Egginacup wrote: » Is that your answer? You state there is no evidence of hundreds of thousands of refugees from Ukraine in Russia and when presented with it you give that response?
Gatling wrote: » Janes Defence figures One of the most respected military sources in the world . But hey shills can't handle actual facts
Egginacup wrote: » Well it's funny that you haven't posted a link or source showing, proving the existence of 20,000 Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine. I'd love to see it. In fact this week, government leaders in Berlin from both the SDP and Merkel's CDU were aghast at Breedlove's (you do know who he is don't you?) bald-faced lies about Russian troops and equipment in Ukraine. If Jane's Defence Weekly is so respected then they and you would have no problem in providing proof of the 20,000 Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine. So could you provide it please?
Gatling wrote: » This poor woman and her family forced from home by bandits and terrorists "Nagiba went back to Donetsk last week to visit her elderly parents, whose home in the Petrovsky district is next to the frontline. “At the end of their street is a Grad rocket launcher. You can see the rebels firing not far from their house. It’s terrorist tactics.” She added: “My parents are afraid of the militias. They want everything to finish so they can live peacefully.” She sees little prospect that her family will ever be able to go back. Crossing into Donetsk – now run by the self-declared Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) – was a terrifying experience, she said. “I was on a bus. Armed soldiers dragged all the young men out. I thought they were going to shoot them. I left by train. At the station I saw a Russian tank. There were 20 militants, happy, sitting on it.” Ukrainian fleeing and forced to flee to the country who's actually doing the shooting and attacking awful stuff all together. Some 233,000 have left for Russia, Russia’s migration service says, with smaller numbers moving to other neighbouring states, including Belarus and Poland. 233,000 a very long way short of 1 million
Egginacup wrote: » So now you believe the Russians and their migration service but not the LA Times who sourced the United Nations High Commission on Refugees who put the figure at over 800,000 last autumn. I don't know what stupid game you're trying to play here but you're not very good at it.
pcardin wrote: » Don't like the truth, huh? You can glorify your nations 'victories' without hesitation, but when it comes to crime commited then you turn your back, nothing to answer or comment?
Gatling wrote: » Now putin has publicly admitted he ordered the annexation of Crimea in a tv interview . What now russia can now pick and choose to invade and annex other states at will
irish coldplayer wrote: » you mean Putin lied? :eek: It wasn't a popular uprising of patriotic local ethnic Russians? :eek: I'm shocked, flabbergasted even..... but Russia Today said different at the time and they wouldn't lie, unlike those nazi imperialistic Western media :P
Gatling wrote: » 230,000 according to the Russians themselfs Terrible when people start disputing the own waffle 800,000 displaced that certainly doesn't say russia took in 1 million Ukrainian refugees that you have openly claimed . So 300,700 give or take fleeing bandit's and terrorists in eastern Ukraine to safety away from the front lines occupied by russian and cohorts forces
Egginacup wrote: » Well it's funny that you haven't posted a link or source showing, proving the existence of 20,000 Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine. I'd love to see it.
Egginacup wrote: » But you said that there was no evidence of any refugees seeking safety in Russia. When Presented with reports you now quibble about numbers. Is it safe to assume that you now admit that there are in fact hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians living as refugees in Russia contrary to your own denial? You also insisted that Jane's Defence had provided proof that there are 20,000 Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine. When asked to provide not only your own assertion but Jane's Defence proof of this, you replied that you couldn't. Philip Breedlove, a US General claimed publicly that after the second Minsk ceasefire that over 1000 Russian tanks were in Eastern Ukraine, along with advanced batteries and 1000's of Russian troops. His flabbergasting fictitious lies were greeted with dismay by European leaders. In the early 1960's (that's over 50 years ago), clunky aircraft could prove that Russians were planting missiles in Cuba. Today, a satellite can read the newspaper that is on your lap when you're snoozing in the park. They can read license plates of cars before the drones come in silently and blow you to bits from high altitudes and yet they can't provide a single picture of a Russian soldier in Ukraine? Not a single pic of a few lads playing cards as they wait for tomorrow's operation? Not a single shadow of a Russian column and not a single signature of a MiG anywhere near Eastern Ukrainian airspace? Not a shred. If the Russians are this skilled at evading Western reconnaissance then perhaps NATO needs to revisit their surveillance programs. Or maybe there's just a lot of people, you included, telling a load of fcuking lies.
- There are currently 14,400 Russian troops on Ukrainian territory backing up the 29,300 illegally armed formations of separatists in eastern Ukraine. These units are well equipped with the latest main battle tanks, armoured personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, plus hundreds of pieces of tube and rocket artillery. There are also 29,400 Russian troops in Crimea and 55,800 massed along the border with eastern Ukraine.
jobbridge4life wrote: » @Egginacup Are there any flaws of Putin or his Russia that you don't think originate in Western propaganda?
Egginacup wrote: » I'm not certain I understand your question. But to take it on face value, it's irrelevant. There were certain absolutely blatant lies proffered by by Gatling and a host of others and those are simply what I'm responding to. Once those lies are addressed, or at least owned up to as fabrications, then we can move on to other topics. Should you so wish.
