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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

slegs

RTE CFO speaking at Seanad committee announces that RTE will launch a Saorsat service with spot beam on Ireland of FTA PSB channels from Q2 2011. Presume Astra 28.2 but he didnt say.

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lertsnim

jkk1 wrote: »

Also, slovenian programming on these stations is not encrypted, only the programming where there might be a licensing/royalties issue
Sensible way to do it, not like the expensive mess we have!

That's how RAI do it in Italy too. I don't know why RTÉ don't via Astra 2 as thst would make more sense. Of course it might be a contractual reason with Sky that requires them to be encrypted 24/7

TAFKAlawhec

RTV Slovenia are available via 16 east - however form any time I've observed them much, only their 3rd channel - mainly carrying news & current affairs - is FTA for the majority of the time, the 1st and 2nd channels being encrypted the majority of the time. Also, they share on transponder costs with their Croatian neighbour HRT. At present RTV SLO use the space to broadcast three TV and three radio stations, but the TV stations are all in SD and it doesn't look like there is much room for expansion on the said transponder (although RTS Sat from Serbia did appear on it earlier this year, again SD only).

With RAI in Italy, their three main channels plus most of their recently launched genre channels are by and large FTA in SD, with encryption only coming into play normally for sporting rights e.g. F1 racing. There is a legacy in this in that RAI were one of the first broadcasters in Europe to eagerly take up satellite as so to expand their reach into cable networks across the continent. However all of their HD output is fully encrypted, and the way that TivuSat is marketed, there's no guarantee that their HD transmissions will eventually go along the same path as their SD ones do.

The main reason for Saorsat being as it is is mainly down to cost, at least according to RTÉ anyway. They claim that the costs involved are around €1-1.5 million per year, which in comparison to the average cost of a transponder lease on a satellite over Europe is quite cheap (reckoned on average to be around €3 million per year) and whilst allowing for commercial confidentiality blurring the true costs, the rate of transponder rent on the Astra 2 satellites is thought to be among the most expensive not just in Europe but also the world. So just as an example we'll say it's €4 million per year. For RTÉ - or rather 2RN - to rent that transponder, the cost is no short change. What RTÉ could do is say strike out a deal with say the BBC, ITV or Channel 4 in the UK and do something similar to RTV SLO and share transponder costs i.e. use half of the corresponding bit rate. This takes the rental costs of a transponder down to around €2 million - however the bit rate available to them is rather constrained. For a DVB-S transponder this gives them around 17 Mbits/s, which might be enough to fit in the SD versions of RTÉ1, RTÉ2, News Now & RTÉ Jr/RTÉ1+1 at a half-decent quality using MPEG2 but not leave much room for other TV stations. What could be done instead is if the transponder is DVB-S2 then you've upped the bit rate to around 22-23 Mbit/s for half a transponder - you could have RTÉ 1 & RTE 2 in HD without SD duplication (as is the case on Saorview) along with RTÉ's other channels in SD MPEG4 with just about enough elbow room. You would however potentially leave those with Sky non-HD receivers out in the cold in terms of receiving these services.

Then comes additional costs - the costs of CA which need to be managed one of which being that tying such CA to Videoguard only could be politically contentious. Broadcasting FTA as they do with Saorsat avoids these headaches. Then other Irish broadcasters like TV3 & TG4 would have to likely make their own arrangements outside from RTÉ.

So overall Saorsat is a bit of a fudge, a classic case of an Irish solution to an Irish problem, but it does work - well at least it should do for most people. The problem is of course the issue of rain fade at 20GHz frequencies, coupled that the places most likely needing to avail of Saorsat are on the edge of the spot beam (Kerry, Cork, Donegal) where rainfall is quite high in comparison to other parts of the country, and the recent change in FEC value has done nothing to help with this. There would appear to be scope for 2RN to be able to increase the transponder power to compensate for this, but it doesn't look like it. Again probably down to cost.

FRIENDO

TAFKAlawhec wrote: »

So overall Saorsat is a bit of a fudge, a classic case of an Irish solution to an Irish problem, but it does work - well at least it should do for most people. The problem is of course the issue of rain fade at 20GHz frequencies, coupled that the places most likely needing to avail of Saorsat are on the edge of the spot beam (Kerry, Cork, Donegal) where rainfall is quite high in comparison to other parts of the country, and the recent change in FEC value has done nothing to help with this. There would appear to be scope for 2RN to be able to increase the transponder power to compensate for this, but it doesn't look like it. Again probably down to cost.

