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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1

InchicoreDude

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Motivator wrote: »

What a ridiculous comment, these players are on the Waterford panel because they're the best players in the county. Michael Ryan's job is to pick the best players available to him, against Clare he did that & yet you're blaming him because the players he picked couldn't score on the day? What a bull**** argument. Against Clare it just didn't happen on the day for Waterford, & I suppose you're going to blame Michael Ryan for Moran's U12 primary game type error that led to the 2nd Clare goal are you?

I dont know enough about the ins and outs of the Waterford situation so the following is my opinion not specific to Waterford!

However, I do find it an easy way out for some managers when they say "Players hit wides and I cant control that". I remember Brian Kerr had a similar defence whe he said it wasnt his fault that John O'Shea made a mistake in a match against Israel. But yes, managers do have to take some responsibility for players of this standard making mistakes. Sure, mistakes will always happen and players will always hit wides. But a part of the managers job is to encourage his players, build confidence in players, get the player playing at the top of their game. When they do this, the player will make less mistakes.

So a manager has to accept some responsibility for how a player performs. And how his team performs.

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conditioned games

Dillon's best position is anywhere in the full forward line, he can score goals and is more of a finisher which is why he is better closer to goal. However when he is played it seems to always be in the half forward line where he doesn't have the height.

Brick is not a full forward and is wasted there. He is a natural defender and has done an excellant job manning the central back position over the years.

Austin Gleeson at 19/20 years old does not have the physical body yet to hold down the central back position. He is very good at picking off long range points and heading for goal when space opens up. Therefore he would be more effective in the half forwards, an area we dont have a whole load of options in.

All last year and again the last day we still have the same problem of not creating enough goal chances. Only one I remember being created against Limerick. In 70 minutes of hurling there needs to be at least 3 or 4 chances created and if they are to push on then this area badly needs attention.

letowski

I think Dillon can still come good for ye guys despite his form. He has alot of skill and is accurate with his shooting. I think full forward might be his best for him, as he could make a clinical finisher in the position.

stumblingblock

archieknox wrote: »

Shane Bennett at this stage even is a better option and can offer so much more.

Maybe but having a leaving cert student so heavily involved in the panel and team at this time of year is utterly ludicrous imo. Makes no sense. Where is the consideration for the players welfare. I thought mcgrath himself being a teacher might have some bit of a more practical view.....

Mountainlad

stumblingblock wrote: »

Maybe but having a leaving cert student so heavily involved in the panel and team at this time of year is utterly ludicrous imo. Makes no sense. Where is the consideration for the players welfare. I thought mcgrath himself being a teacher might have some bit of a more practical view.....

They did it with Declan Hannon in Limerick as far as I know but Id agree, especially with mocks on recently. That said, I suppose its the parent and Childs responsibility to make themselves available or not at the end of the day. Hes not being forced to play I guess.

Fireball07

Mountainlad wrote: »

They did it with Declan Hannon in Limerick as far as I know but Id agree, especially with mocks on recently. That said, I suppose its the parent and Childs responsibility to make themselves available or not at the end of the day. Hes not being forced to play I guess.

Hannon played the league in 2011, but then left the squad to focus on his Leaving Cert, and came back in when it was over.

3ships

Listening to McGrath on radio last night:

Looks like Dara Fives tore the hamstring again in that challenge v Clare. Very frustrating for him. Especially as management put a high premium on him having a good pre season. The prognosis is 5/6 weeks. 2 more in that time frame are Daniels and Barrett. They may get a run out in a challenge v Tipp next weekend and will see from there. Those 3 would be unlikely to feature in the league at this stage, still time for Championship (fingers crossed).
Outside of that Dunford (Shoulder) and Shan (ankle) should be back in March. Donnelly and SOS are ok I think. Its hoped the panel will be fit by april.

Phillip Mahony and Jake Dillon also were 50/50 for tonight so may see one change there later. Thats about 10/11 injury issues for tonight and here's me thinking Limerick were struggling ..... the poor craters.

On positions don't mind too much at this stage. Dillon def near the goal, did quite well there in WCC v Limerick. Of all the quality Half backs we have only one is a class forward, Aussie.Brick has his service done and he might be enjoying it in attack for now, still can't help thinking we will need his ball winning quality up there (at some stage). Its worth a look, for now.

