Yara Old Backyard wrote: » And the ones that are actually private (like Yeats in Galway) are on very very good money and in reality their hours are similar enough to teachers in normal school.
stefanovich wrote: » Ireland ranks extremely high for secondary education though. I think 7th or 9th in the world?
ardmacha wrote: » Which countries (as distinct from individual institutions) have higher rankings? And there is a lack of funding, fees are one quarter of those in England.
Geuze wrote: » Young teachers have taken 3-4 paycuts. They do an important job.I'm sure we'd want the educators of our children to be high quality, wouldn't we? A society should be proud to pay high wages to teachers, sure you'd want to be doing that. Now, they should be productive and accountable, yes.
Gebgbegb wrote: » Actually, how much do private teachers get paid in Yeats College?
Iwasfrozen wrote: » Great for all the multi nationals who want to employ leaving cert students. Not great for anything else.
Iwasfrozen wrote: » What do you mean what countries have higher rankings? The table ranks universities. .
Iwasfrozen wrote: » We are proud of them but 30k starting increasing up to 50k base salary is plenty for them.
jcon1913 wrote: » When Intel compared Ireland to Scotland, they looked at education levels amongst 8 years olds, Ireland came out tops. Not sure if it has changed ( waits for rush of teachers at the keyboards ) but we have a good education system here as far as I can see.
BoatMad wrote: » several countries like france have already punched a few holes in that
Yara Old Backyard wrote: » To be honest I don't have an exact number however I was chatting to one teacher I know and when he started out teaching about 10 years ago he had a few hours in a school and then worked 3 days a week in yeats and he was getting paid more then now with many year of Our skilled graduates are rugularly cited as one of the reason why companies setup here. The university ranking system is a poor measure of how good a university is at producing skilled graduates. Its also heavily weighted towards historically good universities which it being very difficult to actually move around on the ranking scale. It isn't though, 50k is a very poor salary ceiling for a job as important and as skilled as teaching. But there is no convincing you and your ilk of this you would rather ignore the difficulty and importance of the job and instead focus on the fiction that's being sprouted in this thread.
househero wrote: » Growth has been poor as the gov (the countries biggest employer) hasn't increased wages in 7 years. This is the truth
jcon1913 wrote: » And yet there are lots of people interested in teaching? Everyone thinks that their job is the most important in the world, and teachers are no different.
barneystinson wrote: » What's your job jcon, and I'll tell you exactly where it rates in importance...?!
jmayo wrote: » KB's argument is that it is now cheap to borrow so why not, and that a country is not like a business or a person. Yes a country is not like those, but as the likes of Greece has found out it doesn't matter in the end when you overborrow and can't repay. You are still a bad bet. Much like the person needing the dodgy moneylender charging extortionate rates, the country looking defualt in the face has to pay huge rates to anyone willing to lend to them. And the more debt we add, no matter how low the rates and how sustainable it currently is, the more we are at risk down the road. Hit a rocky growth patch, lose some of those multinationals due to tax laws changing elsewhere and we are heading for trouble. What would happen if we were suddenly back at 10 billion in current budget deficit and have even higher debt to GDP ? Who would lent to us and at what rates ? And what type of austerity would have to be put in place to pull the deficit back to exceptable EU levels ?
Geuze wrote: » The HR function in the HSE has 2,000 staff and needs 800. I don't think we need more staff there.
Mr. teddywinkles wrote: » I meant hire in the areas that's needed.
Yara Old Backyard wrote: » The university ranking system is a poor measure of how good a university is at producing skilled graduates. Its also heavily weighted towards historically good universities which it being very difficult to actually move around on the ranking scale.
It isn't though, 50k is a very poor salary ceiling for a job as important and as skilled as teaching. But there is no convincing you and your ilk of this you would rather ignore the difficulty and importance of the job and instead focus on the fiction that's being sprouted in this thread.
