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Vaccines question

gar32

So after reading all the very long Trend. Which has been close.

Here we go again.

I have a 2 year old & a 8 month old.

They are not vaccinated at all. I don't read anti vaccine website. Watch youtube videos.

I stick to governmental, WHO and vaccine manufacturing web sites.

I want to but I am looking a risks of both sides..

1st of all vaccines have a time limit on most of them 5 to 10 years.
Boosters ? Did you have them?
My children came in to the world without sicknesses.
A large percentage of people going around without booster protection.

2nd Autism may not be proven that there is a link but its happens at the same time as MMR.
New research points to problems in the Gut. Diet changes have help children with Autism.
I will get my children single Measles vaccine when I can.

3rd Aluminium poisoning.
The levels in vaccines are much higher then is considered safe in say hospital drips.
Research is great if its looking at the right things.

4th Side effects V risks. I know vaccines have gotten us to a much safer world but Polio. Does my child need it now?
Chances of it get out of the countries its trapped in? Fingers crossed its gone forever.

5th Lots of people say listen too a doctor. They know best.
I have asked my children doctors and he did not know about vaccines as much as I would like.

I want the best for my children but also the best for all children.
Vaccines are great but there is always room for improvement.

I will start a late vaccine plan for my kids when I feel they are old enough to have even less risk from vaccines.

Does anyone know where I would find info for late starting of vaccines ?

Thanks in advance.

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LegacyUser

i think if someone disregards a piece of research without, it seems, even reading the paper, checking funding sources and authors then we really have a problem.

There is many research papers showing having had measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox decreases risk of many different cancers and brain tumors.
here is some, please read them, subject them to analysis, check the authors etc. There is many more available for anyone to find if they are interested.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21792750

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22017482

http://cancerimmunolres.aacrjournals.org/content/2/3/263.full

Vaccines are an extremely important part of healthcare but we are wrong if we think that scientists know it all, in fact there are many aspects of our immune system which we know little about. Thankfully science keeps going to find out what we dont know. We are learning how previous "facts" are now incorrect and constantly improving our knowledge and healthcare practices due to new research explaining previously unknowns and putting right previous mistakes. That is the nature of science.

Here in Ireland we have very high uptake of the vaccine schedule, all vaccines on it meet or exceed herd immunity levels. Most cases of say measles, mumps which are now occurring are in older age groups suggesting vaccine immunity has worn off, the small number of children who them get these illnesses probably haven't gained adequate immunity from the vaccine or were vaccinated. All of this info can be found on hpsc.ie which lists cases of infectious diseases, its worth noting that not all cases listed have been confirmed by a lab so there is a margin of error, you should also take into account cases which have not been diagnosed or reported to the hpsc by a GP

skallywag

unbiased?? wrote: »

very interesting piece here on how having mumps may actually decrease your risk of ovarian cancer

I would rank this up there with the smoking may prevent alzheimer's topic ... i.e. may well be true but still certainly not an argument in favour of smoking!

LegacyUser

apologies neyite for duplicate posts.

very interesting piece here on how having mumps may actually decrease your risk of ovarian cancer.

http://www.ovariancancer.org/2010/06/25/mumps-and-ovarian-cancer-modern-interpretation-of-an-historic-association/

cyning

From my point of view, having a child who gets sick after vaccinations, I (and either of her GPs, the nurse, my Paedeatrician and her ENT specialist (relevant because she normally gets ear infections or tonsilitis) ) think it is still safer for her to be vaccinated than not. There's a mumps outbreak in Kerry at the moment. I am terrified at the thoughts of her picking it up. She isn't strong, and quite frankly it makes me sick to my stomach at the thought of her picking it up.

I'm waiting for them to get chicken pox at the moment after being exposed. It means they can't see their grandad for 3 weeks because all the anti rejection drugs etc after a heart transplant makes him immunocompromised. He's 17 years post transplant now so isn't as strong as he used to be either. If one of them gets it and the other doesn't it will be another 3 weeks after the 1st ones spots scab over before we can see him again. If we were exposed to measles etc and brought it into the house... Mumps can be a 12-25 day incubation period.

