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Who would be called in?

true567

If something like the Australian or Paris terrorist attacks happened in Dublin, or anywhere in Ireland for that matter, who would be the forces deployed?

I would assume it would be the Army Ranger Wing or does the Garda have a special force group for such matters? (i.e. the snipers providing support from a distance and the men entering the building)

This question is not a result of such attacks but instead is a curious thought regarding our defense forces. So please don't derail the thread by discussing such groups.

Also, perhaps it is just me but I would like more information regarding the Ranger Wing but cannot find the entry requirements regarding them? I was on the official website scrolling around but could not find a set list of requirements, so if anyone can better direct me that would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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DarkyHughes

The INLA or some paramilitary that has real life experience with terrorist & anti-terrorist situations.

Morpheus

Thread reopened, please observe OPSEC at all times, thanks.

Morpheus

Closing this thread until ive time to read to ensure there are no OPSEC issues... please bare with me.

evo2000

Zambia wrote: »

Doesn't read terribly

What is your issue?

The issue is the eru are not as cool as the ARW clearly...

Zambia

Maoltuile wrote: »

Definitely. I remember the so-called Athy 'shootout', among (rumoured) other f**kups. Not the Guards' finest moment.

Doesn't read terribly

In January 1990, one of five armed criminals was killed by a team from the Garda Emergency Response Unit, during a hostage-taking at a bank in Athy, County Kildare. Five raiders, each armed, from a prominent Dublin based criminal gang attempted to steal cash from the bank, but had been followed by an undercover unit from the ERU, following a spate of violent robberies in the Greater Dublin Area. When the armed gang attempted to raid the bank, they were surrounded by ERU operatives, and resorted to taking staff, customers and passers-by hostage. An ERU marksman shot one gang member in the head from long range. Austin Higgins (26), who was on bail from robbery charges at the time, was fatally wounded. Eight people were injured during the incident, but all of the hostages were freed and survived. The remaining gang of four who were armed, but did not fire their weapons, were apprehended (two of whom were shot but survived) by Gardaí and later received 12 year prison sentences.[26]

What is your issue?

Maoltuile

Simona1986 wrote: »

I would think that if anyone was to storm any buildings it would be the rangers in place of the ERU

Definitely. I remember the so-called Athy 'shootout', among (rumoured) other f**kups. Not the Guards' finest moment.

Zambia

French police had two major events unfolding , no surprise they required another tactical unit.

imperator567

Zambia wrote: »

Not quite what we are talking about but in the case above chances are the military would be summoned.

But I stress it's highly unlikely to occur.

But even in a fluid and evolving Paris type incident with armed terrorists roaming loose after a significant incident, ie a multiple murder, the Wing would be called in. As French Special Forces were.

Zambia

imperator567 wrote: »

Also multiple terrorists armed with heavy machine guns, RPGs, grenades etc.

The ERU are not trained for such scenarios.

Not quite what we are talking about but in the case above chances are the military would be summoned.

But I stress it's highly unlikely to occur.

imperator567

evo2000 wrote: »

All highly highly unlikely, its safe to say unless of the rarest of circumstances the arw would never be called in.

There was an incident near where i live where grenades were being used and it was the ERU that was called in also.

Hijacking of a ferry or airplane is another, the Wing rappelled onto a ferry only a couple of years ago.

Its on you tube, excellent drills.

evo2000

imperator567 wrote: »

Apologies, its not letting me edit, poison gas, chemical, biological weapons etc.

All highly highly unlikely, its safe to say unless of the rarest of circumstances the arw would never be called in.

There was an incident near where i live where grenades were being used and it was the ERU that was called in also.

imperator567

Apologies, its not letting me edit, poison gas, chemical, biological weapons etc.

imperator567

Also multiple terrorists armed with heavy machine guns, RPGs, grenades etc.

The ERU are not trained for such scenarios.

imperator567

Zambia wrote: »

describe a significant terrorist threat?

A well armed and significant number of terrorists in a complex ongoing operation, could be a cinema, theater, school and more then one location.

Highly unlikely but possible.

Zambia

imperator567 wrote: »

Outdated drill in the pic, these days a snake formation is used (learned the hard way in Afghanistan) and point man has an anti ballistic shield.

They have no experience of dealing with suicide bombers, especially at multiple entry/exit points.

Nor equipment that Special Forces anti terrorism units use like Wall Breaching Cannon/Harvey wallbangers.

In any significant terrorist incident the Wing would be called in.

In any complex and extended incident, UK SF who they now train with would support with logistics and expertise.

describe a significant terrorist threat?

imperator567

Outdated drill in the pic, these days a snake formation is used (learned the hard way in Afghanistan) and point man has an anti ballistic shield.

They have no experience of dealing with suicide bombers, especially at multiple entry/exit points.

Nor equipment that Special Forces anti terrorism units use like Wall Breaching Cannon/Harvey wallbangers.

In any significant terrorist incident the Wing would be called in.

In any complex and extended incident, UK SF who they now train with would support with logistics and expertise.

Zambia

It was the NSW police tactical operations group.

AbusesToilets

I'd be pretty surprised if it was actually a police unit that responded to the siege in Sydney.

knucklehead6

cppilot98 wrote: »

It's also likely international expertise would be called on in the event of a non domestic terrorist incident like a hijacking or an embassy siege.

Are you for real with this one???

I know we depend on the RAF to defend our skies (an argument for another thread) but i don't see any possible reason for any "international involvement" in an incident that happens in Ireland.

