end. The score from the sideline near the end was just sublime, top top quality. He was unplayable. If he wasn't on the field I believe we would have won.

4. Ray Galligan's frees. You can't exactly slate a guy for missing a free from 55 odd metres. But that's what it takes to upset the odds sometimes. Galligan has the ability to do it, whether he has it in him to do it at that level under that pressure remains to be seen. 45s should be going over but the wind was a factor. Either way it was two kicks on goal missed when the game was on a knife edge.

If Keating won't play under Hyland then let him do as he pleases but it's not a stick to beat Hyland with, if that is the case. Keating isn't exactly Mr consistent and would be better focussing on sorting out the gaping holes in his own game than being picky about who he plays under. There's lads in the county that would play under Hitler to get into a Cavan jersey.

As for coaching lads to pull a defender down and make it look like a foul, that's just bull****. It's a tiny tiny element of a forward's play, a sneaky trick acquired over years by good forwards. It's not something you one day decide to coach for God's sake!

I'd be sorry to see Gilly go but he's hardly the most professional of players on the panel and his history of errors mean that he won't be altogether difficult to replace. Missed kicks aside yesterday, Galligan looked good and I'd be sticking with him now if I was Hyland. Farrelly can provide able back up if needed.

Tom Joad

Well said Keepthefaith great post.

Slobberdawn

Well said KeepTheFaith.

I would add Mackey being asleep at both throw-ins as well as running down blind alleys and giving a stupid foot pass in from the right wing towards McDermott in the last 10 minutes.

Also, Tom Hayes and Dunne both trying to cross the ball into a 50/50 area near the end instead of trying to recycle the ball to get to a shooting position.

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

I honestly don't see how Hyland can be slated for losing the game from the line.

Ciaran Brady was brought on, did well, forced a turnover, got on ball, scored a point. Dunne was brought on, scored a lovely point. Hayes was brought on, forced the last 45.
People slate Hyland for not making switches in time, he takes off McEnroe because he's on a yellow and he's slated for it. He's in a lose lose situation. In my opinion the management deserve huge credit for the game on Sunday, tactics were spot on and put us in a position to win the game, individual errors and other factors contributed much much more to the loss than anything the management did or didn't do. For me the differences were this:

1. Martin Reilly's black card, shouldn't have been a black card, his arm was dragged in by the Monaghan player. He had been involved in 25 passages of play for Cavan prior to coming off. One or two points in that rough patch to stave off Monaghan's fight back would have seen us through and Reilly has been our main playmaker all year.

2. McLoughlin pulling out of the tackle with Hughes. That was a huge moment. McLoughlin could perhaps have been taken off, he wasn't having a good day. Had Killian Brady been there I have no doubt he would have either got the ball or killed himself and Darren Hughes trying. But McLoughlin is a more disciplined defender and frees were killing us so it was a 50/50 call to make that change.

3. Conor McManus towards the end. The score from the sideline near the end was just sublime, top top quality. He was unplayable. If he wasn't on the field I believe we would have won.

4. Ray Galligan's frees. You can't exactly slate a guy for missing a free from 55 odd metres. But that's what it takes to upset the odds sometimes. Galligan has the ability to do it, whether he has it in him to do it at that level under that pressure remains to be seen. 45s should be going over but the wind was a factor. Either way it was two kicks on goal missed when the game was on a knife edge.

If Keating won't play under Hyland then let him do as he pleases but it's not a stick to beat Hyland with, if that is the case. Keating isn't exactly Mr consistent and would be better focussing on sorting out the gaping holes in his own game than being picky about who he plays under. There's lads in the county that would play under Hitler to get into a Cavan jersey.

As for coaching lads to pull a defender down and make it look like a foul, that's just bull****. It's a tiny tiny element of a forward's play, a sneaky trick acquired over years by good forwards. It's not something you one day decide to coach for God's sake!

I'd be sorry to see Gilly go but he's hardly the most professional of players on the panel and his history of errors mean that he won't be altogether difficult to replace. Missed kicks aside yesterday, Galligan looked good and I'd be sticking with him now if I was Hyland. Farrelly can provide able back up if needed.

If Reilly's black card was incorrect, why didn't he argue his case with the referee?

