Jimmy Garlic wrote: » Crimea was part of Ukraine in name only. The vast majority of people there speak Russian and identify as Russian. They didn't want to be part of Ukraine anymore and quite frankly it was the best decision they ever made. Khrushchevs silly mistake needed to be undone. Donetsk, Lugansk and most likely Odessa will also completely split from Ukraine one way or another. The murderous puppet regieme in Kiev with their actions have guaranteed that these regions will no longer be a part of Ukraine in any way, shape, or form in the very near future.
Egginacup wrote: » Grayson, If Russia had invaded the Ukraine then don't you think they would have smashed their way to Kiev in perhaps a week? Russian troops and bombers and tanks could have had Lviv, Kiev and all of the country in 48 hours. That, one would expect, would be the objective if you invade a country. If you invade a country isn't the object to engulf the entire land? Wouldn't the first thing be to knock out ground artillery? Next, to destroy all forms of communications? Next, to impose all forms of border control and seizure of anyone who you deem suspicious? I don't see any Russian troops operating checkpoints in Ukraine. I don't see any Russian attack planes blasting Ukrainian targets around the capital. Do you? Where is this huge Russian "invasion"? There isn't one.
Grayson wrote: » That's what's called a false dichotomy. The idea you're presenting is that Russia can only invade Ukraine if it takes all of it over in a traditional land war. You know that's not the case. It's also trying to change the topic by ignoring Crimea and instead focussing on a different location. Lets try a simple syllogism... 1) Russia did send troops into Crimea. Putin has admitted that the little green men were russian special forces. 2) Crimea was part of Ukraine. Therefore Russia invaded the territory of another country. Russia invaded Ukraine.
Egginacup wrote: » That's just a technicality but it is also irrelevant. Russian troops were stationed in Crimea as part of an agreement with Ukraine. When NATO orchestrated the fascist coup in Kiev their aim was to draw Ukraine out of Russia's orbit and into NATO as part of a broader plan to militarily surround, weaken and ultimately break up Russia into a collection of weak, semi-autonomous vassal states that could be easily controlled. The first step would of course be to seize Sevastapol while it was still geographically part of Ukraine. This would have been a disaster for Russia as it would have lost them the home of their Black Sea fleet and access to the Mediterannean/Suez. Putin was never going to allow this to happen and while he could just as easily have invaded Crimea he insisted on holding a referendum. The people voted in favour of returning to Russia and the rest is history. People can cry all they want about unfair elections, dirty tricks, invasions, and all that other sh1t which basically amounts to a temper-tantrum laden case of sour grapes. Putin outsmarted the neocon assholes in Washington and they are fuming. Nobody can provide evidence of rigged elections despite swearing blindly that it is the case. Nevermind that they have no problem with rigged elections if the result is the one they want. Why would Putin trust a single person in Washington after what they have been doing since 1990? Double-crossing and betraying at every turn. As it stands the Ukrainian army is now in disarray and no amount of supplies of weapons from Washington is going to help them. In fact the Ukrainian public are growing ever more impatient with the fascists in Kiev. Many of them have relatives and friends in the East who have suffered under artillery bombardment from Kiev forces. Discipline is also a problem as is command. There's no one unifying command. Different units are communication with each other via mobile phone rather than with encrypted radio channels. They're also using fucking Twitter to rant about their experiences, whereabouts, etc. They are a debacle. But it doesn't surprise me. Everything that the geniuses in Washington touch turns to shit. They think they can just snap their fingers and lo and behold an army will fight to the death for them and do as they say. And when it doesn't quite happen the way they erroneously said it would they blame everyone but their own naivete and stupidity.
Irish Praetorian wrote: » I responded with an elegant way of saying 'who gives a damn' - have you nothing to add?
Just as we have seen the balkanization of Yugoslavia, Libya, and Iraq by US-NATO it appears that the same strategy has been developed for Russia. With NATO’s continuing military encirclement of Russia the plan appears to be to draw Moscow into a military quagmire in Ukraine that will weaken that nation. The Rand Corporation has studies that call for the break-up of Russia into many smaller pieces thus giving western corporations better access to the vast resource base available there.pipr.co.uk
Karl Stein wrote: » Elegant? That's funny. The Russians give a damn. They see NATO encroachment as a threat - that's how it is. We Europeans should give a damn because Washington and Moscow's brinkmanship is threatening to destabilise Europe. You'll be aware that US-Russian relations began to sour around the time the Moscow started taking control of their oil and gas resources. Now nationalist Russia has replaced the Soviet Union as the menace in the east. You might also be aware that Bush unilaterally withdrew from the anti-ABM treaty in 2002 and planned to put a missile defence system in Eastern Europe. The Russians were set to decommission hundreds of nuclear warheads in 2007 but instead chose to renovate them.
Deleted User wrote: » I think in the Western media they like to create a narrative where Russia is the "bad" guy and the US is the "good" guys, and too few journalist try to challenge that world view, unless you switch the TV over to RT.
Irish Praetorian wrote: » By NATO encroachment you mean those small things called independent countries outside Russia's borders expanding into a defensive alliance and an economic union?
And you want to make the argument that we could have avoided these kinds of situations by simply conceding Eastern Europe.