Wary enough of Laois given time of year. If there is anything about them they'll have to show it tonight. They will be sore from last week and now look like favs for a relegation play-off rather than a tasty QF v Kilkenny so they'll be pumped up. For Waterford the pre season progress has been good, but you feel the emphasis was getting something up in Limerick so just hope they can continue focus for now. A couple of goals should see them alright if not bring on them Bennetts.

Funfair

live stream here....http://firstrowir.eu/watch/323204/1/watch-gaa:-waterford-vs-laois.html#

KevIRL

How was that not a point for gleeson

archieknox

Poor first half. Brick and Aussie playing well,O Halloran winning a few frees but that's it. Kearney hasn't actually touched the ball in 37 mins of hurling! That takes some doing. We are lucky Laois have had so many wides or we could be be behind at half-time.

PTH2009

Not playing well. Hopefully much better in the second half, wish we had Zane Keenan playing for us

archieknox

That's more like it in the second half. The sending off finished the game as any sort of a contest but its job done and move on to the next one. Definitely some positives to be taken from the second half,professionally done and a tally of 3.10 in that half is a very good return.
For all of Aussie's good play these shots from distance have to be curtailed. There needs to be more of an end product from his forward bursts rather than no end product like several attempts tonight. Roll on Tullamore though where i think you will not see Kearney or Devine starting after both have had poor games to date.

PTH2009

Good win tonight. Offaly will be a hard test. Offaly beating Wexford tomorrow would be a good result for us, I can't see Antrim beating limerick.

KevIRL

PTH2009 wrote: »

Good win tonight. Offaly will be a hard test. Offaly beating Wexford tomorrow would be a good result for us, I can't see Antrim beating limerick.

You must be thrilled with the win and the huge margin of victory given the amount of $hite you've posted here over the past year or so about how laois could beat us.

PTH2009

KevIRL wrote: »

You must be thrilled with the win and the huge margin of victory given the amount of $hite you've posted here over the past year or so about how laois could beat us.

Thought Laois were a better team. Can see Laois causing limerick and Wexford trouble.

Antrim won't be easy but at home we should be able for them.

I'm off work on the weekend of the quarters and we will prob get Galway away lol. So won't see that game live

Alf Tupper

archieknox wrote: »

That's more like it in the second half. The sending off finished the game as any sort of a contest but its job done and move on to the next one. Definitely some positives to be taken from the second half,professionally done and a tally of 3.10 in that half is a very good return.
For all of Aussie's good play these shots from distance have to be curtailed. There needs to be more of an end product from his forward bursts rather than no end product like several attempts tonight. Roll on Tullamore though where i think you will not see Kearney or Devine starting after both have had poor games to date.

Would more or less agree with all the above.

Very disappointed with Kearney especially. To get on no ball in two outings is terrible. This type of going should suit Devine because he's not the quickest in his wrists or his legs but he has struggled in both games too.

Aussie needs to be reined in for the good of the team. As of now he is too individualistic and not enough of a team player. He is a wonderful talent but he needs to be mentored.

Jake Dillon actually looks overweight and just can't seem to get to the pitch of the ball. Thomas Connors achieved much more in his brief cameo. Donie Breathnach and himself injected pace and thrust when they came on.

Also, I can't see why Shane Fives was substituted. He was comfortable all evening and made no mistakes. There were at least three more candidates that should have got the curly finger before him but as we know by now, that's never going to happen under this regime.

Paudie and Brick were brilliant all through and especially when the game was close in the first half. I would hate to lose either of them to injury.

Shane Bennett was a major plus. He was a handful all evening, took his goal brilliantly and could have had another two.

O'Halloran also showed up well in patches.

Laois however, were just terrible and it's difficult to see them winning any game at this stage.

Going on form, after two games, Kearney, Devine and Dillon will probably lose out for the next game.

tomwaterford

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Going on form, after two games, Kearney, Devine and Dillon will probably lose out for the next game.

for who though??

TheScoringGoal

While laois were dreadful they also are dreadful to play against with their ultra defensive system. It makes it extremely difficult for forwards to shine while some backs get an easy run.

On Gleeson, the sky is the limit for him. Some of his fielding was magnificent. While the end product of his runs was poor, he visibly argued he didn't get the movement he wanted in front of him. Personally at this stage I'd move him to midfield. However I'd also have brick full back so I may be in the minority

Alf Tupper

tomwaterford wrote: »

for who though??

Ryan Donnelly is a better option than all three and has had no game time. I see he was playing for the U21s during the week. He was treated terribly by McGrath last year so I hope he hasn't fallen foul again.

