blatantrereg wrote: » Russia is a police state again. it's invading parts of Europe again. A police state in the sense that people who criticise the government too much are routinely being arrested on trumped up charges. Look it up; it is happening. Garry Kasparov is a famous example, who was beaten and arrested outside the Pussy Riot trial. Mind boggles at the "Putin is better than Obama" comments.
fergus1001 wrote: » Clearly you haven't heard about the water protest people being thrown in mountjoy.
Egginacup wrote: » Nah, that's bollocks. If you go to any part of Russia you'll find beautiful gold-dripping women and also starving peasants. But you won't find "arrest without trial, detention without conviction or any old men getting tased and slammed head first into the concrete as the obese thugs scream at him "STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING" " That's a police state.
JacquesDeLad wrote: » What a load of crap. NATO wouldn't have any reason to exist if Russia wasn't going round threatening and invading it's neighbours.
The fact is they are going to intervene until they are certain that there is no prospect of Ukraine becoming a member of NATO. And all of the threats by NATO and so on to sort of increase defenses elsewhere is simply provocative to the Russians. Now, I’m not saying that’s right, but I am saying that’s the way Russia is going to react. And frankly, this is all predictable. And those of us who helped negotiate the end of the Cold War almost unanimously said in the 1990s, “Do not expand NATO eastward. Find a different way to protect eastern Europe, a way that includes Russia. Otherwise, eventually there’s going to be a confrontation, because there is a red line, as far as any Russian government is concerned, when it comes to Ukraine and Georgia and other former republics of the Soviet Union.” When the Berlin Wall came down, when eastern Europe began to try to free itself from the Communist rule, the first President Bush, George Herbert Walker Bush, met with Gorbachev in Malta, and they made a very important statement. One was we were no longer enemies. The second was the Soviet Union would not intervene in eastern Europe to keep Communist rule there. And in response, the United States would not take advantage of that. Now, this was a—you might say, a gentlemen’s agreement between Gorbachev and President Bush. It was one which was echoed by the other Western leaders—the British prime minister, the German chancellor, the French president. As we negotiated German unity, there the question was: Could a united Germany stay in NATO? At first, Gorbachev said, “No, if they unite, they have to leave NATO.” And we said, “Look, let them unite. Let them stay in NATO. But we will not extend NATO to the territory of East Germany.” Well, it turned out that legally you couldn’t do it that way, so in the final agreement it was that all of Germany would stay in NATO, but that the territory of East Germany would be special, in that there would be no foreign troops—that is, no non-German troops—and no nuclear weapons. Now, later—at that time, the Warsaw Pact was still in place. We weren’t talking about eastern Europe. But the statements made were very general. At one point, Secretary Baker told Gorbachev NATO jurisdiction would not move one inch to the east. Well, he had the GDR in mind, but that’s not what he said specifically. So, yes, if I had been asked when I was ambassador of the United States in Moscow in 1991, “Is there an understanding that NATO won’t move to the east?” I would have said, “Yes, there is.” However, it was not a legal commitment, and one could say that once the Soviet Union collapsed, any agreement then maybe didn’t hold, except that when you think about it, if there was no reason to expand NATO when the Soviet Union existed, there was even less reason when the Soviet Union collapsed and you were talking about Russia. And the reason many of us—myself, George Kennan, many of us—argued against NATO expansion in the ’90s was precisely to avoid the sort of situation we have today. It was totally predictable. If we start expanding NATO, as we get closer to the Russian border, they are going to consider this a hostile act. And at some point, they will draw a line, and they will do anything within their power to keep it from going any further. That’s what we’re seeing today.
Egginacup wrote: » Anyway, it appears that Russia will be providing energy free of charge to the Eastern provinces of the Ukraine whilst doubling the price to Kiev. So Novorrusians will be warm all Spring while the vermin in Kiev who tried to ethnically cleanse them will be struggling to keep the lights on. Hate that, Poroshenko. Are your wife and kids safe in Florida yet? You might want to step down now, Chocolate-boy. Hate that, Kiev!!http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150226/1018780520.html
B_Wayne wrote: » Using terms like 'vermin' for a people is basically straight out of a fascist cookbook. First, choose people to blame all your problems on. Then make them subhuman, something to be destroyed. Maggots, vermin, rats etc would be common words to describe them. Egginacup, you've shown your true colours and it's not a very nice sight.
Egginacup wrote: » Funny isn't it...they weren't banged up for protesting the government they were incarcerated for protesting against a private company that the Irish government now pay live service to. What's even more funny is the people who whine about where their taxes go but don't say boo when their money is simply taken out of their hand. There are people who actually believe that water and its delivery systems suddenly became expensive 3 years ago. But that's Ireland for you.Can't wait to move to a place where people question being fcuked.
InTheTrees wrote: » He's a dictator. Thats why he can be equated to the other russian dictators. He's trampled on the russian constitution to the point where he can stay in power indefinitely, jumping between Prime Minister and President every few "elections".
Egginacup wrote: » But that's Ireland for you. Can't wait to move to a place where people question being fcuked.
