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Church vs Humanist wedding

obriendj

Hi there

Just wondering if there is any advice on how to deal with an upcoming wedding. Myself and the OH are only engaged a few weeks but this has become an issue

I am sure this that this has been discussed before when people cant decide how to resolve this conflict.

My OH always wanted to get married in a church when she was growing up. I presume this was down to a fairy tale wedding. But since we got together she has known that I am not religious so she got used to the idea that a church wedding was unlikely.

But since the recent engagement her mother has been asking her what her plan is, she was told that we haven't decided, but started an argument with her over it. Telling her that Civil Ceremonies are not correct. She hasn't been to a humanist wedding so considers them the same.

She told me what happened later and my OH got upset and I agreed that I should give in and allow the ceremony to take place in one of 2 churches. One close to her home and one close to her grannies and not have a full mass. But this limits where we can have the reception.

My reasoning for having a humanist would be the following
- I am not religious - its not just the catholic church, i dont believe in spiritual world - i could be wrong but that is what i think.
- I find sitting at a church wedding for 90 mins is not something i want to do or want my guests to go through. The day is dragged out enough with out the extra 2 hours - if you want to go to mass go on Sunday.
- I don't go to Mass neither does she. I don't want to be a hypocrite. There is an argument that loads of other couples get married in a church who are not religious. I don't care what anyone else does, this is our day and our choice.
- I am angry at her mother for this. My family wouldn't care if I was getting married in a drive thru chapel in Vegas they would still be there for me. I now worry that every decision that we make might have to get the in laws approval.

After I had agreed, she was delighted but woke up thinking I have done the wrong thing. I do need to talk to the OH and perhaps her mother but she won't change her mind, (because what would the neighbours say...)

But I am wondering should I dig my feet in or to just let it go. Any one in a similar boat?

Thanks

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lazygal

obriendj wrote: »

Thanks Lazygal but it has been 5 weeks and there was no contact until a call yesterday when i thought they would have seen what they have done means they are not seeing their daughter. And then to blame her on it when they do eventually talk. It is despicable

They sound toxic, TBH. Who called who? I wouldn't be calling them, I'd leave them to their own devices. If you 'compromise' ie do things they way on this, what else will them stamp their feet about? Let them off to their own devices. People like that are used to emotional blackmail working in their favour. It'll just take some time for them to realise in this case it won't work, if you don't give into them.

pwurple

obriendj wrote: »

I think for this situation they are thinking the same. Convince her then get her to convince me.

Well, if it's 3 against 1.... that's a different thing altogether. Myself and my husband were completely aligned on this, we were not for turning.

Liberalbrehon

Best of luck with your decision. If you want the easy life, just go with the flow, if you think you will regret it during and after then stand your ground, get a blessing in gf's parents house before or after the lawful ceremony. Not to put pressure on you but as other posters have said, your decision will affect choices down the road and your principals. Does your gf want her future husband to be the type of man that bends to the will of others. Respect might go out the window in time?

Gee Male

What's your fiancée's response to this? Is she looking like she wants to cave in to them?

I have a feeling we'll be having a church v humanist ceremony argument pretty soon, except it's going to be my side of the family and I'm genuinely looking forward to explaining why I don't want a RCC ceremony in the archdiocese of Tuam, what with all the dead babies in a septic tank and all.

pwurple

Liberalbrehon wrote: »

Does your gf want her future husband to be the type of man that bends to the will of others. Respect might go out the window in time?

Eh, she may not want a tyrant who can't listen to others either...

OP is doing a decent job of compromise here so far, I'm sure this will get worked out.

Have they divulged their reasons OP, is it 'What will the neighbours think'? or something else?

lazygal

pwurple wrote: »

Eh, she may not want a tyrant who can't listen to others either...

OP is doing a decent job of compromise here so far, I'm sure this will get worked out.

Have they divulged their reasons OP, is it 'What will the neighbours think'? or something else?

He has tried compromising and this has not been enough for the parents of his partner. It sounds like they are used to getting their adult children to bend to their wishes by using emotional blackmail, and then when this doesn't work they step up the guilt trip another gear. I would guess there is no compromise with such people - if they know they can chip away at their daughter's feelings they'll keep doing it until they get what they want.
It doesn't matter what the parents' reasons are - they are irrelevant to the couple who are the ones getting married.

fits

You could look at it like the priest is a legal solemniser like anyone else and just find someone you can live with.

