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Liffey quays cycle route: Detailed drawings online

monument

Here: http://www.dublincitycycling.ie/blog/?p=1479

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hmmm

bk wrote: »

That is why we need automatic cameras and fines, because what Irish people do respect is lost money out of their pocket and potentially losing their driving license.

I pass the Bus Gate every morning, and despite an almost permanent police presence these days there are still people driving through it and getting fined - many if not most are tourists and people who are simply lost. You'll have people driving into that yellow box by accident or because of lack of attention, even with fines being handed out.

hmmm wrote: »

I imagine it would work in Munich, but I've no confidence in anything in this country that depends on compliance from road users. This is what a bus will be faced with
https://goo.gl/maps/kw3zO

You are correct, Irish people have little respect for laws.

That is why we need automatic cameras and fines, because what Irish people do respect is lost money out of their pocket and potentially losing their driving license.

One €80 fine and 3 penalty points and the person will probably never do it again and you can bet they will moan about it to every person they know. Word of mouth passes fast amongst the Irish.

MrMorooka

That yellow box will simply not work, not without massive enforcement. As a result you will have buses unable to make the turn. Even without that, you will have buses queuing up for that stop at Smithfield. Not convinced there is enough room before the lights for the right turn to the quays to accommodate the number of buses, so you will have some buses queuing from the Smithfield side causing further aggro with the stop there. It's overall a pathetically low capacity solution, better suited for somewhere out in a suburb then on a bus trunk route.

You know what it looks like to me? They are just creating another Suffolk St.

cgcsb

Can I draw people's attention to section A Option 2, liffey street west. Buses have to take a sharp left off the quays where they will meet cars going around the Dublin Bike station head on. Is this a mistake?

hmmm

bk wrote: »

It can certainly be done well with the correct design.

I imagine it would work in Munich, but I've no confidence in anything in this country that depends on compliance from road users. This is what a bus will be faced with
https://goo.gl/maps/kw3zO

They're also proposing to keep the 2 lanes either way, so a bus and a cycle route has to be fitted down the narrow left hand side here
https://goo.gl/maps/Uopq5

cgcsb

On my walk to work this morning (I walk because it's faster than taking a bus) there was a near solid queue of double decker buses on the quays from the Church Street junction right up to the Capel Street junction, this is a regular feature of the quays at rush hour. Introducing a fairly complicated right and then left turning for a double decker bus will see that queue grow exponentially. How will this problem be addressed?

Surely it would be better to have buses only on the quays between Heuston and Church street with cars diverted through smithfield.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

In my industry, if I don't make plans for the rare events I lose my job.

Which is when people would cross the road and use the alternative footpath as they do at present if the river floods.

desertcircus

All cyclists on this route will need to join the route and turn off it. In both cases, a cycle lane on the river side is the inferior option; it's awkward to reach, and turning off will require crossing back across traffic in every case.

L1011

AngryLips wrote: »

Seriously?

Have you see what [little] activity goes on in that park?

It has been a no-go area for everything other than injectable drug users for a decade at this stage.

hmmm wrote: »

It'll only take a few cars to not pay any attention to the yellow box on Church Street, and we'll end up with 40 buses queuing to try and get onto Church street. If your public transport system is dependent on compliance at a yellow box junction, it won't work.

We really need to start introducing automatic red light cameras, that issue fines and penalty points automatically throughout the city.

Start with this junction and a few other high visibility locations like the bus gate and I think you will very quickly see the required change in behaviour.

The same cameras should also be extended throughout the Luas junctions.

Also I wouldn't make this a yellow box, instead paint the whole area in very high visibility red, with bus only signs, to make it clear it isn't a yellow box situation.

Obviously the traffic light sequence needs to also be programmed to give buses priority and as much time as they need and sequenced so that they can naturally flow onto Church street and then onto the quays without actually needing to stop on Church St.

It can certainly be done well with the correct design.

AngryLips

L1011 wrote: »

Without a severe crackdown on anti-social behaviour and then frequent policing afterwards, I'd not be happy to cycle along the edge of an extended Croppies Acre, unless its fenced in which case I'd not be too happy to cycle along what would be a tiny slice between a fence and the river... Catch 22 there.