Elmer Blooker wrote: » How confusing? I just can't figure out why Putin is a dictator and this charming man isn't? Even more confusing that none of you have ever heard of him!http://www.ibtimes.com/azerbaijan-repressive-corrupt-country-west-loves-there-must-be-oil-704066
JacquesDeLad wrote: » What a load of crap. NATO wouldn't have any reason to exist if Russia wasn't going round threatening and invading it's neighbours. I used to think the US, through NATO, was the aggressor during the Cold War and long hoped it would disband. For all it's faults the Soviet Union was guided by some nobel ideals. Putin on the other hand is just a gangster with terrifying similarities to other monstrous dictators of the last century. I'm now very thankful NATO still exists and just hope they aren't slow in providing a deterrent on the ground to any more Russian aggression. As for analogies it's more like a rapist being confronted before he does it to someone else.
average hero wrote: » Which part of my post exactly was a load of crap? As I stated, I'm no big fan of Putin. But tell me, why is the US supplying arms to Kiev to use against Eastern Ukrainians? Surely, they should be promoting a diplomatic, peaceful solution? Why did Senator (?) Nuland state 'f**k the EU' in that leaked phone call? I too, on balance, am glad that NATO exists. Russia is a dodgy character too. With this being said, this is a proxy war between two countries/blocs who are chasing 'interests'. Putin and Russia are defending what they see as their own interests and on merit, have more of a claim of influence over the place in my opinion. I am actually pro-West, but I can also see what is going on.
average hero wrote: » But tell me, why is the US supplying arms to Kiev to use against Eastern Ukrainians?
average hero wrote: » Surely, they should be promoting a diplomatic, peaceful solution?
average hero wrote: » Why did Senator (?) Nuland state 'f**k the EU' in that leaked phone call?
average hero wrote: » I too, on balance, am glad that NATO exists. Russia is a dodgy character too.
average hero wrote: » Putin and Russia are defending what they see as their own interests and on merit, have more of a claim of influence over the place in my opinion.
average hero wrote: » I am actually pro-West, but I can also see what is going on.
average hero wrote: » Which part of my post exactly was a load of crap?
pcardin wrote: » Erm, there's no evidence US supplying any arms to Ukraine however there's a plenty of evidence Russia supplying arms to criminal terrorist gangs in Eastern Ukraine. Ukrainian army is using whatever arms they have to defend their country against invaders. Isn't that something any other country would do?! Perhaps not quite yet, however they are sending armoured vehicles and troops to Ukraine. http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/land/army/2015/01/21/ukraine-us-army-russia/22119315/ The UK are considering support too. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-31620511 Ha ha but it is a peaceful diplomatic solution for now, nobody has invaded Russia yet, there are no american troops in Ukraine either. There are however Russian troops there. Americans have been spotted on the ground in Ukraines. Videos are available on the internet of them. Because we asked him to so Russians can stick their nose in none of their business. :pac::D Senator Nuland is a woman. She meant it in a derogotary way. At least some agreement. And for a moment it looks we hold your hand.... ...but here we lost you again. What is happening in other countries is not fcuking Russia's business unless those countries want that to be that way. Fair enough point in isolation but when a country/neighbour is in turmoil, there tends to be a response. Particularly when you identify some of the civilians in those areas as being ethnically your own. This is exacerbated by the history of the place and break up of the Soviet Union. Sorry, but with exception of NATO bit you seem to be all pro-Russian. Red cells hard to over beat. :rolleyes:
average hero wrote: » *SOME POINTS ARE IN THE QUOTE ABOVE, SORRY I BUTCHERED THE QUOTE FUNCTION * It may come across that way and I understand how you may construe that but all I can say is that I am not and that is it. The way I see it is that protests instigated a flight of a democratically elected leader (bastard though he was). These protests were started by 'elements' backed by the West. There's no denying that they were backed by fascist gangs. Happened during the Cold War in Europe too (Operation Gladio etc). Putin moved to keep Crimea because it was the easiest to seize and also the naval base there is crucial to Russia's geo-strategic standings in a military sense. This is also being played out in Syria as Russia has a base there. So, what is happening is that the Ukrainian people are suffering due to two blocs going at it. I feel sorry for them. Anyhow, I'm tipping out of this thread. Enjoy your evening folks!
pcardin wrote: » For all Kremlin groupies here on Boards who swear Putin is great and Russia is a naturally democratic country, paradise on planet Earth blah blah blah... Today Boris Nemcov was killed. One of the biggest critics of Putin and Putin's regime. This is how they deal. Same methods as per Stalin, same methods as per Hitler. Pretty sure Americans and Washington will be automatically blamed. Who else, of course.... :rolleyes: For those who don't know who Boris Nemcov was please have a read here.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Nemtsov
B_Wayne wrote: » This is clearly mainstream media misrepresenting, it will surely be dealt with fairly and Putin had no involvement.
Egginacup wrote: » Why wouldn't you be a fan of Putin? A shower of bitches in the West who are trying to paint him as a "Hitler" or some crap. A shower of sad bastards who can con out weaklings like Saddam Hussein or Ghadaffi are reduced to whinging about Pussy Riot or some other lame nonsense. They even tried to "prove" that he and his military shot down a passenger airliner and can't provide a smidgen of proof. They slap illegal sanctions on Russia without any explanation and still Vladimir Putin, as cool as an Arctic cucumber, absorbs the blows. Sets up a new bank with the Chinese, creates the new Silk Road and again being cool doesn't lose his rag.....he just cuts off gas to Ukraine. It's a beautiful thing.