I'd have to disagree. The tactics were wrong in the second half. Hyland has admitted himself they stopped the ball going into Argue. Why? It had worked in the first half, Wylie was struggling and was injured at that stage. Why didn't they keep bombing the ball in on top of him? Particularly with Dunne coming on at 53 minutes. In the first half, we were crying out for someone to feed off the ball that Argue was breaking down. I've watched the RTE coverage and the pundits even pointed out that the one area we were lacking in for playing a big full forward was no half forward line or forward to win the breaking ball in that area. If a conscious decision was made not to send the ball in, why not move Argue out and stick in Hayes or Dunne then?

Re McEnroe, he went off when we were leading against Meath and the whole game opened up and we ended up losing. The minute I saw him going off, I panicked. I would have taken Damien O'Reilly, who was on a yellow also, off ahead of him. Feargal Flanagan was struggling with McManus in the second half, He's not a corner back. I realise any back will struggle with McManus but why was Josh Hayes maor uisce? You talk about KIllian Brady being the only alternative but if Hayes had been in the matchday panel he could have been thrown on for McLoughlin and moved over onto McManus. I saw no mention of injury before the game. Hyland said we had a full bill of health bar Clarke.

You referenced three substitutes. I fully admit that Ciaran Brady did well. Dunne did also and is a lot better coming into a game. Hayes wasn't on long enough to be honest. He was lucky with that 45 and you could say that Argue won it and not actually Hayes. You're conveniently forgetting Lyng though. He was poor. He generally struggles in games when he comes on. Last year in the League Final, he came on and ran up and down the sideline and did very little else. We also only used three substitutes. There was the option there for another two to be introduced when players were clearly tired and struggling.

I think there has to be questions over any manager when his team are playing at home and four points up with fifteen minutes to go and lose. Monaghan made changes that greatly effected the game. Gallogly coming on. He's a bundle of energy. Why not stick on our own bundle of energy Killian Brady to run around and disrupt things? If you see Gallogly he charges around the field like a mad man, that lifts the team. The game very much mirrored the Meath league game. We should have closed it out but we didn't.

Does anyone have a copy of the qualifier groups? I hear this morning we are on the good side of the draw.

Slobberdawn

Good reply Jampip.

Hayes is very late back to the panel and was never that highly rated by Hyland it would seem.

Martin Reilly's arm was definitely grabbed by the Monaghan man and he did have a discussion with the ref while he was writing his name. I wouldn't use the extent of his complaints as a compass.

Lyng has done little to warrant being brought on but Terry pointed out that in losing Martin we lost our link man. I guess he saw Lyng as the best replacement in that regard. Barry Reilly might have been worth a shout with his free-taking ability.

We're in side A of the draw which is Cavan, Longford/Dublin, London, Tipp/Wateford, Carlow, Kildare/Laois, Fermanagh/Antrim, Offaly. We'd be the highest ranked team there along with Laois/Kildare so it appears to be weaker when you consider that Tyrone and one from Armagh/Donegal and Down/Derry are the other side.

celt262

McEnroe was taking off before he was sent off. He must have done something in the two minutes he was on at start of he second half that may have lead to a card. Management didn't just decide to take him off then and not at half time without a good reason.

For the last 45 Galligan was heading up the field and looked over towards the bench I said to a few beside me what's he looking over for why does he not just go up and kick it. A lad beside me said Hyland was signalling at him to go back but the players around him at time told him to go on and kick it.

If Terry did not want him to kick it I wonder who he had in mind.

Blue in hope

I Would agree with Keep the Faith.
Reilly did argue his case with the ref about his black card which I believe was incorrect call. I felt Flanagan did as good as job as could be expected against McManus. If was said to you McManus would only score two from play before the game you would have taken it.
Monaghan changed their tactics in the second half and always had one and sometimes two players sweeping up in front of Argue so the high ball in was going to be a lot harder to work in the second half. Argue was breaking the ball and wad not catching it.
The ref was awarding soft frees in the second half against Cavan so I believe Killian Brady would certainly not have worked as he always plays on the edge.
I felt one big turning point was in the second half when McVitty was shouldered in the back by Gallogly and was awarded a free against him for falling on the ball. This was an incorrect call and and all commentators on both BBC and RTE said that. Martin Reilly was still on the pitch and I believe would have been well able to point from the free. That would have given Cavan a five point lead,instead from the free out Monaghan went up the field and scored a point. That was a two point swing from Cavan been five up to been only three up. If Cavan had been five up I don't believe Monaghan would have come back from that.

willabur

I think the game can be boiled down to one simple thing. Monaghan had half the wides that Cavan had.