I'll close with this; for all Bush's many, MANY, faults, he did at least have the decency to piss off once his term expired - how much longer do you imagine we will have to wait for us to say the same of Putin?
P.S. Could you expand on you're argument about US-Russia relations and the oil industry?
Karl Stein wrote: » Yes they're outside Russia's borders but would be considered buffer states between East and West and their joining NATO is viewed as encroachment by Moscow.
Pause for a second. There is a puppet government in Crimea that seized power at the point of a gun and is run by a party that won 4% of the vote at the last election. The streets are filled with menacing militia given arms but no training, supported by a variety of lethal-looking paramilitary groups and thousands of Russian soldiers who can be seen even on rooftops. Meanwhile events are dictated quite blatantly by Moscow; visitors to the Crimean prime minister's office say even his private secretary and press aide are from Russia, along with other advisers telling him what to do. Throw in the closure of critical television channels, the beating of a few journalists, the intimidation of opposition activists, the lies about "provocations", and you get some of the backdrop to Sunday's vote. The referendum, forced through as fast as possible to confuse voters and outwit opponents, failed to offer Crimeans the status quo choice of remaining loyal to Kiev. Given such circumstances, it was little surprise it was boycotted by fearful Tartars and Ukrainians, who comprise more than one-third of the population. Indeed, not one person I spoke to over the past week who opposed the ballot intended to vote. ....... Before anyone rushes to accept this vote, they might also like to note the most recent poll in Crimea – published last month – showed just 41% wanted unity with Russia. This was a rise of five points in a year, and was taken as the violence flared in Kiev, but it makes it impossible to assume a majority really wanted to join Russia – let alone 97% of the population. It is also worth recalling that when the Soviet Union collapsed, a majority in Crimea endorsed Ukrainian independence – although its economic performance has been disastrous and millions have moved away these past two decades.
Karl Stein wrote: » I think you might be mistaking me for an admirer of Putin. I think the guy is a thug. He isn't nuts though and is acting rationally in terms of Russian interests despite being portrayed as a loose-cannon by the woeful mainstream media.
Cool Mo D wrote: » Except it's irrelevant what Moscow thinks. They are independent countries, free to join whatever organisation they like. Moscow doesn't get a say. Maybe if Moscow didn't act like it gets a say in what the Baltic countries are allowed to do and treated them as equals, they wouldn't go running to NATO as insurance against Russian troops turning up on their streets.
Karl Stein wrote: » Yes they're outside Russia's borders but would be considered buffer states between East and West and their joining NATO is viewed as encroachment by Moscow. Also the Russian have serious interests in Eastern Ukraine as regards its own defence. To imagine that Ukraine being incorporated into the West's sphere of influence while Russia watched would be pretty thick.
Concede? They weren't ours to concede in the first place. I think these states declaring themselves non-aligned and neutral while opening themselves up to development by European industry would serve them best as regards theirs and European stability. I also think Europe needs to develop military/security independence from the US so it can assert itself in its own back yard.
I think you might be mistaking me for an admirer of Putin. I think the guy is a thug. He isn't nuts though and is acting rationally in terms of Russian interests despite being portrayed as a loose-cannon by the woeful mainstream media.
Russia depends heavily on oil and gas revenues to fund itself as a state. There's an unwritten rule in Russia that if you stay out of politics you can keep your business interests but if you cross the Kremlin you're finished. See: Mikhail Khodorkovsky. The US viewed Moscow's appropriating oil and gas businesses as Russia asserting itself as a serious regional power.
Cool Mo D wrote: » Except it's irrelevant what Moscow thinks.
Maybe if Moscow didn't act like it gets a say in what the Baltic countries are allowed to do and treated them as equals, they wouldn't go running to NATO as insurance against Russian troops turning up on their streets.
Karl Stein wrote: » It quite obviously is relevant what Moscow thinks unless you've been living under a rock for the last few years. The Baltic states have unfortunately become pawns on a bigger board where the US and Russia are moving the pieces. As I've I've said no about three time Russians see NATO encroachment as a threat and trying to move Ukraine into was bound to illicit a response.
pcardin wrote: » both epic liars but one of them is with manners and always wears suit and other one is half-human half-animal
pcardin wrote: » well that's a faith of small countries like Baltic States, always being taken by someone
Karl Stein wrote: » But Putin likes to cuddle puppies so he can't be all that bad!
Jimmy Garlic wrote: » He has to be one of the greatest leaders the world has ever known, not just a stuffed suit like his wooden American counterpart. His steadfast resolve in the face of a proxy war being waged in Ukraine has to be admired, a war that would never have happened if billions weren't poured into Ukraine to kickstart a coup. Like him or loathe him there is no doubt that Vladimir Putin is a very shrewd operator who is consistently one step ahead of the game.
Wurzelbert wrote: » reckon that’s been posted around here somewhere already...
fergus1001 wrote: » The worst .......
Is the song ironic, or a tribute to Putin? King: It’s most definitely a tribute.
colossus-x wrote: » Vladimir Putin is wrecking his own country and everybody knows it.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wc.vanillicon.com/v2/c9236bc67b608c3603b1ed089c896282.svg)