Yara Old Backyard wrote: » To be honest I don't have an exact number however I was chatting to one teacher I know and when he started out teaching about 10 years ago he had a few hours in a school and then worked 3 days a week in yeats and he was getting paid more than now with many years of full time service.
jcon1913 wrote: » Would you imagine that? Based on experience? Teachers in private education work longer hours than their public sectors colleagues as they are paid more.
jcon1913 wrote: » S o for example they are expected to give extra grinds, e.g. in private schools it would not be unusual for teachers to give extra classes in the run-up to Irish / French / Spanish orals.
jcon1913 wrote: » They would be expected to put in extra hours by training a sports team, etc. Simples
Gebgbegb wrote: » Where are you getting that nonsense from? I'm familiar with both systems. Nearly all the teachers in BOTH systems begin work when they get home. And on the weekend. I'm not giving the beal bocht but you are doing a misservice to the teachers who break their back to go out of their way voluntarily for students in both systems Same in public system btw... actually you may find students in private system can easily afford one to one grinds outside school. Actually most of the fee paying sector employ coaches (paripatetic staff) to do these also. With the lack of jobs in teaching any new recruit in ANY system is expected to take on extra curricular. And btw a lot of us do it because we enjoy it, despite ever getting little thanks for it. not so simples.
jcon1913 wrote: » So why do the schools that charge fees pay their teachers more? It would make no sense. I suggest that either: (a) they work longer hours (b) they are better at their job I appreciate that teachers do extra work, thats not the point. although it does prove one of my earlier points that there are plenty of applicants for posts in teaching. So the salaries must be attractive enough for those applicants. I'm not even going to answer the points about hours after work, I dont want to get into teacher bashing. Some teachers do extra work lets leave it at that.
jcon1913 wrote: » I appreciate that teachers do extra work, thats not the point. although it does prove one of my earlier points that there are plenty of applicants for posts in teaching. So the salaries must be attractive enough for those applicants. I'm not even going to answer the points about hours after work, I dont want to get into teacher bashing. Some teachers do extra work lets leave it at that.
Gebgbegb wrote: » Here's my story. 4 yrs in college. 1 year Hdip (it's been changed to 2 years self funded now). Masters of my own volition (self funded (with some tax relief though!). Postgrad on top. 10 years teaching... only got CID in the last 5. =43k Gross
Gebgbegb wrote: » Pension system has now changed to career average instead of defined benefit so ignore what eddie hobbs says.
Gebgbegb wrote: » Anyone who want's to become a teacher now should be prepared to be doing it as a part time hobby.
Gebgbegb wrote: » I have absolutely no idea what you are on about or what your friend is spinning you. At the very best privately paid teachers in fee paying schools are paid on a par with dept paid teachers (minus pension entitlements)... but from what I hear talking to other privately paid teachers, those days are coming to an end because labour is cheap and any teacher will take whatever contract is thrown at them. Privately paid teaching is an albatross that any sane teacher would do well to get away from. Teachers in the fee paying and voluntary non fee paying all went to the same teacher training colleges. There are excellent teachers I know of who have written text books/revision books/oversee examiners for exams etc in the public system as well as the fee paying system system. Maybe you are confusing things with private 'grind schools' which are a whole different kettle of fish all together. (I've worked in those too BTW and it's the same ding dong... (much the same pay/ no pension) most of the money is made through revision courses or extra grinds. It's because they listen to idiots here or Eddie Hobbs and their Mammy who think "Ah shur anyone would want to be mad not to be a teacher". Here's my story. 4 yrs in college. 1 year Hdip (it's been changed to 2 years self funded now). Masters of my own volition (self funded (with some tax relief though!). Postgrad on top. 10 years teaching... only got CID in the last 5. =43k Gross Pension system has now changed to career average instead of defined benefit so ignore what eddie hobbs says. Don't get me wrong, the holidays are a definite perk and if you're a woman then mat leave is better than private sector. Anyone who want's to become a teacher now should be prepared to be doing it as a part time hobby. ANyhow's that's for a different thread. Yes some teachers do extra work... some don't. Fee paying/privately paid or voluntary/public it doesn't matter which it is.