I would add to that that a factor contributing to this stat is that the referee seemed to give them many soft frees - the free count was also stacked in their favour. That would suggest that rather than kicking under pressure as Cavan had to, Monaghan had the luxury of taking their shots from frees hence the higher success rate

Tom Joad

Slobberdawn wrote: »

Jampip, why do say Keating won't play under Hyland?

Still curious about this.

Well there's obviously issues with players and management because so many have pulled back from the panel.

Not sure about this either. As far as I can tell the players are very happy with Hyland and not one of the players who have left have said it was because of Hyland - I find that strange if that was an issue. Usually players that leave because they are unhappy with management are only too happy to let it be known, particularly if as you say half the county are against him.

Also I haven't heard anything about Gilly leaving the panel - can anyone cast any light on this?

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Still curious about this.

Not sure about this either. As far as I can tell the players are very happy with Hyland and not one of the players who have left have said it was because of Hyland - I find that strange if that was an issue. Usually players that leave because they are unhappy with management are only too happy to let it be known, particularly if as you say half the county are against him.

Also I haven't heard anything about Gilly leaving the panel - can anyone cast any light on this?

Hyland and Keating had previous issues in the U21s. Do you think it's a coincidence that both David Givney and Eugene Keating, two close friends, both opted out of the panel this year? There's no point sticking your head in the sand and acting like there's no issue there.

I never said half the county were against him. I said "The county is split into a big anti Terry and pro Terry divide". I didn't mention numbers in either divide.

It's generally when the manager moves on that players will air their opinions.

I've seen people give various reasons for the loss - number of wides, referee giving soft frees, Martin Reilly getting a black card etc. The bottom line is we weren't good enough in the end. I think the players are partly to blame for that (individual errors, giving away stupid frees) but, as I've outlined above, I think the management have questions to answer also.

I'd also like to see a bit of change to the panel. Gerard Smith, for example, played three years with the U21s since he was 18 and is a player with pace who can kick a score.

Why not give him a run and release some of the lads who have been going in their three or four years, playing minimally, yet missing out on games with their clubs.

Seeing the Group we're in, I'd be hopeful of a decent qualifier draw. A good run like 2013 would be fantastic.

cavan4sam

Slobberdawn wrote: »

Well said KeepTheFaith.

I would add Mackey being asleep at both throw-ins as well as running down blind alleys and giving a stupid foot pass in from the right wing towards McDermott in the last 10 minutes.

Also, Tom Hayes and Dunne both trying to cross the ball into a 50/50 area near the end instead of trying to recycle the ball to get to a shooting position.

i think you hit the nail on the head there , to me it was the most important play of the day as it resulted in , if i recall dick clerkins score which gave monaghan a real lift .

keep the faith a great post

Tom Joad

Hyland and Keating had previous issues in the U21s. Do you think it's a coincidence that both David Givney and Eugene Keating, two close friends, both opted out of the panel this year? There's no point sticking your head in the sand and acting like there's no issue there.

Never knew there was issues between Hyland and Keating before at under 21. But, no I don't think it's a coincidence that both opted out - no coincidence that they are both playing club football in Dublin and opted out. And again what can management do? If Keating was allowed by the county board to move back to club football in Cavan would he be back for the county team, I wonder? I'm not sticking my head in the sand -where is your evidence for this issue - I just don't see it, genuinely.

I never said half the county were against him. I said "The county is split into a big anti Terry and pro Terry divide". I didn't mention numbers in either divide.

Semantics - definition of split "break or cause to break forcibly into parts, especially into halves or along the grain".

It's generally when the manager moves on that players will air their opinions.

Got a good chuckle out of that. Today's media savvy footballers no well how to get a story out in the media if they are not happy. And when did you know disgruntled Cavan footballers to be shy about letting their unhappiness be known at the time. Didn't we get rid of one manager doing that

I simply don't buy that allegedly X players have left the panel because of issues with management and the media don't have a whiff of it and these players just go off and say nothing - it's simply not plausible.

