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Allergic to Work

mfceiling

Just heard Micheal Noonan's comment about some people being allergic to work.

Has he hit the nail on the head?

I'm self employed in construction and with a family I need to work. Thankfully I've managed to keep going but at times I've had to do work I wouldn't normally do and work for lads who would make death a pleasant thought!! I've rang strangers asking if they'd work in the future, sent loads of emails to companies asking them to consider me for work and even called into sites to see what work was available. I've never really been out of work as I line up jobs well in advance to ensure I'm not idle. I love going to work and couldn't bear the thought of sitting on my arse twiddling my thumbs.

Should everyone who is able to work be working? Noonan says there'll be work for anyone who wants it. Should a graphic designer flip burgers or an accountant wait on tables until something in their field comes available?

Would your pride stop you sweeping floors and you'd prefer the dole or do you need to be working?

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[Deleted User]

My name is URL wrote: »

Some people are simply unemployable for whatever reason. There's not much you can do to change that unless there's a massive sea-change in attitudes towards certain demographics of people etc. You can't force businesses to employ people that they don't want to employ and there aren't nearly enough community programs to give them all 'jobs' to do. There's probably not much appetite for it either since it'd end up costing more to implement.

I don't buy into the idea that there are throngs of people who just choose to sit at home all day, every day because they're too lazy to work. You've got to be suffering from depression or something to be in a rut like that.. with no interest or desire to do things, find a purpose in or improve your life.

Agree that there will always be a percentage of the population unemployable for a range of reasons, but strongly disagree with you that there are no people who choose to sit around all day. Because there are. And I am related to some of them, sadly. A lot will claim that it 'isn't worth their while' to work. And that's true when you total up the benefits given to them. But...for some they are coming from a culture where no one in the family works, and breeding is that they do to 'earn' money

Hermy

mfceiling wrote: »

Noonan says there'll be work for anyone who wants it.

This from the government that introduced Job Bridge.

222233 wrote: »

...wages shouldn't be free either!

Niether should hours worked.

wallywhittle

222233 wrote: »

So I should choose to let HARD WORKING people struggle on low wages to support MY lifestyle when I am perfectly capable of going out working and mind that 2 jobs if needed at times

Life is short and i'm going to take this lot for all they've got.

222233

Hermy wrote: »

.

Niether should hours worked.

Well if you are drawing benefits without valid reason, it is essentially a FREE wage at the taxpayer/states expense

Bongalongherb

222233 wrote: »

Anyone who is able to work should be working full stop. People who don't have a disability which means that they can't work should be forced to work the hours in community projects that make up their weekly payment! If "waters not free" then wages shouldn't be free either!

Emm... this is already the case if you don't know. They are forced to work in TUS/Community service/gateway/jobbridge and many others.

Mr_Muffin

Everyone should be given 1000 euro a week and the way no one will have to work.

222233

Bongalongherb wrote: »

Emm... this is already the case if you don't know. They are forced to work in TUS/Community service/gateway/jobbridge and many others.

Not at all FORCED know people who got calls didn't do the work, still getting weekly benefits, true story.

PeteFalk78

Able bodied and able minded people who are employable but choose to live their whole life on the dole are the scourge of this country.

They are parasites, by definition. I rightly look down on them as an underclass.

Noworries!

Decommodification of welfare, where people forget the product of welfare has to be paid for. It leads to a dependence on welfare and entitlement culture. However seeing as the welfare state is struggling now, it won't be much longer until welfare gets a radical shake up!

mfceiling

wallywhittle wrote: »

Life is short and i'm going to take this lot for all they've got.

By this lot you mean people who work (taxpayers).

wallywhittle

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Able bodied and able minded people who are employable but choose to live their whole life on the dole are the scourge of this country.

They are parasites, by definition. I rightly look down on them as an underclass.

It's my life, it's not my fault the government give me free money to live the good life.

222233

wallywhittle wrote: »

It's my life, it's not my fault the government give me free money to live the good life.

WOW . There really are no words... "the government", really what about the tax payer???

KomradeBishop

If people want to get rid of the genuine dole scroungers, then the first thing you have to do is identify them. How, exactly?

Well this is how: A government jobs program, which employs all of the unemployed in public-works/infrastructural projects - then, anyone still left on unemployment payments, will be easy to identify as either taking the piss, or unable to work for other (potentially genuine reasons).

Demonizing all of the unemployed now, absent full employment or a public works program that can bring full employment, is highly ignorant and generalizing in an extremely bigoted way.

PeteFalk78

222233 wrote: »

WOW . There really are no words... "the government", really what about the tax payer???

Don't feed the.......

wallywhittle

222233 wrote: »

WOW . There really are no words... "the government", really what about the tax payer???

I've seen a flaw in the system and I CHOOSE to exploit it.

Bongalongherb

222233 wrote: »

Not at all FORCED know people who got calls didn't do the work, still getting weekly benefits, true story.

Not entirely true I must add. If they refuse to work they lose €44. If they continue not to comply on the next scheme they are given, then they are cut-off.

222233

wallywhittle wrote: »

I've seen a flaw in the system and I CHOOSE to exploit it.

Enlighten me, if every working person chooses to see this flaw maybe we can all exploit it together and share that money out as our weeks wages...

To Elland Back

wallywhittle wrote: »

Life is short and i'm going to take this lot for all they've got.

Seriously mate, if you don't get off this interweb thing and do some study, your Junior Cert is going down the pan. 4 more weeks

chicorytip

Those in receipt of unemployment assistance/benefit must provide documentary evidence that they are genuinely seeking work or else face the prospect of having their "dole" reduced/cut.
I just don't see how it's possible to claim, therefore, that there is some kind of permanently scrounging underclass who gain money from the state in return for doing absolutely nothing.