RecordStraight wrote: » There was 'no proof' and constant Russian denials that there were any Russian troops in Crimea too. Or have you forgotten?
obplayer wrote: » From Jane's 26th Feb 2015....http://www.janes.com/article/49469/update-russia-s-hybrid-war-in-ukraine-is-working
Egginacup wrote: » Like I mentioned earlier, NATO Commander, Philip Breedlove said that there are thousands of artillery pieces, tanks, anti-aircraft batteries, troops, etc from Russia deployed and ensconced in Eastern Ukraine and these claims have been met with complete outrage by the French, Italian and German governments. Quoting an article from "Janes": The main points made by the briefers were as follows: - There are currently 14,400 Russian troops on Ukrainian territory backing up the 29,300 illegally armed formations of separatists in eastern Ukraine. These units are well equipped with the latest main battle tanks, armoured personnel carriers and infantry fighting vehicles, plus hundreds of pieces of tube and rocket artillery. There are also 29,400 Russian troops in Crimea and 55,800 massed along the border with eastern Ukraine. And still not a shred of evidence. NONE. Just a quote of a quote and a diagram that a 10 year old could have thrown together. Have you quoted some of the comments from your pitifully laughable article? Where is the evidence of any Russian troops or materiel in Eastern Ukraine? We can play this game until the cows come home. You can blag through your teeth and cut and paste some article until you are blue in the face but you will still have what amounts to nothing. Zero proof...because there isn't any, that Russian troops and tanks are in Eastern Ukraine and Su bombers are controlling the skies there. Again, with all the technology that NATO has wouldn't it be so easy to just release a satellite image of all these Russians in Ukraine? Wouldn't it be so easy to show a radar path of Russian military aircraft? Wouldn't it even be so easy to get a few low-rent hookers with simple recording devices in their cheap fur jackets to cavort and record the conversations of the "thousands" of Russian troops there? Yet the "greatest military machine in the world" can't even do that. We are just expected to believe a pack of allegations without a shred of evidence or proof and you are peddling that?
It was a surprising confession. In an interview with the opposition Russian newspaper, Nowaja Gaseta, (from Monday, March 2) a wounded Russian tank operator confirmed what many have long assumed: That contracted Russian soldiers are fighting alongside the separatists in Eastern Ukraine against the Ukrainian army.
In February 2015, the leading independent Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta reported[89] that it obtained documents which showed that Russia's government developed a strategy for invading and breaking up Ukraine even before Viktor Yanukovych was removed from power. The documents outline plans for annexation of Crimea and the southeastern portions of the country, including Donetsk and Luhansk, and also areas in the Kharkiv region, very closely describing the events that actually followed after Yanukovych's fall. The documents also describe plans for a public relations campaign which would seek to justify Russian aggression.[90][91][92] Several members of the international community and organizations such as Amnesty International have criticized Russia for its actions in post-revolutionary Ukraine, and condemned Russia, accusing it of breaking international law and violating Ukrainian sovereignty. Many countries implemented economic sanctions against Russia or Russian individuals or companies, to which Russia responded in kind. The Kremlin has tried to systematically intimidate and silence human rights workers who have raised questions about Russian soldiers' deaths in the conflict.[93]
55,800 massed along the border with eastern Ukraine.
Elmer Blooker wrote: » I don't know anything about Janes Defence and I don't want to know
RecordStraight wrote: » I think I see your problem.
PopePalpatine wrote: » His fellow Putinbots must have hit the vodka pretty hard when that Putin documentary aired on Russian state TV. :pac:
Elmer Blooker wrote: » Putin organised the reunification of Crimea with Russia, so what?
Elmer Blooker wrote: » Whats the big deal about this documentary? Putin organised the reunification of Crimea with Russia, so what?
obplayer wrote: » You asked for evidence that Jane's had confirmed that Russian troops were in Ukraine, I have given that. Are you saying that Jane's are lying?http://www.dw.de/evidence-mounting-of-russian-troops-in-ukraine/a-18294255http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014%E2%80%9315_Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine Now could we have some counter evidence quotes please? By the way I realise that you are either a shill or so fixed in your mind set that nothing will sway you, these posts are for those who are in any way unsure. Also, some satellite pictures...https://www.google.ie/search?q=russian+troops+in+ukraine+satellite+images&biw=1600&bih=775&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=UFX-VNvqK8r3UuXKgJgE&ved=0CB8QsAQ&dpr=1 Where did the armored vehicles come from?
Egginacup wrote: » None of this is evidence at all. None of it. A Wikipedia page that cites CNN? CNN were also the one who staged the toppling of the Saddam statue in Fardir Square. As for that Jane's Defence article....I don't see a single source for the claims made in that piece. And the images you posted.....what are they? Some aerial shots. If there was so much ironclad evidence of a Russian invasion and occupation then where is it? Why does evidence have to be faked? Why do some media release images and videoclips purporting to show Russian vehicles and these images later turn out to be laughable fakes? Why fake if the proof is there? And I asked earlier if Russia had invaded Ukraine then why would hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians seek refuge in the land of the aggressor? Did hundreds of thousands of Polish refugees stream into Germany in 1939 after the nazis invaded? Or did French civilians pile into the Rhineland in search of refuge in 1941?