I was the instigator of the non religious ceremony but if my partner had wanted one I would have looked into it with a particular priest i know. I did find it very difficult to upset the parents and would compromise in some way if very necessary. (eg with a blessing). Both sets of parents have been wonderful supports to us all their lives not least because of their christian values and i respect that. But you do have to set boundaries too.

Some people here are very hardline in their views. Do what is right for you and your future wife.

homemadecider

Be careful; if you give in on this, you are setting a precedent for the rest of your married life.

Will they insist you christen your child if you decide not to?
Will they insist on coming to visit every Sunday even if you have other plans?
Will they feel entitled to poke their nose into every big decision you make?

Think long and hard before giving in. Speak to your fiancee, get yourselves on the same team and put up a united front. Most of all, make sure that you enjoy your wedding - it's meant to be a wonderful, happy day for YOU!

Mrs OBumble

This sounds mean - but are you 100% sure you want to marry your fiancé? 'Cos is sounds like there is a whole heap of troublesome family coming with her. If they're like this over the wedding, they'll be like it over lots of other stuff through your lives too. I know you love her - but are you sure that you love her enough to put up with all the crap she comes with?

IMHO it's extremely important that you don't just give in, if you do, you're practically waving goodby to any chance of making independent adult decisions in the rest of your lives.

Her family are waayyy out of order, and are actually demonstrating that they don't have half a clue about what a Catholic marriage is about anyways. And it is most certainly not "just one hour" that they're asking of her, rather it's a lifetime of compromising your principles.

(And I say all this as a fairly hard core left wing once a week attending Catholic!)

lazygal

fits wrote: »

You could look at it like the priest is a legal solemniser like anyone else and just find someone you can live with.

I was the instigator of the non religious ceremony but if my partner had wanted one I would have looked into it with a particular priest i know. I did find it very difficult to upset the parents and would compromise in some way if very necessary. (eg with a blessing). Both sets of parents have been wonderful supports to us all their lives not least because of their christian values and i respect that. But you do have to set boundaries too.

Some people here are very hardline in their views. Do what is right for you and your future wife.

I'm probably hardline in my views alright. But that isn't a bad thing. Our wedding was about us. My mother dropped some heavy hints about a church wedding and said some things about our decision to have the ceremonies we decided on that were very hurtful. She has since admitted that she shouldn't have said a word about our decisions and that our wedding reflected us as a couple.
She has been a great supportive parent, but that's not something to take into account when planning a wedding. You're supposed to support your children and be a good parent, and you can't expect to be able to get your adult children to give into your wishes just because you were being a good parent.
Whenever I hear the word 'compromise' about religious vs non religious weddings, 99% of the time it has to be discussed because someone religious wants something done their way. It's always suggested in these threads that the couple get a blessing, or a 'nice' priest or some other such arrangement to appease the religious person who is causing a hassle. What about telling the religious person to stop imposing their choice of faith on others?

obriendj

Unfortunately the title of this thread is misleading.
It should now read Church vs Humanist but now priest vs deacon & Couple vs In-laws

But I appreciate all the advice. and yes in the long run the decision could play a big part in requesting a favour like babysitting or whatever so it just makes it more difficult.

At the end of the day it will either be they are not happy with me or I wont be happy with them.

Also I dont think my OH will ever think I bend easy to others. I would be stubborn when i believe something is wrong.

fits

lazygal wrote: »

. What about telling the religious person to stop imposing their choice of faith on others?

True but the concerned couple really have to decide between themselves what they want to do and stick to it and stand firm

Its not a decision either person can make in isolation and someone will have to compromise by the sound of it.

obriendj

lazygal wrote: »

What about telling the religious person to stop imposing their choice of faith on others?

obriendj

fits wrote: »

True but the concerned couple really have to decide between themselves what they want to do and stick to it and stand firm

Its not a decision either person can make in isolation and someone will have to compromise by the sound of it.

But fits, we didn't made a decision in isolation, it was a compromise.

fits

obriendj wrote: »

But fits, we didn't made a decision in isolation, it was a compromise.

Fair enough. My comments are a bit out of date as I was commenting on the church vs humanist thing. The parents are being totally unreasonable.

