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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

RoundBox11

Pairing Luke Marshall with Cave in the centre and Payne at fullback could be really good for the wolfhounds backline. They should know each other inside out. Then Gilroy could be on one wing.

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CatFromHue

^^^^^^^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9wcht-WIwE

thomond2006

"Here in the valley of the shadow of death"

[Deleted User]

One for the ref-whingers

total former

Deleted User wrote: »

One for the ref-whingers

F**k me, I'm embarrassed to be Irish this week.

wp_rathead

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One for the ref-whingers

Oh fnck off Balls!!!

molloyjh

Deleted User wrote: »

One for the ref-whingers

Well this is getting just a little bit tiresome.

Synode

People in 'Giving out about the ref' shocker :eek:

Heroditas

Agreed that it's very tiresome. However, what strikes me as funny is how I always like having Nigel ref our games yet we lose more than we win!
Also, I can't stand Poite yet we have a great record when he refs us.
Just goes to show...

EDIT: apparently the poor record under Nige is because he refs a load of the games against NZ. Fai enough. Couldn't be arsed reading the rest.

Sanjuro

According to both the Independent and the Times, Zebo and Jack McGrath are being replaced with Luke Fitzgerald and Cian Healy. Great to see Fitzgerald finally get a run, but perhaps a bit unfair on McGrath. He's been great, and Healy's looked rusty as fook coming off the bench.

Podge_irl

Roman Poite P 5 W 4 L 1

Ha! Feel like that stat won't stop people moaning about him though.

The whole concept of that article is embarrassing.

molloyjh

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ha! Feel like that stat won't stop people moaning about him though.

The whole concept of that article is embarrassing.

Generally when people give out about him it's because of the scrum. I do think that's a weak point in his game, but aside from that he's generally a very good ref.

padser

Podge_irl wrote: »

The whole concept of that article is embarrassing.

It's funny, that seems to be the common sentiment here but I find it surprising.

In Rugby (to a much much greater extent than any other sport I can think of, save perhaps judges in boxing) the referee has a monumental influence (both the way the game is played on the field, and the final scoreline) on the game and that's largely down to interpretation. I'm talking about systematically different decisions from one ref vs another (not a referee missing an incident or viewing a single incident on the margins differently, which happens in every sport)

One implication of this is that some refs interpretation suits certain teams. Another implication is that a huge part of a teams preparation is on dealing with this referees quirks / nuances.

To be fair, the article is absolutely useless as if doesn't really do any serious analysis of the differences between the referees etc. But the notion that some referee choices favour certain teams in certain games is undoubtably correct in my view and I don't see it as embarrassing to point that out. For me, it's equivalent to pointing out that a dry day suits the team who excels at running the ball.

Swiwi.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One for the ref-whingers

If this continues the "whinging Poms" jibe will change to "whinging Paddies". Already some of the Aussie rugby sites I surf are making mention of the moaning.

sydthebeat

Swiwi. wrote: »

If this continues the "whinging Poms" jibe will change to "whinging Paddies". Already some of the Aussie rugby sites I surf are making mention of the moaning.

its a total embarrassment at this stage

Swiwi.

sydthebeat wrote: »

its a total embarrassment at this stage

It just falls on deaf ears. Other countries simply don't care. If you combine ireland climbing in the world rankings + moaning supporters you soon end up with a team everyone wants to beat.

fitz

Swiwi. wrote: »

It just falls on deaf ears. Other countries simply don't care. If you combine ireland climbing in the world rankings + moaning supporters you soon end up with a team everyone wants to beat.

Yeah, it's not doing anyone any favours...
There were definitely valid complaints about Barnes' performance at the weekend, and both a bit of reasoned discussion and a bit of outraged ranting is to be expected in the aftermath of a defeat like last week, but FFS, it's done.
I don't want to keep reliving the bloody thing, I wish people would just move on.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Speaking of the world rankings am I right in saying that if England win by more than 15 points they go ahead of us regardless of our result against scotland?

Podge_irl

padser wrote: »

It's funny, that seems to be the common sentiment here but I find it surprising.

To be fair, the article is absolutely useless

That's why its embarrassing. It comes across as just petulant and provides no relevant insight.

Yes, different refs have different interpretations and I don't doubt that the Irish team probably have preferences. Ultimately all you can really ask for is consistency though, and if you have that then its up to the team to adapt. If they're consistently losing under a certain ref then the team needs to look at how it is approaching those games.

I don't think Barnes had a good game and I was somewhat miffed in the immediate aftermath but the continued bleating from some quarters is just ridiculous.