I actually don't hold as strong opinions as some here do... I do believe anti vaxxers think they are doing the best for their kids. The problem I have, is that that decision could really awfully affect my family. I just think if you have any doubts read: most credible peer reviewed papers supports vaccination. National health services support it. I just think the risks of not vaccinating are far too high.

pwurple

micosoft wrote: »

Having worked in the developing world I have seen these diseases first hand. I am appalled by those who reject their social obligation to society and their own offspring.

It is interesting that vaccination is so good, that it has actually become a victim of it's own success. The memory of how bad these diseases are is completely gone in a couple of generations.

The saddest example ever of "First World Problems".

SF12

As a matter of interest OP, if you decided to go on holidays to somewhere that required vaccines against malaria, tetanus, Hepatitus etc (like South America, Asia etc),....would you vaccinate your kids then?And would you vaccinate yourself?

micosoft

Really simple answer here. Unless you can show your child's Vaccination Cert's you shouldn't get Children's Allowance. Quid pro quo - put other peoples children at risk you don't get social payments. This would eliminate all but the most rabid anti vaccinators.

Having worked in the developing world I have seen these diseases first hand. I am appalled by those who reject their social obligation to society and their own offspring.

LegacyUser

gar32 wrote: »

Lazygirl. Just to put you at easy my children and I live in Germany

That explains a great deal. The anti-vaccination movement there is big and strong, frighteningly so. Every single point you raised is textbook anti-vaccination.

I hope for your or rather your children's sake you don't live in/plan to go to Berlin where there is currently a huge outbreak of the measles. One little boy is dead already.

If you speak German, you should therefore be well aware of the answers to ALL of the points you have raised given the current media coverage in Germany due to this very outbreak. You don't need the internet. TV, radio, papers - they all go into all the details, over and over and over again. If you didn't get your answers by now, I honestly doubt you will here.

PS. I'm German and find the Irish in general much more resilient to the whole anti-vaccination-claptrap. Long may it last!

skallywag

gar32 wrote: »

Come on you have Google too.

I Googled vaccines official leflet

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=tqUaVdjoC4znaJD1gvAJ&url=http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf&ved=0CCgQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNG1yMl07u3zE9T_P0WSORzTCUJg1A&sig2=25BdMVT0FKNadNU9wR0ztw

Where in this document is it saying that '1 in 100 having serious problems after DTaP vaccine' ?

ThisRegard

Sligo1 wrote: »

OPs OH is not a GP. Rosy Posys (another poster) OH is .

Ah! Tis all very confusing!!

Sligo1

ThisRegard wrote: »

A lot doesn't make sense. OP said they're not taking info from the internet, but that's exactly what's happening. And that they're not happy with info from their GP, but their OH is one?

OPs OH is not a GP. Rosy Posys (another poster) OH is

gar32

skallywag wrote: »

The chances of
predicting 6 numbers correctly from a set of 45 is roughly 1 in 8 million. But I do not appear to be getting your point about how this is relevant to the discussion?

Can you please point us towards your source of information on this?

Come on you have Google too.

I Googled vaccines official leflet

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=tqUaVdjoC4znaJD1gvAJ&url=http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101580.pdf&ved=0CCgQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNG1yMl07u3zE9T_P0WSORzTCUJg1A&sig2=25BdMVT0FKNadNU9wR0ztw

ThisRegard

A lot doesn't make sense. OP said they're not taking info from the internet, but that's exactly what's happening. And that they're not happy with info from their GP, but their OH is one?

Sligo1

gar32 wrote: »

Someone help me with the maths here. The lottery is won 52 times a year. How likely are we to win? Case numbers of vaccine related diseases a low thanks to vacancies. Number of children with side effect as per vaccine manufacturers documents seem high in comparison. 1 in 100 having serious problems after DTaP vaccine.

Its not a clear a case to just get all vaccine. With each one is risk. The mine field of info is not helping me.

You acknowledge the fact that these terrible illnesses are of low incidence due to vaccines which is a good start. But just because they are of low incidence now that does not mean we can just stop vaccinating. Well not at least until they are completely eradicated (eg. Small pox). A good example would be measles. This was nearly eradicated a few years ago. But due to people not vaccinating there has now been recent outbreaks.

Also to note, perhaps you are looking at the short term effects here of not vaccinating when the likelihood of contracting a disease is quite low at the minute. All it takes is a bunch of people with these same ideas as yourself to contribute to other outbreaks of preventable diseases. And these may not occur in our lifetime but later on. It's difficult to perhaps see this now as I say while diseases are of quite low incidence. But what about your children's children (your grandkids) or your great grandkids. years down the line of everyone decides not to vaccinate and begin to share yor ideas... The results could be catastrophic! We could be back in those terrible times years ago when so so many children were dying of these terrible illnesses. And this is a possibility if more people choose not to vaccinate. It has been proven that vaccination will prevent these times Of old. And you yourself have even acknowledged this. But just because you think the coast is clear now... You really need tonthink outside the box. What about your children's children....

skallywag

gar32 wrote: »

Someone help me with the maths here. The lottery is won 52 times a year. How likely are we to win?

The chances of predicting 6 numbers correctly from a set of 45 is roughly 1 in 8 million. But I do not appear to be getting your point about how this is relevant to the discussion?

gar32 wrote: »

1 in 100 having serious problems after DTaP vaccine

Can you please point us towards your source of information on this?

gar32

micosoft wrote: »

Seems to be the new defence. How do you know that Lazygirl does not live in Germany also?

She doesn't live near me. Just read her past post if your interested

gar32

So this is a war on diseases. The kids are in the fight and there a losses on both sides. There a lists of people who have sick or worse from vaccines. Doctors have systems in place to report side effects. I feel a lot of children have sicknesses after vaccination but its put down to something going around.

Someone help me with the maths here. The lottery is won 52 times a year. How likely are we to win? Case numbers of vaccine related diseases a low thanks to vacancies. Number of children with side effect as per vaccine manufacturers documents seem high in comparison. 1 in 100 having serious problems after DTaP vaccine.

Its not a clear a case to just get all vaccine. With each one is risk. The mine field of info is not helping me.

skallywag

lazygal wrote: »

I asked my GP about this. That's when he told me of the practice he ran a mile from. His reading had shown that the efficacy of spreading out the jabs isn't the same as the combined shots for a variety of reasons, one of which can be lack of parental follow up.

Thanks for that info.

I am still left wondering though is there any genuine evidence that separating the vaccines will help reduces incidents of autism. It understood this to be somehow implied from DublinWriter's post.

Neyite

Mod:

Unbiased, you only need to submit your post once for approval, as soon as a mod sees it, they will activate it. Alternatively, you may wish to register an account and that way your posts are visible immediately.

Sligo1

Rosy Posy wrote: »

We choose not to vaccinate our children, which tbh is something that I tend to keep to myself online at least as there is a lot of vitriol out there.

Rosy posy, just as a matter of interest (and I'm not "attacking" you here). But why do you keep the fact that you haven't vaccinated your children to yourself? Do you not think parents who do vaccinate their kids should be allowed to make a judgment call as to whether they want to allow their kids in your children's company? I understand you might think this may isolate you or your children in some way... But don't you think that as you have made yor decision against vaccines, that you should allow other parents to make parenting decisions in regards to the safety of their children associating with yours? "Are your kids vaccinated?" Isn't really a question that comes up in parent to parent day-to-day conversations and I'm sure you would be honest if you were ever asked? But do you not think it's important to make others aware of this fact if you know they are pro-vaccination and want to keep their kids away From any potential threats to these illnesses? This is a genuine question btw, and I'd be really interested to know.

lazygal

micosoft wrote: »

Seems to be the new defence. How do you know that Lazygirl does not live in Germany also?