Also have the issue of loosing the saorsat signal in Wexford with rain on an 80cm dish, very annoying.
The dish is only used for Saorsat.

watty

Poor alignment or too small a dish.

irishgeo

i got a perfect reception on 9e using a non soarsat meter but no signal on the box.

any ideas why?

Oscarziggy

irishgeo.
Have you ever been able to get a picture from Saorsat by mounting the KA lnb at the prime focus of the dish and pointed at 9E .?
Regards

Thurston?

irishgeo wrote: »

i got a perfect reception on 9e using a non soarsat meter but no signal on the box.

any ideas why?

So it's a non-DVB-S2 meter? And you're getting the 'perfect reception' on a KU-band DVB-S transponder at 9 east? Or are you using the meter to show a signal reading for DVB-S2, but no lock/BER reading?

By 'perfect reception' do you mean you actually view the picture, so you can confirm it is indeed coming from 9 east, not just a frequency that's also in use at a nearby satellite position?

irishgeo

sorry guys.

I have a first strike fs-1 meter.

I have done the following dish aligned to 19.2 with a universal lnb then aligned 28.2 then aligned with 19.2. i then swapped to a soarsat lnb and nothing coming in for rte.

I do have an astra signal though.

I am not sure what settings out in here for soarsat in order to tune it with out a lock.

http://firststrikemeters.com/images/fs1-1.jpg as the frequency doesnt go above 20000.

Thurston?

irishgeo wrote: »

... then aligned 28.2 then aligned with 19.2.

You mean 9 east, rather than 19.2 here? Which tp did you use? What channels were coming in on it?

irishgeo

Thurston? wrote: »

You mean 9 east, rather than 19.2 here? Which tp did you use? What channels were coming in on it?

I think i used this one , 11766 V
tp 52, not at home now to check.

Thurston?

irishgeo wrote: »

I think i used this one , 11766 V
tp 52, not at home now to check.

That frequency & polarity is also used at 13 east, same symbol rate but different FEC.

11919 V might be a better one. It's also used at both 9 & 13, but even if your meter shows a signal reading for the signal from 13 on this tp, it shouldn't get a lock on it: it will lock on the signal from 9 east on this tp though.

jjf1974

Thurston? wrote: »

That frequency & polarity is also used at 13 east, same symbol rate but different FEC.

11919 V might be a better one. It's also used at both 9 & 13, but even if your meter shows a signal reading for the signal from 13 on this tp, it shouldn't get a lock on it: it will lock on the signal from 9 east on this tp though.

A station called A.N.N which has a very strong signal will show up first on your box if you have tuned in properly.you will know it as it only seems to show fellas shooting at each others in the desert.

FRIENDO

Re alligned the dish (80cm) before Christmas in Wexford and now have perfect Saorsat reception in all weather over the period.
Also got the Saorsat approved walker combo in powercity for christmas - working perfect with saorsat, 7 day epg and RTE digital Aertel all working.
Easy to tune in Saorsat as the Eutelsat Ka-sat 9A(9.0E) is added to the pre installed satellite list.
Signal bars on view have slightly dropped in wet and windy conditions as pictures taken yesterday (a wet and windy day).

FRIENDO

More photos, overall the walker box is working perfect with Saorsat, very good to have the RTE digital Aertel service.
I went for the combo box as I have it combined with freeview from Wales.

coopershels

Friendo,

That looks good . I'd like to try it myself. Can you tell me, do you need to set up the disecq switch? If so how do I do it.

I already Have humax freesat set up on disecq so all the cables and switch are in place.

Or is it a case of just tuning them in.

Thanks.

FRIENDO

coopershels wrote: »

Friendo,

That looks good . I'd like to try it myself. Can you tell me, do you need to set up the disecq switch? If so how do I do it.

I already Have humax freesat set up on disecq so all the cables and switch are in place.

Or is it a case of just tuning them in.

Thanks.

I did not use disecq,
I use a seperate dish for Saorsat (80cm) and a zone 1 dish for Freesat with humax hdr,

I used a direct line for saorsat, combining Saorsat with terestrial freeview from Wales on the Walker.

Boards user phelixoflaherty has set up saorsat on the humax hdr with freesat using disecq.
It has been reported that on the Humax hdr, saorsat had no epg information.

I have found the Walker combo (Saorsat approved) to be the best box with Saorsat, I suppose having RTE Digital aertel is the biggest advantage.

Both the Walker and the Humax are capable of disecq.

You may have to use a specific port for saorsat on a disecq switch, I think I read that somewhere.

