On that same day, General Philip Breedlove, the top NATO commander in Europe, stepped before the press in Washington. Putin, the 59-year-old said, had once again "upped the ante" in eastern Ukraine -- with "well over a thousand combat vehicles, Russian combat forces, some of their most sophisticated air defense, battalions of artillery" having been sent to the Donbass. "What is clear," Breedlove said, "is that right now, it is not getting better. It is getting worse every day." German leaders in Berlin were stunned. They didn't understand what Breedlove was talking about. And it wasn't the first time. Once again, the German government, supported by intelligence gathered by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), Germany's foreign intelligence agency, did not share the view of NATO's Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR).
Sources in the Chancellery have referred to Breedlove's comments as "dangerous propaganda." Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier even found it necessary recently to bring up Breedlove's comments with NATO General Secretary Jens Stoltenberg.
Egginacup wrote: » Ah, the old loaded question akin to "So, Mr. Smith, do you still beat your wife?"
Elmer Blooker wrote: » I deleted the last paragraph, best ignored! Social media as evidence? NO! Good god!! Do people actually believe the stuff that Yatsenyuk comes up with? "Yats, he's the guy, **** the EU!"
Elmer Blooker wrote: » Meanwhile Berlin is alarmed and not very happy with NATO lies and their attempts to stop peace breaking out.
Elmer Blooker wrote: » Meanwhile Berlin is alarmed and not very happyhttp://www.spiegel.de/international/world/germany-concerned-about-aggressive-nato-stance-on-ukraine-a-1022193.html
hawks like Breedlove or Victoria Nuland are doing what they can to pave the way for weapons deliveries. "We can fight against the Europeans, fight against them rhetorically," Nuland said during a private meeting of American officials on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference at the beginning of February. No wonder, then, that people in Berlin have the impression that important power brokers in Washington are working against the Europeans. Berlin officials have noticed that, following the visit of American politicians or military leaders in Kiev, Ukrainian officials are much more bellicose and optimistic about the Ukrainian military's ability to win the conflict on the battlefield. "We then have to laboriously bring the Ukrainians back onto the course of negotiations," said one Berlin official. .....and is famous for having said "**** the EU" during the initial days of the Ukraine crisis in February of 2014. Her husband, the neo-conservative Robert Kagan, is, after all, the originator of the idea that Americans are from Mars and Europeans, unwilling as they are to realize that true security depends on military power, are from Venus.When it comes to the goal of delivering weapons to Ukraine, Nuland and Breedlove work hand-in-hand. On the first day of the Munich Security Conference, the two gathered the US delegation behind closed doors to discuss their strategy for breaking Europe's resistance to arming Ukraine
cnocbui wrote: » How do you manage to twist a statement by Russia that it would declare war - even if not actually attacked by anyone - into a declaration that the US are mad war mongers?
BoJack Horseman wrote: » Its quite an achievement alright Russias invasions are fine when viewed through the skewed prism that the US is always evil. Buy as the Putinistas will agree, a US armed Ukraine is of no concern to Russia as there are obviously no Russian forces in Ukraine.
WakeUp wrote: » who said anything about Russian invasions being fine. if the US arm Ukraine for a start its the end of Ukraine.
BoJack Horseman wrote: » Explain.... Please, how a western armed Ukraine is Cassius belli to Russia? Expand on that by comparing how the exact same actions vis-a-vis Estonia isn't?
WakeUp wrote: » what are you talking about. certain prominent Americans are actively trying to escalate the conflict by arming the Ukrainians if that happens all bets are off and you think its bad now. wait and see what happens if that sh1t goes down. whilst the Germans and French who represent our interests ( Europeans ) are trying to get people around the table and find a diplomatic way out of this. they are pushing back against American calls to arm Ukraine and possibly set the continent, our continent, ablaze. according to the Moscow times and people they spoke to in the Russian defense ministry if the Americans do this it will be viewed by the Russians as a declaration of war. stop and just think about that for a second.
WakeUp wrote: » why should I have to explain anything I didnt make the statement. the Russians did it isnt up to me explain.
and why cant you answer my question? is moar war what you want? is it? because arming Ukraine thats what your asking for....
cnocbui wrote: » The RUSSIANS are the only ones threatening war - you think about that for second.
BoJack Horseman wrote: » True, you don't speak for the Kremlin. Though no harm any of its fans postulating on what arms sales to a given country = declaration of war? Russia must feel incredibly insecure if a box of javelin missiles = a declaration of war??Nope, I'm very pro-peace & anti-invasion.The status quo of invasion, death & war has to end.
WakeUp wrote: » exactly. thats the point isnt it. if certain prominent Americans get their way and arm the Ukrainians. are you another natowhooyawarrior war junkie? or would you prefer to see a diplomatic attempt and solution sorted by Europeans to what is going on....because arming Ukraine which the Americans want will have an opposite catastrophic affect to that.
cnocbui wrote: » A NATO war junkie? Name the countries that have been attacked by NATO and then invaded by NATO.
WakeUp wrote: » fans and such you still coming out with such sh1te. you say you want peace and all that how best is that to be achieved. by escalating the conflict arming the Ukrainians. or following the German and French lead and trying to get people around the table?..
Gatling wrote: » The only reason the French and Germans are around the is because putin invited them so he can get assurances that ukraine will never be allowed to join the EU and no other reason . hollande and Merkel are only playing oh look we can hang with the big boys . And there own interests and nothing more
WakeUp wrote: » thats a no brainer really Ukraine should never be allowed anywhere near the EU or Nato why would we want anything to do with them .can you elaborate on this a little for me though?.. the Germans and French are acting in their own interests as you say what interests are these?.. so where do you stand Gatling do you support their efforts at finding a diplomatic solution or are you in favour of American calls to arm the Ukrainians?....
gandalf wrote: » I'd say Gatling like the majority here is in favour of Ukrainian borders being respected and returned to the state they existed in before Russia decided to dismember them.
BoJack Horseman wrote: » Peace without capitulation is the best objective. Would you not prefer Russian forces withdraw back to their own county?
WakeUp wrote: » answer my question please. do you support German lead efforts to find a peaceful diplomatic solution or do you support American calls to arm the Ukrainians?..which do you support?..
Gatling wrote: » I want to see total withdrawl of all russian troops and equipment . Either an EU or Nato peace keeping/enforcement mission Ukrainian military taking complete and unrestricted control of there border . Then there military given the assistance to rebuild and restructuring to maintain security in there sovereign state . Then let the people have a referendum asking one simple question EU membership Or not . Not what you or egg want Not what I want Certainly not what russia and putin wants But what the Ukrainian nation want
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » I support both.
WakeUp wrote: » and what is the best way to attempt to achieve that...moar war?