The ARW are fairly highly regarded internationally.

qt3.14

I've no particular basis for the opinion but I wouldn't expect to see the armed forces called into a single continuing situation like Paris or Sydney. If there was a sustained assault on the state ie multiple attacks over time I could see the ERU getting overstretched and then the nod given.

evo2000

Call in the army rangers because it would be soooo much coooler send em in 300 style phalanx and all just for added badassness, also im going to be a ranger because rangers are cool go rangers....

all piss taking aside tho of course the ERU would be able to handle a situation like that and be just aswell armed as the rangers if not better for such a scenario, there wouldnt be much point in the ERU if they couldnt manage situations like that.

Atlantic Dawn

They would simply wait until the time the hostage takers said their daily prayers and then hit the place, simple, it's their one idiotic weakness with all their fancy planning and equipment.

Zambia

cppilot98 wrote: »

Slightly surprised you don't understand the difference. But clearly it's an incident involving an individual group from an illegal para military organisation or other group with a political agenda as opposed to a mentally ill or drunk man waving a shotgun out the window of a cottage or someone attempting to rob a post office.

So your saying as soon as someone shouts something political the Garda should hand everything over to the Army?

No not ok.

cppilot98 wrote: »

GIGN is military, GSG9 are police too but essentially recruited from an armed para military force. Neither are directly comparable to the ERU which recruits from an unarmed police force.

What how much time do you think a European Police force spends on the range? The fact they are routinely armed does not equate to them all being crack shots.

cppilot98 wrote: »

Not sure why it seems to bother you that there might be a role for ARW in certain scenarios. The ERU work with the ARW and it's no secret that the ARW have a role in counter terrorism. The defence forces Facebook page was recently highlighting an exercise involving ARW boarding a ferry at sea. The also practice other hostage situation involving aircraft and buildings. They do have a domestic role but obviously not involving watching bank robbers or drug dealers.

I don't dispute they can be called in but the days are fast declining that they will be. The fact of the matter is Drug Gangs are now far more likely to be involved in police shootouts than terrorists in Ireland.

The Garda do have the men, weapons and training to handle any foreseeable siege type event on the mainland of Ireland. If they dont well then they should be brought up to speed quickly.

cppilot98

Zambia wrote: »

Whats an obvious terrorist incident?

Slightly surprised you don't understand the difference. But clearly it's an incident involving an individual group from an illegal para military organisation or other group with a political agenda as opposed to a mentally ill or drunk man waving a shotgun out the window of a cottage or someone attempting to rob a post office.

Ok?

riffmongous wrote: »

GSG9 are a police unit though right? KSK is the army SF unit. Also the premier anti-terrorist unit in Austria is part of the police, EKO Cobra.

GIGN is military, GSG9 are police too but essentially recruited from an armed para military force. Neither are directly comparable to the ERU which recruits from an unarmed police force.

Not sure why it seems to bother you that there might be a role for ARW in certain scenarios. The ERU work with the ARW and it's no secret that the ARW have a role in counter terrorism. The defence forces Facebook page was recently highlighting an exercise involving ARW boarding a ferry at sea. The also practice other hostage situation involving aircraft and buildings. They do have a domestic role but obviously not involving watching bank robbers or drug dealers.

[Deleted User]

cppilot98 wrote: »

You can be quite sure or at least I would hope it's sure that various scenarios have been rehearsed and considered.

It's fairly certain that the ARW would come into play in the event of an obvious terrorist incident. They train for that scenario and in all probability have some experience already.

I very much doubt the ERU are on a par with any SF unit let alone the ARW. Which isn't to denigrate their expertise. But they're police at the end of the day and with due respect not the equivalent of the CIGN or GSG9.

It's also likely international expertise would be called on in the event of a non domestic terrorist incident like a hijacking or an embassy siege.

GSG9 are a police unit though right? KSK is the army SF unit. Also the premier anti-terrorist unit in Austria is part of the police, EKO Cobra.

Fratton Fred

Am I correct in thinking the the ERU train regularly with the Met's SO19? If so, I would have thought they would be trained in anti terrorist operations.

Zambia

cppilot98 wrote: »

You can be quite sure or at least I would hope it's sure that various scenarios have been rehearsed and considered.

It's fairly certain that the ARW would come into play in the event of an obvious terrorist incident. They train for that scenario and in all probability have some experience already.

I very much doubt the ERU are on a par with any SF unit let alone the ARW. Which isn't to denigrate their expertise. But they're police at the end of the day and with due respect not the equivalent of the CIGN or GSG9.

It's also likely international expertise would be called on in the event of a non domestic terrorist incident like a hijacking or an embassy siege.

Whats an obvious terrorist incident?

If you have one IS bandana wearing bloke with a knife and 1 hostage a terrorist incident?

Remember both the OP's examples were both handled by the countries/states police forces.

cppilot98

You can be quite sure or at least I would hope it's sure that various scenarios have been rehearsed and considered.

It's fairly certain that the ARW would come into play in the event of an obvious terrorist incident. They train for that scenario and in all probability have some experience already.

I very much doubt the ERU are on a par with any SF unit let alone the ARW. Which isn't to denigrate their expertise. But they're police at the end of the day and with due respect not the equivalent of the CIGN or GSG9.

It's also likely international expertise would be called on in the event of a non domestic terrorist incident like a hijacking or an embassy siege.

roundymac

For fecks sake Joan Burton was trapped in her car and the Gardai could do nothing about it.dealing with terrorists the ARW are the only people capable of dealing with. The seige at Abbylara was another Garda f**k up.

donvito99

It would be up to AGS to delegate to the DF and the Ranger Wing. They'd most likely be called upon in cases where the ERU are absolutely stretched in manpower and resources.