I'd give Thomas Connors a start also. He's a bit raw and not everyone's cup of tea but he's direct and definitely more effective than what is there.

After that, I would push Aussie up to the half forward line for a few games, I think it might suit both himself and the team. Paudie Prendergast could then start wing back.

taytobreath

jamsie o connor said it would be a tight game. jeasussssssss. are waterford gone that bad

Ropaire

taytobreath wrote: »

jamsie o connor said it would be a tight game. jeasussssssss. are waterford gone that bad

He has to say stuff like that to try and generate interest in the game, we were 1/8 to win which tells you all you need to know. To be fair, at the end Jamesie said us and Limerick were prob the best two teams in the division and we'd been unlucky not to win last week.

Laois were dire tonight, second half was good from us though. No issue with it in the forwards but not loving the short passes in defense putting lads under pressure, that cost us come championship time last year and we wont get away with it against a team playing at higher intensity. Early days yet tho, plenty to work on but progress all the same.

Limestone1

taytobreath wrote: »

jamsie o connor said it would be a tight game. jeasussssssss. are waterford gone that bad

Is Jamsie gone that bad !!!

archieknox

Brick's influence on this game was huge when you see the amount of possession /plays the man was involved in. Scored 0.1 and was involved in 2 of the 3 goals aswell. But his overall distribution and ball retention was excellent also. As i said on in a previous post Shane Bennett even at this early stage has to start. On another night he could have had 3 goals but it was his movement when originally slipping for his goal was fabulous to watch. People have mentioned his leaving cert exam and i agree but as someone else stated Declan Hannon played for Limerick while sitting it and also did Andrew O Shaughnessy. It is hard to see why Shane Fives was replaced as none of the fullback line were tested at any stage so i am presuming it was an enforced replacement or was it just to give paudie Prendergast a run out?
Great display from paudie o Mahoney aswell,his ball striking looks so effortless at times but his movements across the half forward line was working very well throughout. We'll have to expect a more sterner physical challenge in 2 weeks time from Offaly,a tricky tie,one that while confident we should win,will not be as easy as last night.

stumblingblock

If gleeson is to make it into a top top player he needs to start realising that he is playing in a team. the long mazy solo runs which look spectacular but more often than not yield to nothing have been prevalent since his underage days. As harsh as it may sound but he contributed to waterford blowing a munster minor title 2 years ago. The drawn game in 2013 he went off on a 100 yard run instead of simply tapping the ball over the bar or laying off to someone in a better position to seal the game he eventually just ran into traffic. Lost the ball and limerick subsequently went down the field and scored a late goal. At the time you would just write it off as youthful exuberence but its a bit frustrating that its still seems to be happening after hes broken through at senior level. My opinion on the lad is that hes the most complete all round hurler to break through since ken mcgrath. But he still has a longway to go if he is to reach that calibre. Maybe derek mcgrath needs to start nurturing him better instead of constantly blowing smoke of his h##e

westcork blue

I thought Tom Devine was ok last night, Philip Mahoney positioning and use of the ball was excellent when he switched with Aussie. I agree with comments on Aussie, incredibly talented but some poor use of the ball. Hopefully he'll mature quickly. Teams are going to target him with late hits and taps as well. Right now it might be better to play him in the forwards while he develops.

Overall happy with team progress, Maurice, Steven Bennett, Dunford and Donnelly to boost forward options, dara fives and Steven Daniels to boost backs. As things stand you'd fancy us to beat Offaly and Antrim, the game versus Wexford looks like our greatest test. Not sure where setanta got there attendance number of 3000, I'd say there was 1000 at most. Hopefully fans start coming back.

Fred C Dobbs

Demolition job completed, all roads now lead to Tullamore. Laois's game plan, packing the defence and shooting from distance, didn't really go to plan. Waterford defenders, well, didn't have much defending to do ; at least they got some sea air, though SOK could have caught frostbite.

Agree with other comments about Aussie ; I would play him I'm midfield / up front as he ball winning ability and buckets of courage. Where did Moran do ..... sneak off the pitch, hide in the dark and come back on near the end ? Brick was his usual solid self though seems to have a phobia about swinging the hurley more than once in any one game.

Devine (de veen ?) showed up more than last week ; subs made an impression too. Lastly, what a performance by Mahony ; he did what Richie Hogan does for KK, popping up all over the place and slotting over points (right and left), while making it look easy.

suitcasepink

Any word on when Dunford should be back?

Mountainlad

deise_girl wrote: »

Any word on when Dunford should be back?