I know we are not going to agree on the management and I do agree that mistakes were made on Sunday and we should have won but there is no evidence that players have quit because of the manager - simple as.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Never knew there was issues between Hyland and Keating before at under 21. But, no I don't think it's a coincidence that both opted out - no coincidence that they are both playing club football in Dublin and opted out. And again what can management do? If Keating was allowed by the county board to move back to club football in Cavan would he be back for the county team, I wonder? I'm not sticking my head in the sand -where is your evidence for this issue - I just don't see it, genuinely.

Semantics - definition of split "break or cause to break forcibly into parts, especially into halves or along the grain".

Got a good chuckle out of that. Today's media savvy footballers no well how to get a story out in the media if they are not happy. And when did you know disgruntled Cavan footballers to be shy about letting their unhappiness be known at the time. Didn't we get rid of one manager doing that

I simply don't buy that allegedly X players have left the panel because of issues with management and the media don't have a whiff of it and these players just go off and say nothing - it's simply not plausible.

I know we are not going to agree on the management and I do agree that mistakes were made on Sunday and we should have won but there is no evidence that players have quit because of the manager - simple as.

Keating was put off the U21 panel in 2010 after a falling out about travelling to a challenge game. He brought his car rather than getting on the team bus and was late. It's well known in the county.

Semantics or not, I never said half the county was anti Terry. I said there is a clear divide.

And what local media are going to pick up the story about these players? The local sports reporters and commentators that were taking selfies with Terry and the team on the team bus in New York!? I'm sure we can rely on them for unbiased coverage! One of them even house shares with Terry's son for gods sake!

It's not plausible - well then why hasn't Sean Johnston released his story to reporters? He has more reason than anyone to go public but he chooses to keep his counsel as others have done.

Michael Hannon is the only reporter who criticises Terry in the media and that is because he has his own axe to grind.

Tom Joad

Keating was put off the U21 panel in 2010 after a falling out about travelling to a challenge game. He brought his car rather than getting on the team bus and was late. It's well known in the county.

Genuinely didn't recall that but asked one of the lads there about it - he was put off the panel for not applying himself. If that is the case it was obviously brilliant management because he came back and did apply himself and we got a few good years out of him.

Semantics or not, I never said half the county was anti Terry. I said there is a clear divide.

Split is the word you used, I given you the dictionary definition of split whether you used the words or not, the definition is the definition.

And what local media are going to pick up the story about these players? The local sports reporters and commentators that were taking selfies with Terry and the team on the team bus in New York!? I'm sure we can rely on them for unbiased coverage! One of them even house shares with Terry's son for gods sake!

It's not plausible - well then why hasn't Sean Johnston released his story to reporters? He has more reason than anyone to go public but he chooses to keep his counsel as others have done.

Quick google gives contemporaneous stories from local and national media as well as hoganstand about Cavan players unhappy with Liam Austin and Val Andrews. Do we believe now that everything has changed the players under current management have taken some kind of code of omerta

SheldonC17

Jampip wrote: »

I'd also like to see a bit of change to the panel. Gerard Smith, for example, played three years with the U21s since he was 18 and is a player with pace who can kick a score.

Why not give him a run and release some of the lads who have been going in their three or four years, playing minimally, yet missing out on games with their clubs.

This is a big point for me. Every year we complain about the lack of changes on the line but it surely comes down to Hyland not having faith in much of the panel to do it in the heat of championship. Barry Reilly was regularly used in challenge games yet when the big day comes Lyng gets on ahead of him. McKeever should be used aswel, he is on the panbel but rarely gets gametime.

We would be much better of including more of the u21s from the last few years such as Smith, Buchanan, Moynagh, Sankey etc. Unfortunately the fords issue may continue for a few years.

Jampip

Tom Joad wrote: »

Genuinely didn't recall that but asked one of the lads there about it - he was put off the panel for not applying himself. If that is the case it was obviously brilliant management because he came back and did apply himself and we got a few good years out of him.

Split is the word you used, I given you the dictionary definition of split whether you used the words or not, the definition is the definition.

Quick google gives contemporaneous stories from local and national media as well as hoganstand about Cavan players unhappy with Liam Austin and Val Andrews. Do we believe now that everything has changed the players under current management have taken some kind of code of omerta

Brilliant management that he now won't play for the county!? At a time when we need him most. A marquee forward is what we need and, say what you like about him, Keating has the potential to be it. 5 points from play on McGee in 2012.