MelanieC

Sorry for going slightly off-topic for a minute but I'm just wondering - is a humanist ceremony legally binding? As in,that's all you need to do? Or is it just more of a blessing thing & you have to get legally married by the state beforehand?
I'm clueless about these things,sorry. Just know,like the OP,I don't want church involvement.

rainbow kirby

MelanieC wrote: »

Sorry for going slightly off-topic for a minute but I'm just wondering - is a humanist ceremony legally binding? As in,that's all you need to do? Or is it just more of a blessing thing & you have to get legally married by the state beforehand?
I'm clueless about these things,sorry. Just know,like the OP,I don't want church involvement.

It is legally binding once you pick a celebrant that is on the list of legally recognised solemnisers.

MelanieC

rainbow kirby wrote: »

It is legally binding once you pick a celebrant that is on the list of legally recognised solemnisers.

Oh right,that's good. Thanks rainbow!

brooke 2

obriendj wrote: »

It might be hard to call their bluff, as if there is a chance that they won't make it - it will be heart breaking for OH.

my OH agreed to we compromise, but shes knows if i was indifferent to the situation she would choose a church with priest. So it seems that they are trying to latch on to that and convince her it is what she always wanted. you know make out that I am leading her astray

I don't know. I really don't.

This is what I wanted to hear....how your
fiancée feels about it. If you were indifferent, she would choose church and
priest.

My sympathies are with your unfortunate
fiancée stuck in the middle between you and her parents. You all sound as stubborn as one another!!

Cocolola

brooke 2 wrote: »

My sympathies are with your unfortunate
fiancée stuck in the middle between you and her parents. You all sound as stubborn as one another!!

It's the OP's wedding too, he is more than entitled to decide (with his partner) how it is conducted. Unlike her parents, who aren't the ones getting married and who shouldn't have any say as far as I'm concerned.

pwurple

obriendj wrote: »

But I appreciate all the advice. and yes in the long run the decision could play a big part in requesting a favour like babysitting or whatever so it just makes it more difficult.

At the end of the day it will either be they are not happy with me or I wont be happy with them.

Also I dont think my OH will ever think I bend easy to others. I would be stubborn when i believe something is wrong.

Favours or babysitting should not come into it... but I do think you should look further into their motives.

Deacon in a church is christianity Lite, which should be far enough for 99% of mainstream irish catholics. Even humanism is christianity lite+.. same values as above but without the deity (ie, a good chunk of what irish catholics subscribe to as well).

I would say they either don't understand it, or are in a What Would the Neighbours Think mode. Both of which can be addressed by speaking about it calmly.

I would not suggest either ditching the fiancee, cutting her parents out of your lives, ignoring eachother, or any of the other whackadoodle suggestions in here.

Break it down rationally, talk about and see each others reasons and motivations.

brooke 2

lazygal wrote: »

He has tried compromising and this has not been enough for the parents of his partner. It sounds like they are used to getting their adult children to bend to their wishes by using emotional blackmail, and then when this doesn't work they step up the guilt trip another gear. I would guess there is no compromise with such people - if they know they can chip away at their daughter's feelings they'll keep doing it until they get what they want.
It doesn't matter what the parents' reasons are - they are irrelevant to the couple who are the ones getting married.

I would not say the parents are irrelevant
to the couple. Unless they are prepared to completely burn bridges, the
parents will be a part if their lives in the future. As OP says his fiancée would be
devastated if her parents did not attend
the wedding, what will her situation be
post wedding if they do not do so?

As I said previously, my sympathies are
with her, caught between two seemingly
intransigent parties.

jackofalltrades

brooke 2 wrote: »

I would not say the parents are irrelevant
to the couple. Unless they are prepared to completely burn bridges, the
parents will be a part if their lives in the future. As OP says his fiancée would be
devastated if her parents did not attend
the wedding, what will her situation be
post wedding if they do not do so?

Nobody said that the parents were irrelevant.
But there comes a point where you have to say No, and really consider if having them in your life is the best for you.

As I said previously, my sympathies are
with her, caught between two seemingly
intransigent parties.