3ships said yesterday March

mickotallow

How did the 21's get on against Roanmore?

Waternut

Big congratulations to Kilmacthomas in the Senior Munster C School hurling final. Great work being done in the school and hopefully a number of them will push through to the Waterford minor team.

Horseboxhead

Jesus this game is gone fair tactical, it was like all the managers of every team met over the Christmas and decided how they could Possibly make it far less interesting to watch hurling, this was coming, as we have been seeing it on and off now for about 2/3 years, but now it seems to be the blue print on how to win games, defend deep, put numbers behind the ball, pack half back lines and pack even full back lines, create space and overlaps and accurate shooting win games, i wish it wouldn't though, and before anyone says otherwise everybody is at it, just some teams make it look more straight jacketed,Laois had it so much that there plan A,B,C,AND D is defend and shoot from distance, and up to the sending off we did the same at home to Laois [no disrespect intended as blah, blah blah,hurling county,doing their best with what they have type ****e], and we were three points up when Laois had a player sent off[deserved it, but could have gone for a foul 5 min before actual sending off], This is how the game is now so get on with it, don't have to like it though.
The system we played in the first half, it had a few glitches , one Soky has to hit the corner back in the chest everytime with puck outs or your immediatly under pressure which results in Barry coughlan taking a ball standing and having to break cover with no build up and with that ref he'll blow for over carrying just for attention, this results in the ball being fonged into the full forward line as happened to often with no direction it made Kearney and devine look lazy and either too light[kearney], or too slow [devine], it has no room for the type of individualism that mark either the greats or the not good enoughs, and at the moment at 19 years of age ,Austin gleeson has to make a decision does he utilise all the god given ability and talent and physique , at his disposal or does he turn into a side show, and he has to do it now as he is now dancing with the big boys and not playing U18 b for Mount sion where everybody is rubbing his balls, now don't get me wrong he did well, but in a tight game when every score matters his three runs[and lost the ball in the opposing half forward line ], and the trying to hit 6 points a game and score two, if he laid off two balls out of three and put two balls don the line rather than 4 wides we'd be saying, Did anyone see that display ?, he is top top drawer, and i believe he'll do it, and also stop over reacting to stuff that should not bother you, we've seen that before and it just screams look at me arn't i the dogs**** ?, this lad has amazing and i mean amazing potential , but he needs to become a man now and do it, and cut out the silly stuff, don't want to be talking about it in 5 years time, when he is still at the same level doing the same things.
Brick is some man,Enough said, Moran had a 10 Min spell where he lucked hungry and decided he had enough, de burca is one serious ,quality ,wonderfull ability , really brave and committed strong excellent hurler and has good feet too, he is going to have some year, he broke a wing forward after 20 min with a fair shoulder, and his hurling and striking are a joy, had a pot shot or two himself, but most of his deliveries were into space or guided into waterford hands, he is up there already as one of our top guys, and a half back line of him , fives as a centre back[he would be out Seanie McMahon if he could get a run going ] and gleeson would be the envy of any county, i Would have the very competent Phillip Mahony at midfield with brick , and i would not change it for the year, there is a five that would compete with the best.
Laois are a physical side , but will never beat anyone away as, they lack quality scoring forwards , 18 wides the week before, 8/9/10 prior to half time last sat night, never looked like getting a goal, but were still there at half time, and we can talk about late in the game and ,opening up defences tiring ect, but it was not going to happen, we would have won but by about 4/5 points, when we should be winning by 10, were lucky in terms of our scoring avarage, but hard to watch and i don't know does it have to be as rigid.
On wards now to offaly , antrim and wexford, and bar wexford[who i still think we should be beating], we will be there or there about, i am really looking forward to having a full panal, as i don't believe we will be too far away, with a bit of luck this year could be very good, and i am with alot on here i really believe donnolly has something to offer , and daniels has been out so long i think everybody has forgotton how good he was two years ago, our panel is rounding out, and with the exception of molumphy and maybe , maybe Jamie nagle, you could not argue with the personelle, [i don't think jamie would get game time now], so we are really fit, have a few injuries [always coming back ], have found two new forwards in the two bennetts[i know one is injured, but is top drawer], Shane has a style that will frustrate and delight , mostly delight , so we are going in the right direction Derek has bought himself some serious time now as he looks to be in control, could not say that last year, but am beginning to see it, C'mon Waterford, We have what we have and its furthur along than i thought, i think if we get a run, we could do ok.