There are plenty of definitions of the word split:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Split

2.
a. To separate (people or groups, for example); disunite.
b. Sports To advance between (a pair of defenders) when trying to score.
3. To divide and share: split a dessert.
4. To divide, as for convenience or proper ordering: split the project up into stages.
5. To separate (leather, for example) into layers.
6. To mark (a vote or ballot) in favor of candidates from different parties.

You're picking one that suits you. As I said, I never said half the county was against Hyland. I said "The county is split into a big anti Terry and pro Terry divide".

You also choose to ignore the word "divide". The definition for it is:

"separate or be separated into PARTS". Parts as in not being two halves.

You're clutching at straws now with Liam Austin also. That's 1999. 16 years ago. Some of the current panel wouldn't even know who Liam Austin is! Argue would have been four or five back then yet you try to argue the players back then and how they acted would be indicative of the actions of or can be compared to players now! Complete tripe.

Can you link to some of the articles where players actually spoke out against Andrews while he was still manager? I couldn't find any when I googled.

As I've said, Val didn't have a former player of his as the main commentator at the local radio station and the local newspaper sports writer living with his son. He also wasn't bringing reporters to New York for selfies on the team bus.

You failed to acknowledge any of those points. You also failed to acknowledge that the players have taken an omertà on the Johnston issue, as has he himself.

SheldonC17 wrote: »

This is a big point for me. Every year we complain about the lack of changes on the line but it surely comes down to Hyland not having faith in much of the panel to do it in the heat of championship. Barry Reilly was regularly used in challenge games yet when the big day comes Lyng gets on ahead of him. McKeever should be used aswel, he is on the panbel but rarely gets gametime.

We would be much better of including more of the u21s from the last few years such as Smith, Buchanan, Moynagh, Sankey etc. Unfortunately the fords issue may continue for a few years.

Moynagh didn't look the part in the League to be honest. McKeever had a dreadful game against Roscommon when he came on last year.

I agree though that he's the type of physical player we could have done with late on.

I think it's time to cut Lyng loose. There are at least a couple of others I'd also be letting go of. There's a problem if a player is there 3/4 years and isn't a regular starter.

Tom Joad

We are going around in circles here Jampip and going way beyond the original point - I can't see us agreeing either or coming to any conclusion so I'll make one last post on the subject and move on. The reason I keep engaging in this is to try and refute the arguments you have made against Hyland since Sunday.

I think you're being a tad sensitive about the issue to be honest. The county is split into a big anti Terry and pro Terry divide.

Look at, anyone that really wants to can look at the oxford english dictionary or make their own conclusion about what split means. But main point for me is that I really don't see this big anti Terry split/divide. I could stick up a poll here and see what the outcome but I'd be fairly certain what the outcome would be.

Whereas top coaches wouldn’t look at us previously, the chance is there now to attract a top notch coach, a man with proven credentials. At the end of the day Terry's only silverware at senior kevel is an intermediate championship with Lavey.

Again what did Boylan, Harte, Fitzmaurice win before been appointed as coach, Martin McHugh for an example closer to home (did he manage Sligo in Sigerson, not sure if anything else??). What they done/won afterwards is irrelevant to the point. All examples off the top of my head of successful managers without proven credentials.

We're also still not cute enough. Through the whole game the Monaghan lads were grabbing arms and winning frees. Why hasn't a coach been employed to work on this?

Who had you in mind for this job?

There's also the issue of players leaving. Conor Gilly is apparently the latest to have gone on Sunday evening after the game.

Can you confirm if Gilly has gone or not?

How is it Hyland's fault? Well there's obviously issues with players and management because so many have pulled back from the panel.

Who are these players that have left because of issues with the management? Yes plenty have left but I'm not aware of any that left because of issues with the panel.

Hyland and Keating had previous issues in the U21s. Do you think it's a coincidence that both David Givney and Eugene Keating, two close friends, both opted out of the panel this year? There's no point sticking your head in the sand and acting like there's no issue there.

Really not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying they left because of issues with Hyland?

I think KeepTheFaith's post said it better about Keating than I could. And as far as I know Givney will be back next year.

These players are on the go for a long time so it's only natural, given the rise in levels of commitments etc of been a Cavan player, that they will want to take some time out- just like Killian Clarke did last year and come back into the panel.