Setting up Saorsat
I aligned the dish and universal Lnb to 9E, as I do not have a meter for the Ka Lnb
Swapped the lnb with the new Saorsat lnb.
I'm using an 80cm dish for Saorsat in Wexford.

You may have to fine tune the dish gently moving east/west and elevation, also moving the lnb in and out can give a better signal which can make a difference in rain.

Depending on receiver for example:
With the triax 114 combo - I did a blind scan on 9E and the Saorsat channels came in.
With the Ferguson arivaHD - I had to add a "fake" frequency 10.765 vertical on 9E to get Saorsat channels.
On the walker combo it had Eutelsat Ka-sat 9A(9.0E) on the satellite list for tuning.

If you are trying to have the Saorsat lnb off centre you may need a bigger dish than 80cm for rain fade depending on your location, in Cork or Kerry even bigger again.

FRIENDO

coopershels wrote: »

Friendo,

I already Have humax freesat set up on disecq so all the cables and switch are in place.

Thanks.

From Wiki
If the receiver does not have a setting for the Ka band LNBF Lo, then a "fake" frequency 10.765 vertical rather than the real 20.185 may be entered when using the Inverto LNB with local oscillator of 21.2.[13]

To receive Freesat/Sky or other services alongside Saorsat, a dual- or multi-feed type dish or two dishes are needed with either one or more DiSEqC switches or a multi-switch. On a multi-switch the Saorsat LNB needs to be connected to vertical 0 kHz port only. The other 3 input ports are left unused.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saorsat

coopershels

I tried doing it with a diseqc 2.0 switch but i read up a bit and it seems that the box is compatible with diseqc 1.0 and diseqc 1.2. I have ordered one from ebay for less than 5 euro delivered and i will report back after i try it with the new one.

Thurston?

coopershels wrote: »

I tried doing it with a diseqc 2.0 switch but i read up a bit and it seems that the box is compatible with diseqc 1.0 and diseqc 1.2.

DiSEqC 2.0 switch should work with DiSEqC 1.0 receiver. I think some 2-way switches are intended for use in cascade with a monoblock LNB, so if you had 1 of those, it might need to be set up a certain way. (A & C/1 & 3, rather than A & B/1 & 2.)

FRIENDO

Just comparing signal quality on the walker box, from today dry and clear and two days ago on a wet and windy day.
Fortunately since realigning the dish we have perfect Saorsat reception in all weather.

coopershels

I got the diseqc switch set up on the box and tuned the saorsat channels in on the satellite portion of the box. I was able to split the feed coming from the dish so i have it on both stbs.

I dont really need this as the box has saorview but i just wanted to see if it worked.

irishgeo

i got mine sorted.

FRIENDO

RTÉ One plus 1 on the RTE Junior screen saver today.

A good excuse to watch the hurling on TG4

FRIENDO

I also returned the Walker Combo to Powercity as the combo was not working correctly with set recordings.

I got the Saorsat approved Walker Satellite reciever WP95sat-Hd
I also got a toshiba 500gb external hard drive

So far everything is working perfect, RTE digital aertel also working perfect on Saorsat.

Very easy to set up and tune in Saorsat service on the 95.

FRIENDO

Looks like another mess up by RTE on Saorsat, this time the epg

RTE on the epg for Saturday, Sunday, Monday looks like its showing the wrong information, very annoying if you want to set recordings, or plan viewing.
Example "Home and away" for almost 14 hours!!!

TG4 looks to be working fine for these days on the epg

FRIENDO

RTE EPG fixed today:)

NUTLEY BOY

We have a new Saorview TV. ( Currently using UPC cable service which we are thinking of ditching because of increasing cost for a modest service. )

If we get the combined dish and aerial will we be able to get radio stations ? Will we be able to get BBC radio and RTE radio. Cannot seem to find much information on this.

Thanks.

radiowaves

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

We have a new Saorview TV. ( Currently using UPC cable service which we are thinking of ditching because of increasing cost for a modest service. )

If we get the combined dish and aerial will we be able to get radio stations ? Will we be able to get BBC radio and RTE radio. Cannot seem to find much information on this.

Thanks.

You will only get the RTÉ Radio services on Saorsat.

However, BBC Radio (and the main RTÉ Radio services) is available on satellite at 28.2.

FRIENDO

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

If we get the combined dish and aerial will we be able to get radio stations ?

.

Yes.
Check the web sites Freesat.co.uk and Saorview.ie

radiowaves

FRIENDO wrote: »

Yes.
Check the web sites Freesat.co.uk and Saorview.ie

Without even checking I doubt that there is any information in relation to Saorsat on either of those