Gebgbegb wrote: » I have absolutely no idea what you are on about or what your friend is spinning you. At the very best privately paid teachers in fee paying schools are paid on a par with dept paid teachers (minus pension entitlements)... but from what I hear talking to other privately paid teachers, those days are coming to an end because labour is cheap and any teacher will take whatever contract is thrown at them. Privately paid teaching is an albatross that any sane teacher would do well to get away from. Teachers in the fee paying and voluntary non fee paying all went to the same teacher training colleges. There are excellent teachers I know of who have written text books/revision books/oversee examiners for exams etc in the public system as well as the fee paying system system. Maybe you are confusing things with private 'grind schools' which are a whole different kettle of fish all together. (I've worked in those too BTW and it's the same ding dong... (much the same pay/ no pension) most of the money is made through revision courses or extra grinds. It's because they listen to idiots here or Eddie Hobbs and their Mammy who think "Ah shur anyone would want to be mad not to be a teacher".Here's my story. 4 yrs in college. 1 year Hdip (it's been changed to 2 years self funded now). Masters of my own volition (self funded (with some tax relief though!). Postgrad on top. 10 years teaching... only got CID in the last 5. =43k Gross Pension system has now changed to career average instead of defined benefit so ignore what eddie hobbs says. Don't get me wrong, the holidays are a definite perk and if you're a woman then mat leave is better than private sector. Anyone who want's to become a teacher now should be prepared to be doing it as a part time hobby. ANyhow's that's for a different thread. Yes some teachers do extra work... some don't. Fee paying/privately paid or voluntary/public it doesn't matter which it is.
jcon1913 wrote: » Ill pick you up one point only. Teachers in fee paying schools are paid more. I have seen the P60s so its all official. Maybe youre thinking about the grind schools - I have no idea what people in Bruce college / Leeson St whatever are paid. You make some good points about the qualifications etc. although most teachers I know are happy with their lot. Id have no quibble with hours salaries and so on, I chose not to teach ( sound of mammies all over Ireland sighing ).
barneystinson wrote: » OT I know, but jcon1913, is your username a reference to James Connolly and the 1913 Lockout?! If so it's one of the most ironic usernames I've seen in a while...
jcon1913 wrote: » Barney youre definately spending too much time on boards😄😄😄 But you are right Too exhausted catching criminals / fellow citizens to sleep?
not yet wrote: » I for one will be spending my well earned pay restoration on a villa in Turkey..
Tzardine wrote: » I am going to hire a helicopter for my kids communion. That's when you know the good times are back.
KomradeBishop wrote: » You're getting stuck focusing on the overall quantity of the debt again, when what matters is the interest-payments-to-GDP. Greece has an interest rate pushing 25+% recently, Ireland has it's lowest interest rate ever at around 0.65%. The overall size of the debt is not actually a very meaningful way to compare countries debt burdens, since it is the interest rate that matters. You're also assuming 'deficit spending forever' here, which is not what I proposed - if our interest rates become burdensome, that only affects rolling over debt from 10 years ago, and you can just stop borrowing/spending...
KomradeBishop wrote: » Posters here seem to have a bias for cherry-picking unrealistically worst-case scenarios, often showing a lack of understanding of how the debt works in the process.
KomradeBishop wrote: » I've been studying this stuff on/off for the last 4+ years, so I know what I'm talking about - I'm not missing any 'gotcha'-type minor details here, and when posters try to bring up such 'gotcha's, they don't seem to think them through (nor even check my previous posts where I've already rebutted them). That keeps discussion stalled at an unproductive level.
jmayo wrote: » This last line just screams out at me. Yep it is just that simple. As you are fond of telling us we are dealing with a country and not a business or a person. Suddenly putting a brake on a nation's spending/borrowing doesn't work that easily as has been evident in Europe over the last 4+ years.
jmayo wrote: » And the problem is you just appear to totally ignore some realistic worse case scenarios. It is like as if because it aint raining today you decide you don't need a raincoat for the rest of the summer. To a degree you remind me of those economists telling us we would have a soft landing and that property prices could not possibly crash.
jmayo wrote: » It is wise man who knows they don't know everything.
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