Jampip wrote: »

And what local media are going to pick up the story about these players? The local sports reporters and commentators that were taking selfies with Terry and the team on the team bus in New York!? I'm sure we can rely on them for unbiased coverage! One of them even house shares with Terry's son for gods sake!

It's not plausible - well then why hasn't Sean Johnston released his story to reporters? He has more reason than anyone to go public but he chooses to keep his counsel as others have done.

Michael Hannon is the only reporter who criticises Terry in the media and that is because he has his own axe to grind.

New York happened a few months ago - plenty of opportunity before that. What about national media??

Not going to comment on Seanie as it's not relevant to this and is just bringing a strawman into the argument.

Michael Hannon's column in the Celt this week is titled something along the lines of "Management not at fault... (I don't have it in front of me but it was something along them lines.."

Last word (I promise) - I don't think Terry Hyland is the messiah or anything of the sort but I do still believe that he is the right man for the job. Now if we go out with a whimper in the qualifiers his position would be in jeopardy but at this point in time I am encouraged by what I saw on Sunday and think we are still going in the right direction and I don't believe for one second that there is any issues between the players and management.

baconsarnie

Tom Joad wrote: »

I think KeepTheFaith's post said it better about Keating than I could. And as far as I know Givney will be back next year.

I was under the impression that Givney had surgery on his ankle late last year and that was why he wasn't on the panel. Is he even playing ball at the moment?

In terms of discontent, that's not a new thing. Limited number of places on a panel, and players will get miffed if they aren't selected or don't make the starting 15 consistently. Happens regularly.

And if it is talk of formation/tactics etc etc I don't remember hearing too many players leaving Donegal over the last few years as the style of play didn't meet some lofty ideal of "pure football".

Players will leave for many reasons- some of which are purely personal and needing a break from the game. These lads are close to training and performing as professionals and have to work (and sacrifice an awful lot of family and social time to make these commitments) so it is no surprise that in the modern game that young players take time out. If it stops player burnout, that's not a bad thing at all.

What i find remarkable is that in this day & age of social media that not one player has come out and said "I'm not playing for Cavan under Terry Hyland" at this stage. If all those players had left for the reasons stated (style not suiting etc) surely someone at this stage would have blown the whistle on it? Apart from the illuminati in Shelbyville/Hstand who seem to know every single detail of Cavan's senior panel

BTW- cards on the table- I'm not Terry Hyland or related to him or anything- but talk of sacking him at this stage is fantasy. We are progressing, clearly. We would look like a laughing stock if we ditched a manager who has not only stopped a steady decline but has done a huge amount to progress us in the right direction.

Pretty much any sane analyst has pointed out (Mc Stay for example on the Sunday Game) that what Cavan lacks is a "Marquee Forward" (and many of us pointed out beforehand that Mc Manus would likely be the difference between the teams). Hyland would be to blame if he was consistenly overlooking a player of that calibre- but unless I'm missing something, we don't have that type of player (yet)

Oh, and while I think he's the right man for the job, he's not immune for criticism. For one, he needs to work out why we seem to freeze when we take the lead against a big team (Tyrone in the Mc Kenna cup, Meath & last weekend) and nearly look to "hold the lead". Some of that is inexperience but he needs to sort it out.

celt262

Worth a read this lads.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/new-position-needed-on-line-ups-333297.html

baconsarnie

celt262 wrote: »

Worth a read this lads.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/new-position-needed-on-line-ups-333297.html

Some great points, especially on the media "analysis"

Tom Joad

celt262 wrote: »

Worth a read this lads.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/paddy-heaney/new-position-needed-on-line-ups-333297.html

Thanks for sharing - a refreshing read

[Deleted User]

That Irish Examiner article is fantastic. It's someone like that you want on the Sunday game not Curran questioning what London are adding to the Connacht Championship or Whelan trying to appear smart by spouting irrelevant facts about Pats Winning the MacRory Cup.

Jampip you seem to be claiming that Hyland has infiltrated the top media positions and so won't be questioned? It's worth noting that Mickey Brennan was dropped from the panel by Terry Hyland who told him his intercounty career was over, and that was at a time when Brennan still very much felt that he had lots to contribute. Hardly a rosey relationship.