Bongalongherb

And johnny mcgurk who is scared stiff of work... I blame the Dubliners.

222233

chicorytip wrote: »

Those in receipt of unemployment assistance/benefit must provide documentary evidence that they are genuinely seeking work or else face the prospect of having their "dole" reduced/cut.
I just don't see how it's possible to claim, therefore, that there is some kind of permanently scrounging underclass who gain money from the state in return for doing absolutely nothing.

All that is is a form where you write where you asked for work.... anyone can fill that in, might never have even applied

G_R

chicorytip wrote: »

Those in receipt of unemployment assistance/benefit must provide documentary evidence that they are genuinely seeking work or else face the prospect of having their "dole" reduced/cut.
I just don't see how it's possible to claim, therefore, that there is some kind of permanently scrounging underclass who gain money from the state in return for doing absolutely nothing.

In my last job I had someone ask me if I could give them a letter saying they applied for a job, they went for an interview and were unsuccessful. Didn't give them the letter, obviously, but I'm sure there's some who would, so there's definitely a way round it!

[Deleted User]

Good point....... I'm a fully qualified plumber and now I use my skills and expertise to sweep a warehouse and check orders! Don't get me wrong..... Pride is a hard thing to swallow......but i would rather swallow my pride and my family swallow an actual dinner, rather then them wait for me to find work!!!!!!!!

jackofalltrades

His comments are spot on.
Don't understand why people are getting so wound up about what he said.
There are plenty of people quite happy to live on the dole.

Don't believe me, go down to your local DSP office during sign on day.
They'll be the ones in the full tracksuit, possibly with their hands down their pants for added effect.
Happy as larry having loud conversations, skipping the queue and generally not giving a **** about anyone else.

Cold War Kid

My name is URL wrote: »

Some people are simply unemployable for whatever reason.

Yep.

I don't buy into the idea that there are throngs of people who just choose to sit at home all day, every day because they're too lazy to work.

I didn't before, but I do now (well not "throngs", but I've gone from believing this was a virtually non existent group, to believing it's a more significant minority now) because of the area I work in for the last six years (not the social welfare btw!) You would not believe the self entitlement, it's everyone else's fault, "I know my rights! (But not my responsibilities)" attitudes out there. I do think, to be fair, that Noonan was referring to them and not to just any job-seeker (i.e. the majority of people on the dole).

But as you allude to above, much of this (I wouldn't say all of it) is due to certain conditions: being raised to think that way, not having the same opportunities growing up ("We all have the same opportunities" is cobblers) - a cycle that would ideally be broken out of, but things aren't always ideal. People are exposed to this environment from infancy and throughout the years when they're being shaped as people. It's not an excuse but it's a reason.

222233

jackofalltrades wrote: »

His comments are spot on.
Don't understand why people are getting so wound up about what he said.
There are plenty of people quite happy to live on the dole.

Don't believe me, go down to your local DSP office during sign on day.
They'll be the ones in the full tracksuit, possibly with their hands down their pants for added effect.
Happy as larry having loud conversations, skipping the queue and generally not giving a **** about anyone else.

There shouldn't be an option for people capable of working and not trying to get work to LIVE on ANYTHING they are not contributing to.

Free healthcare, Free childcare, council houses everything in between and you can actually get money towards a suit if its for an interview... because thats progress.

I didn't see the government paying for my masters or 3rd level education.. that was progress on my part.

Bongalongherb

jackofalltrades wrote: »

His comments are spot on.
Don't understand why people are getting so wound up about what he said.
There are plenty of people quite happy to live on the dole.

Don't believe me, go down to your local DSP office during sign on day.
They'll be the ones in the full tracksuit, possibly with their hands down their pants for added effect.
Happy as larry having loud conversations, skipping the queue and generally not giving a **** about anyone else.

They are just a small minority that don't care either way. For folk that have kids... well then they get the full whack including an abode to live in for nothing basically. But a single person with no kids will only get €100 - €188 per week to live on and feed themselves as well as rent etc...

It's quite obvious that a person with kids will take in a decent amount of cash and in this are saying to themselves... why would I work 40 hours a week for around the same money I get already with free time all the time to do as I please.

Put wages up to a living wage and you will see many folk going back to employment. What's the living wage now ? €11.46 or something.

meeeeh

chicorytip wrote: »

Those in receipt of unemployment assistance/benefit must provide documentary evidence that they are genuinely seeking work or else face the prospect of having their "dole" reduced/cut.
I just don't see how it's possible to claim, therefore, that there is some kind of permanently scrounging underclass who gain money from the state in return for doing absolutely nothing.

That is very naive. I had to suffer through quite a few job interviews with people who had no intention talking a job but had to do interview to stay on the dole. Saying that there are people who can do more damage with their disinterested approach at work than if they spend whole life on dole.

We are in sector that was badly bit by recession. It is hard to watch people who spent decades working struggling to find work. But I also dealt with people who have aversion to work, any kind of work.

meeeeh

Bongalongherb wrote: »

They are just a small minority that don't care either way. For folk that have kids... well then they get the full whack including an abode to live in for nothing basically. But a single person with no kids will only get €100 - €188 per week to live on and feed themselves as well as rent etc...

It's quite obvious that a person with kids will take in a decent amount of cash and in this are saying to themselves... why would I work 40 hours a week for around the same money I get already with free time all the time to do as I please.

Put wages up to a living wage and you will see many folk going back to employment. What's the living wage now ? €11.46 or something.

Or decrease certain welfare contributions. Very often people need way more than living wage to be actually incetivised to go back to work.

Free Hat

Would it be demeaning to force people who are out of work to contribute to improving their local areas or something equally positive?

I guess I'm a fascist or something for even suggesting it.