The OP has already compromised to accommodate his OHs parents, which is something he doesn't have to.
He's not being intransigent. You're being very judgemental towards him.

brooke 2

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Nobody said that the parents were irrelevant.
But there comes a point where you have to say No, and really consider if having them in your life is the best for you.

The OP has already compromised to accommodate his OHs parents, which is something he doesn't have to.
He's not being intransigent. You're being very judgemental towards him.

My 'irrelevant' comment was in reply to
lazygal's in which she did say the parents were 'irrelevant'.

The OP himself has admitted that he can
be stubborn. His fiancée's parents also
sound stubborn. My heart goes out to
the poor girl stuck in the middle of all
of them!!

jackofalltrades

brooke 2 wrote: »

My 'irrelevant' comment was in reply to
lazygal's in which she did say the parents were 'irrelevant'.

She said that the parents reasons were irrelevant. Not the actual parents themselves.

The OP himself has admitted that he can be stubborn.
His fiancée's parents also sound stubborn.
My heart goes out to the poor girl stuck in the middle of all of them!!

Yes but he's compromised so that means he isn't intransigent.
You're holding up the two parties as if they're equals. They're not.
The OPs OH's parents opinions are not way near as important as the OPs opinion.
And as much as I have sympathy for the OP's financée, she is the one that can end all of this by standing up to her parents.
She's not the helpless victim you're making her out to be, she's the one who is empowering her parent's opinions.

obriendj

brooke 2 wrote: »

My 'irrelevant' comment was in reply to
lazygal's in which she did say the parents were 'irrelevant'.

The OP himself has admitted that he can
be stubborn. His fiancée's parents also
sound stubborn. My heart goes out to
the poor girl stuck in the middle of all
of them!!

She really is stuck in the middle and its very unfair. I am stubborn but think i know when I should argue or stepdown.

She asked me initially for a Church rather than a humanist and i agreed on the condition of the Deacon. (it may be described as Christianity lite but at the same time most people wont know the difference)

brooke 2

obriendj wrote: »

She really is stuck in the middle and its very unfair. I am stubborn but think i know when I should argue or stepdown.

She asked me initially for a Church rather than a humanist and i agreed on the condition of the Deacon. (it may be described as Christianity lite but at the same time most people wont know the difference)

So, she AND her parents originally wanted a church wedding. You are
the 'fly in the ointment', as it were!
I can empathise with you, if you have
a visceral dislike of priests. But, if you
are digging in your heels just to make a point and 'most people won't know the difference' between priest and deacon,
is it worth all the upset to the woman you
love and the parents whom she clearly
loves (as well as you, of course!) to insist
on getting what you want? We should
choose our battles wisely!!

Having said that, I had wanted to get
married in a particular church a few miles
outside my home village. It was in a fab
location, overlooking the Atlantic Ocean.
However, my father made it clear that I
should get married in the church in which
I had made my First Holy Communion
and Confirmation!! I went along with it,
but still regret I did not get married in the
church of my choice.

Whatever you and your OH decide to do,
I hope it all works out well and that you
both have a wonderful day!!

brooke 2

jackofalltrades wrote: »

She said that the parents reasons were irrelevant. Not the actual parents themselves.
Yes but he's compromised so that means he isn't intransigent.
You're holding up the two parties as if they're equals. They're not.
The OPs OH's parents opinions are not way near as important as the OPs opinion.
And as much as I have sympathy for the OP's financée, she is the one that can end all of this by standing up to her parents.
She's not the helpless victim you're making her out to be, she's the one who is empowering her parent's opinions.

But she initially wanted a church wedding.

jackofalltrades

brooke 2 wrote: »

But, if you are digging in your heels just to make a point and 'most people won't know the difference' between priest and deacon, is it worth all the upset to the woman you love and the parents whom she clearly loves (as well as you, of course!) to insist on getting what you want?

But the OP is not getting what he wants.

He has agreed to his fiancées request for a church wedding.
Which is a comprimise if she always wanted a Catholic wedding, or meeting all her requests, if she just wants the venue to be a Church.

You seem to be arguing that he now meets the demands of his fiancées parents as well, which is just ridiculous.

December2012

Has your fiancé an ally, like an aunt, who can speak with her parents? Somebody who she can go and talk to about how upset she is that they are dictating her wedding and not supporting her marriage choices? I don't mean somebody who will make it worse, I mean somebody who they might listen to?