Anyone know when the Minors will be playing next?

Tom Joad

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Anyone know when the Minors will be playing next?

21st June @ 2:15PM before the Monaghan v Antrim/Fermanagh Senior game - not sure where it will be played.

cavan4sam

great article .......the analysis on the sunday game was lazy and ill informed

baconsarnie

cavan4sam wrote: »

great article .......the analysis on the sunday game was lazy and ill informed

Ah c'mon, that's being generous.

Curran's input was a David Brent master class in talking absolute nonsense. Vertical passes.

Whelan is like a teenager who is soooo world weary. I'm waiting for him to pull a Harry Enfield Kevin and sulk off screen some day. And his wibble about the Mc Rory cup....

Mc Stay was the only one talking sense. At the end of that analysis if you hadn't seen the game you'd assume Monaghan had tanked us

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Jampip you seem to be claiming that Hyland has infiltrated the top media positions and so won't be questioned? It's worth noting that Mickey Brennan was dropped from the panel by Terry Hyland who told him his intercounty career was over, and that was at a time when Brennan still very much felt that he had lots to contribute. Hardly a rosey relationship.

I'll come back to the rest of the points later but this one made me chuckle. A fine example of someone on a forum not having a clue what they are talking about.

I can't find the news article online but I remember the story at the time. Mickey was asked about coming back for Cavan. He said he felt he still had something to offer but that it was Terry's decision and there was no ill will. He was 33 or so at the time. Incidentally, Mickey interviews Terry after every game. Vids are on YouTube. Do you spot any tension?

I actually chat to Mickey regularly and that's why I find your point so amusing. He works as a catering manager in the Kilmore. Call in any day Monday to Friday and he's more than happy to discuss football.

Ask him for his opinion on Terry. The joke amongst a few of the regulars in there for lunch you see is Mickey's delusional love for Terry!

I'll have to show your post to the lunchtime regulars. It'll give them a good laugh.

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

Jampip you seem to be claiming that Hyland has infiltrated the top media positions and so won't be questioned? It's worth noting that Mickey Brennan was dropped from the panel by Terry Hyland who told him his intercounty career was over, and that was at a time when Brennan still very much felt that he had lots to contribute. Hardly a rosey relationship.

[Deleted User]

I'm happy I've given you a laugh but in your rush to be condescending you've gone and missed my point. I'll try again.

You said that we don't have anyone willing to criticise Hyland because one of our radio presenters is an ex player. My point is that Brennan was dropped by Hyland, this came as a shock to Brennan. If Hyland was disliked wouldn't Brennan be the prime candidate to come out against him?
Incidentally I also know Mickey well for a long time, since he ran The Ballyconnel Inn. If you do indeed know him you'll know that he's very much his own man and wouldn't tow a line that he's not happy with or feel pressured into staying silent.
Instead Brennan is undoubtedly a huge fan of Hyland, despite the fact that their player manager relationship didn't end well. Doesn't that tell you something?

Jampip

KeepTheFaith wrote: »

I'm happy I've given you a laugh but in your rush to be condescending you've gone and missed my point. I'll try again.

You said that we don't have anyone willing to criticise Hyland because one of our radio presenters is an ex player. My point is that Brennan was dropped by Hyland, this came as a shock to Brennan. If Hyland was disliked wouldn't Brennan be the prime candidate to come out against him?
Incidentally I also know Mickey well for a long time, since he ran The Ballyconnel Inn. If you do indeed know him you'll know that he's very much his own man and wouldn't tow a line that he's not happy with or feel pressured into staying silent.
Instead Brennan is undoubtedly a huge fan of Hyland, despite the fact that their player manager relationship didn't end well. Doesn't that tell you something?

I'm not sure where you are getting that it came as a shock to Brennan. He was 33 at the time. I also don't know where you are getting that the relationship didn't end well. He was 33 and told that he wasn't needed in the panel at that time but they'd bear him in mind if needed. Brennan said he was still available if called upon. I'm not sure how any of that can be classed as being a "shock" or "didn't end well". Have you any proof of this?

You've just contradicted yourself also. Your initial point was that their relationship was "hardly a rosey relationship". Now its changed to "undoubtedly a huge fan of Hyland". Which is it then?

The bottom line is that you're suggesting there was a strain on their relationship which there simply wasn't.