[Deleted User]

Swiwi. wrote: »

It just falls on deaf ears. Other countries simply don't care. If you combine ireland climbing in the world rankings + moaning supporters you soon end up with a team everyone wants to beat.

Nobody cares. Nobody.

Mahatma Geansai

First our provinces struggled as our national team began to do well. Now we've spent a week moaning about a ref.

...We've turned into Wales!! :eek::(

[Deleted User]

Podge_irl wrote: »

That's why its embarrassing. It comes across as just petulant and provides no relevant insight.

Yes, different refs have different interpretations and I don't doubt that the Irish team probably have preferences. Ultimately all you can really ask for is consistency though, and if you have that then its up to the team to adapt. If they're consistently losing under a certain ref then the team needs to look at how it is approaching those games.

I don't think Barnes had a good game and I was somewhat miffed in the immediate aftermath but the continued bleating from some quarters is just ridiculous.

Is this not a major issue in the sport though?

irishbucsfan

AdamD wrote: »

Is this not a major issue in the sport though?

No, not really. The referees meet both captains before each game and explain exactly what they are looking at. Not just at professional level.

padser

irishbucsfan wrote: »

No, not really. The referees meet both captains before each game and explain exactly what they are looking at. Not just at professional level.

This in itself is a major issue though. The fact that there is such disparities between referring styles and interpretations that a referee meets with teams before a game to tell them which of the myriad of rule he plans to enforce today.

There should be consistency across referees rather than meetings before the games telling players what he is going to "focus on"

Rattlehead_ie

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

...We've turned into Wales!! :eek::(

Can I request a life time ban for this guy

The Lost Sheep

AdamD wrote: »

Is this not a major issue in the sport though?

How do you stop referees having different interpretations of the law of the sport? The sport doesn't have rules which have to be adhered to there is laws which can and will be interpreted differently by players and most importantly referees
Its not a major issue at all.

Bridge93

If we're as successful as Wales have been over the last 10 years in the next 10 years I won't mind being like them from a national point of view!

irishbucsfan

padser wrote: »

This in itself is a major issue though. The fact that there is such disparities between referring styles and interpretations that a referee meets with teams before a game to tell them which of the myriad of rule he plans to enforce today.

There should be consistency across referees rather than meetings before the games telling players what he is going to "focus on"

Well, if you have a way of creating that sort of culture without detracting for the game I'm all for it. I haven't seen any suggestions like that however and until I do I'm perfectly happy with the way the laws work for us currently.

total former

padser wrote: »

This in itself is a major issue though. The fact that there is such disparities between referring styles and interpretations that a referee meets with teams before a game to tell them which of the myriad of rule he plans to enforce today.

There should be consistency across referees rather than meetings before the games telling players what he is going to "focus on"

The only way you could achieve this is by every referee sticking to the absolute letter of the law in every instance, which would make the game absolutely unwatchable.

The Lost Sheep

padser wrote: »

This in itself is a major issue though. The fact that there is such disparities between referring styles and interpretations that a referee meets with teams before a game to tell them which of the myriad of rule he plans to enforce today.

There should be consistency across referees rather than meetings before the games telling players what he is going to "focus on"

There cant and shouldn't be consistency amongst referees on certain aspects of the law. It isn't a major issue. In the pro game the teams prepare for specific referees and it isn't an issue at amateur level.
How would you enforce and ensure all referees apply a consistent approach to certain laws?

padser

total former wrote: »

The only way you could achieve this is by every referee sticking to the absolute letter of the law in every instance, which would make the game absolutely unwatchable.

It would be much easier for people to just accept their defeats in a gracious and dignified manner, tbh.

Just to be clear, my viewpoint here is not to do with an individual game or outcome. Specifically if anyone thinks it's to do with last Saturday, IMO Wales deserved to win the game irrespective of the decision of the referee at the death.

But, I dislike additional elements of randomness added into a game that can't be controlled by players. I get the point above that if referees enforced every law them the game would be unwatchable (and IBF point that it's difficult to see how you implement a system that is unbiased).

But surely it's possible for us to design rules for the game of rugby, as it's currently played, such that we can greatly reduce the arbitrary impact referees have on the game.

Simple example. Playing advantage. At the moment each referee interprets advantage differently. Let's stop that from happening. Decide precisely what constitutes an advantage, put a small set of concise rules in place describing them. Get referees to enforce them.

Will there still he some inconsistency in interpretation? Yes. Will there be some instances which fall outside these rules and result in something unfair? Yes (because discretion will be removed from referee). However, will there be greater consistency and hence less impact on the game from the referee? Yes

I personally this it's something worth striving for and I don't know why rugby continually allows referrers such level of discretion in interpretation. Just tighten up guidelines.