Kermit.de.frog wrote: » I often wondered why those who take the ultimate risk of setting up a business were penalised in the form of no welfare safety net whilst there are people in this country who go on the dole at 18 never having worked a day in their lives with no intention of working and are content to stay there as a life style choice. I think this is LONG overdue.http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fg-plans-to-give-the-selfemployed-same-dole-as-paye-staff-31095630.html Hopefully if it comes about this encourages more people to to set up their own business in the knowledge they have something to fall back on other than destitution.
bpmurray wrote: » Definitely - I have friends who have worked running their own small business all their lives, paying tax and all the other charges (including water - despite Brendan Ogle's claims, businesses have paid for water for many years). After they were caught by the downturn created by the PAYE miscreants in the banks, their business failed and they have not been covered by any safety net.
cormie wrote: » There's start up schemes and grants available to help anyone with even the most basic of ideas that have potential to turn a profit to give them a kick start. Other avenues such as bank loans are an option. If the banks won't touch you, integrity can play a part with financial help from friends or family. If none of these work, then it might just take a little longer, but it's definitely possible.
kidneyfan wrote: » No. There is a scheme called Back to Work Enterprise Allowance that allows people to keep their dole while setting up a business.
bjork wrote: » That's great, will they get free houses too like the baby factories?
bjork wrote: » Good Morning Shrap No drink, just trying to flesh out the finer details of what this will entail
bjork wrote: » If the other "baby parent" is dead, then yes, those "single parents" should be supported. Otherwise the two parents should be paying. Unless you're going to tell me it was a test tube baby out of stem cells with only one parent?
Shrap wrote: » Off the dole, it's looking quite impossible at the moment tbh. Some of you may remember me talking about trying to go ahead with a small business this year, but after a meeting with the social welfare, it's looking like too big a risk for me unless this option comes in. .........
cormie wrote: » Is there no option that allows you work for yourself, even for 2/3 days a week, even if it might cut your social for these days? What if you were to come up with another earner that would give you an instant return that wouldn't need as much investment to start so you could be earning money immediately with very little risk and then put the profits after your family expenses towards the saving for equipment? Seems a disgrace you're "not allowed" do what you mention above. Is there no workaround or compromising with your local social welfare officer?
bjork wrote: » Why should the state pay for you bad decisions? It would be terrible if you had to sell a few acres to pay for your children :rolleyes::rolleyes:
cillit_bang wrote: » I thought the whole idea is that if you are self-employed and you voluntarily pay PRSI, then you get the welfare benefits? Why should you get the welfare benefits for nothing? The whole idea of the added risk is also the added reward of setting up a business. That is a decision you take, so if you become rich from it, you fully deserve it. That is the game you decide to play. No one forces you to become self-employed.
Shrap wrote: » You shouldn't get welfare benefits for nothing. You should get SW if you are not in a position to support yourself and your family. Not sure what you mean here. I would welcome the opportunity to start a business and make it work. There's no way I could take the risk to do this if I think there's any chance I wouldn't be earning enough p/w to support my kids in the same fashion I can now (which is minimal, btw). Nobody IS forcing me to be self employed at all, quite the opposite.
cormie wrote: » What if you were to come up with another earner that would give you an instant return that wouldn't need as much investment to start so you could be earning money immediately with very little risk and then put the profits after your family expenses towards the saving for equipment?
One eyed Jack wrote: » This changes not a whole lot then really, because self-employed people were always entitled to social welfare if they became unemployed? The lower USC is nice, but if those few measures are what they're hoping to be re-elected on after overseeing many self-employed people's businesses going to the wall in the last number of years, they'll be sorely disappointed. These measures should have been in place years ago to encourage entrepreneurial spirit in Ireland instead of being so focused on HPSU's and FDI. I'd imagine nobody left in business gives a shìt now what relief the Government gives after riding them sideways the last number of years.
cillit_bang wrote: » Why should you get the welfare benefits for nothing?
cillit_bang wrote: » Well the way I understand the social welfare is that a normal PAYE person has to be working a certain time to actually get the dole. So it isnt for nothing, during that whole time that worker would of had to pay PRSI. I fully agree with you, but you can't make it totally level. This would be a total disincentive for becoming a PAYE employee. If it is made totally level, then a ferocious amount of people would start becoming self-employed. Why become a permanent employee? Just become a contractor, now that you have SW protecting you.
OldNotWIse wrote: » Were they??
Shrap wrote: » Only since last year actually.
cillit_bang wrote: » Just become a contractor, now that you have SW protecting you.
Shrap wrote: » Sorry, didn't reply to this enough! This is exactly what I'm trying to do, but am unable to earn from my products to save for the equipment. Hopefully the SW will allow me to become self employed immediately so I can do this.
SEPT 23 1989 wrote: » Income Tax VAT generator for the state Employers contributions for staff Council Rates Water Rates nothing indeed
cormie wrote: » I was more thinking doing something completely different, even some kind of service etc where you don't need much of an investment at all to start earning and then put the profit towards the eventual plan with your equipment etc? I'm not sure on the whole "allowed to work" thing, it seems a little absurd, would be interesting to find out for sure. The hour/day thing I know to be true and it's absolutely ridiculous that it's done on a day to day basis so you can lose €30 odd euro social welfare for what could have only been €10 earned that day.
Macy0161 wrote: » Yes - there were entitled to the allowances, which are generally means tested.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » You need some form of capital first or a bloody good idea to sell to an investor otherwise it's highly unlikely a dole recipient could just set up their own business in fairness.
Effects wrote: » They can, it's called the Back to Work Scheme. They get to keep their dole for 12 months, then 75% for a further 12 months and they can also apply for various grants.
OldNotWIse wrote: » What do you mean by "the allowances"? As far as I can make out, the class of PRSI they paid exempted them from many.