I wonder do that poster#s children ever travel by air, subjecting others or being at risk of what's circulated through air systems on planes? Or travel on a ferry or train to other countries, coming into contact with others en route?

lazygal

skallywag wrote: »

Has separating the vaccines been shown to lower the frequency of autism?

I asked my GP about this. That's when he told me of the practice he ran a mile from. His reading had shown that the efficacy of spreading out the jabs isn't the same as the combined shots for a variety of reasons, one of which can be lack of parental follow up.

pwurple

Unbiased?? wrote: »

I have to laugh at the poster who said to do a course by Paul offit. I don't think you could get more biased if you tried. Dr Offit whose income comes from vaccines, who has his own vaccine

He's an immunologist. That is indeed what immunologists do for a living, they create vaccines. Who is better qualified to discuss how they work except for the people who create them?

micosoft

gar32 wrote: »

Lazygirl. Just to put you at easy my children and I live in Germany

Seems to be the new defence. How do you know that Lazygirl does not live in Germany also?

gar32

Lazygirl. Just to put you at easy my children and I live in Germany

ForestFire

I found these interesting and worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

http://themetapicture.com/angry-scientist-finds-uneducated-internet-comment-and-delivers-badass-response/

Also Op to say you do not look at the anti sites. Did you get this information from governmental, WHO and vaccine manufacturing web sites.

1st of all vaccines have a time limit on most of them 5 to 10 years.

2nd Autism may not be proven that there is a link but its happens at the same time as MMR.

3rd Aluminium poisoning.
The levels in vaccines are much higher then is considered safe in say hospital drips.
Research is great if its looking at the right things.

4th Side effects V risks. I know vaccines have gotten us to a much safer world but Polio. Does my child need it now?

Polio is very rare/gone due to vaccines, if everone decided not to vacinate for it I guess we would need it??

LegacyUser

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1303164

Dr Offit is the maker of this vaccine, he profits from it in the same way people said that Wakefield would profit from single measles vaccine. So it seems contradictory to me to label Wakefield as a fraud, biased etc because he was going to profit but then not apply the same standards to Offit?? I don't undestand that mentailty. And then to say that Offit has 1000s of papers on vaccines, well so does Wakefield, published in peer reviewed journals.
Both of these people have major vested interests and neither can be seen as unbiased or independent. The difference is some ignore this part of Offit because he is saying what you want to hear and he says it in a very strong way

skallywag

DublinWriter wrote: »

As a father of a young child with autism, if I had the chance again I'd try and have three separate vaccinations spaced over 6-8 rather than the three in one

Has separating the vaccines been shown to lower the frequency of autism?

Jerrica

Unbiased?? wrote: »

I have to laugh at the poster who said to do a course by Paul offit. I don't think you could get more biased if you tried. Dr Offit whose income comes from vaccines, who has his own vaccine, one which has been shown to increase the risk of serious gastro problems, twisting of the gut.
I agree with the mod who said to discuss things factually rather than emotionally. It's also very important that info come from unbiased, independent sources and Offit is certainly not independent or unbiased

Why not back up your Big Lie claims with factual sources so. You're speaking about Dr. Paul Offit who has published over 100 peer reviewed articles, spearheaded the rotavirus vaccine which saves billions in economic loss through parental sick days and is one of the world's most consulted experts on vaccines right?

DublinWriter

As a father of a young child with autism, if I had the chance again I'd try and have three separate vaccinations spaced over 6-8 rather than the three in one.

In my ignorance, I always thought that vaccinations were basically dead, or nearly-dead bacteria that when introduced would allow the antibody system to build up a resistance.

Turns out the pharma companies can put a lot more stuff in there, too.

Vaccination is critical, but do your homework.