Seriously?

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

Do you make plans on the basis of extremely rare events or the normal prevailing conditions?

In my industry, if I don't make plans for the rare events I lose my job.

LXFlyer

hmmm wrote: »

It'll only take a few cars to not pay any attention to the yellow box on Church Street, and we'll end up with 40 buses queuing to try and get onto Church street. If your public transport system is dependent on compliance at a yellow box junction, it won't work.

How many buses will be able to get onto Church street at a time? The present bus lane can be nose to tail of buses.

The turning circle is a concern too as mentioned. One bus gets stuck and the whole line stops.

I have to agree with this view.

In assessing Options 2 and 3, you do need to have some analysis of the numbers of buses that come down the North Quays during the morning rush hour:

For Dublin Bus alone there would be in the region of 90 buses coming down the Quays and another 5 coming down Church Street. Add to that Bus Eireann, Express Bus, Citylink, GoBus, JJ Kavanagh and all the other private operators.

When faced with that number of buses I really cannot believe that anyone can take seriously a proposal that suggests buses being diverted from a straight line route with sequenced traffic lights all along the route, to one that will require them to make a right turn across a yellow box junction to a short bus lane with traffic lights and make a left turn back onto the Quays at a signal controlled junction.

I just cannot see any sense in making what is the primary public transport route from west Dublin slower than it is at the moment, which is what Options 2 and 3 would do. There does need to be an improved environment for cyclists, but re-routing one of the busiest public transport corridors and making it slower is not the solution.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

If the existing building-side footpath is deemed sufficient why are they proposing to extend the boardwalk to compensate for losing the river-side footpath?

No - I said if the boardwalk was closed off they could move to the other side of the road. That is an extremely rare occurrence.

Do you make plans on the basis of extremely rare events or the normal prevailing conditions?

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

If the boardwalk had to be closed off (and how often does this happen?) then surely pedestrians can simply walk along the north side of the Quays as they do now - hardly a reason to dismiss the proposal surely?

It's not that hard to cross over the road.

If the existing building-side footpath is deemed sufficient why are they proposing to extend the boardwalk to compensate for losing the river-side footpath?

beauf

From casual observation cycle traffic turning right off the quays, is a lot less than that going straight ahead or left. So most of it, will be crossing back to the left side of the street at some point. Crossing the traffic and bus lanes.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

Option 1 would also require the same anti-social behaviour enforcement if they want pedestrians to use the boardwalk in preference - also, as the boardwalk is closed off with flood gates during exceptional tides this really can't be a runner.

If the boardwalk had to be closed off (and how often does this happen?) then surely pedestrians can simply walk along the north side of the Quays as they do now - hardly a reason to dismiss the proposal surely?

It's not that hard to cross over the road.

hmmm

It'll only take a few cars to not pay any attention to the yellow box on Church Street, and we'll end up with 40 buses queuing to try and get onto Church street. If your public transport system is dependent on compliance at a yellow box junction, it won't work.

How many buses will be able to get onto Church street at a time? The present bus lane can be nose to tail of buses.

The turning circle is a concern too as mentioned. One bus gets stuck and the whole line stops.

L1011

Without a severe crackdown on anti-social behaviour and then frequent policing afterwards, I'd not be happy to cycle along the edge of an extended Croppies Acre, unless its fenced in which case I'd not be too happy to cycle along what would be a tiny slice between a fence and the river... Catch 22 there.

However, Option 3 for A looks a lot less disruptive than I was expecting although I'd be concerned a little about the turning circle required Church Street back to the Quays with the volume of buses that'll be using it.

Option 1 would also require the same anti-social behaviour enforcement if they want pedestrians to use the boardwalk in preference - also, as the boardwalk is closed off with flood gates during exceptional tides this really can't be a runner.

monument

This will be of interest to anybody involved in the last thread discussing the option of putting buses into Smithfield. Detail of Smithfield stop:

And route onto Church Street and back to the quays: