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Another attack on free speech by Islamic fundamentalists.

Its becoming clear that unless the Islamic community themselves take stronger action against the extremists the Islamic community at large will become more and more marginalised.

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The_Valeyard

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You'd need to edit Iran out of that, Jews are well respected and even have a reserved seat in parliament.

There was a memorial to Iranian Jewish soldiers killed in action unveiled recently.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/12/18/iran-unveils-a-memorial-honoring-jewish-heroes/

Iran is a bizzare one alright, number of seats in parliament are reserved for Jews and Christians, while they make speeches about wiping out Israel.

Bob24

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You'd need to edit Iran out of that, Jews are well respected and even have a reserved seat in parliament.

There was a memorial to Iranian Jewish soldiers killed in action unveiled recently.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/12/18/iran-unveils-a-memorial-honoring-jewish-heroes/

Probably like everyone here I am not expert and you can always find sources saying one thing or another, but having a quick look at Wikipedia it doesn't seem to be heaven on earth either:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Iran#Other_religions

"On the other hand, senior government posts are reserved for Muslims. All minority religious groups, including Sunni Muslims, are barred from being elected president. Jewish, Christian and Zoroastrian schools must be run by Muslim principals. Compensation for death paid to the family of a non-Muslim was (by law) less than if the victim was a Muslim until recently. Conversion to Islam is encouraged by entitling converts to inherit the entire share of their parents' (or even uncle's) estate if their siblings (or cousins) remain non-Muslim. Iran's non-Muslim population has fallen dramatically. For example, the Jewish population in Iran dropped from 80,000 to 30,000 in the first two decades of the revolution. By 2012, it had dwindled below 9,000."

If these numbers are correct, there won't be many Iranian Jews left to talk about in a generation or 2.

Egginacup

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Just more evidence of the incompatibility of enlightened society and the dogma preached by dark-age religions.

All religions are actually pre-Dark-Ages.

DeadHand

The Backwards Man wrote: »

You'd need to edit Iran out of that, Jews are well respected and even have a reserved seat in parliament.

There was a memorial to Iranian Jewish soldiers killed in action unveiled recently.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/12/18/iran-unveils-a-memorial-honoring-jewish-heroes/

Stunning naivety.

If we can't trust the government of Iran who can we trust, eh?

You'e just regurgitating propaganda and public relations spin.

The Jewish population of Iran has dropped from around 35,000 to around 8,000 in the last decade. This tells the true story.

Snake Plisken

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Don't keep not digging surely? ;-)

Hmmm Dan Solo seems to make very similar posts to Timbrr are they the same person?

Egginacup

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

So the americans forced these guys to attack the debate in Denmark did they?

Oh boy.

alwald

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The difference is that Europe had left anti-Semitism behind after the horrors of the holocaust were revealed to the world, whereas it continued in the Middle East and has started increasing again in the last few years after muslim immigration started reaching critical mass levels.

Does it even exist in the middle east?

The Backwards Man

DeadHand wrote: »

Stunning naivety.

If we can't trust the government of Iran who can we trust, eh?

You'e just regurgitating propaganda and public relations spin.

The Jewish population of Iran has dropped from around 35,000 to around 8,000 in the last decade. This tells the true story.

I just let an Iranian Jew I was sitting next to on a plane tell me his story, no spin involved here at all.:)

Eugene Norman

alwald wrote: »

Is it just me or there is a lot of generalisation and hurried conclusions here? All of a sudden there are experts that trow a lot of nonsense in this forum.....and why Jews are attacked knowing that Jews lived for centuries in the Arab world (and still do) without any issues?

That's so untrue its a joke.

Zack Morris

Egginacup wrote: »

All religions are actually pre-Dark-Ages.

Scientology.

Dan_Solo

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Iran is a bizzare one alright, number of seats in parliament are reserved for Jews and Christians, while they make speeches about wiping out Israel.

If you know the difference between race, religion and politics it isn't that bizarre.

alwald

DeadHand wrote: »

You'd happily live as a Jew in Iran? In Iraq? Syria? Egypt?

I am still waiting for an evidence about Jews being persecuted in the Arab/Muslim world.

There are many Jews in both Egypt and Iran....Iraq and Syria are in a war/civil war and as such cannot be added, on top of that Syria's dictator Assad is the one who dislikes Israel/Jews not his people, again you are making comments without any knowledge....

Eugene Norman

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I just let an Iranian Jew I was sitting next to on a plane tell me his story, no spin involved here at all.:)

Anecdotes are not statistics. The situation for jews and Christians and other minorities is pretty bad in Islamic countries. Iran isn't the worst though.

Eugene Norman

alwald wrote: »

I am still waiting for an evidence about Jews being persecuted in the Arab/Muslim world.

There are many Jews in both Egypt and Iran....Iraq and Syria are in a war/civil war and as such cannot be added, on top of that Syria's dictator Assad is the one who dislikes Israel/Jews not his people, again you are making comments without any knowledge....

I can't post links but you can easily Google this yourself. It's remarksble that the whole thing is not better known in fact.

By and large the jewish populations have collapsed across the Middle East and North Africa.

alwald

Eugene Norman wrote: »

I can't post links but you can easily Google this yourself. It's remarksble that the whole thing is not better known in fact.

By and large the jewish populations have collapsed across the Middle East and North Africa.

Is the collapse of the Jews population linked to hatred crimes, persecution, the desire to live in Israel or other factors? That's the real question....the same applies to posters who mention that Jews' population in Iran has decreased, this is a fact but what are the reasons? Some of the reasons are mentioned in the video I posted.

Egginacup

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Where we not on the stickler of that?

I don't see any revenge attacks against Ireland. But then again all it would take would be a staged episode to get non-free-thinkers like yourself frothing at the mouth and clamouring for us to join NATO and "solve" the problem by bombing more brown people.

Eugene Norman

alwald wrote: »

Is the collapse of the Jews population linked to hatred crimes, persecution, the desire to live in Israel or other factors? That's the real question....the same applies to posters who mention that Jews' population in Iran has decreased, this is a fact but what are the reasons? Some of the reasons are mentioned in the video I posted.

It's all of the above. You are, however, much too quick to shrug off the persecution angle.

Eugene Norman

Egginacup wrote: »

I don't see any revenge attacks against Ireland. But then again all it would take would be a staged episode to get non-free-thinkers like yourself frothing at the mouth and clamouring for us to join NATO and "solve" the problem by bombing more brown people.

That's quite a strawman.

DeadHand

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I just let an Iranian Jew I was sitting next to on a plane tell me his story, no spin involved here at all.:)

And some bloke in a pub told me that Brad Pitt isn't actually an actor but a truck driver and he was being harassed by UFOs in the hills around his home.

Fact is, the tokenism and facile gestures you mention are camouflage to hide from the rest world the widespread persecution of the Jews and other religious minorities in that theocracy.

How do you explain Iran's dramatically dwindling Jewish population?

Egginacup

Sociopath2 wrote: »

Straight in with defending Islam, no mention of condemning the attack or any concern or sympathy for the victims.

No surprise there.

You know all you do is make childish jibes and immature little throwaway comments like "no surprise there" or "resident terrorist supporters". That's the kind of piss-poor debating style reserved for Bush era knuckledraggers whose mantra was "you're either with us or you're with the terrists"

The attacks don't need to be condemned because that's irrelevant to the argument. I don't think there is a single person on here who is condoning them. What people are trying to do is understand WHY these attacks are happening but people like yourself don't want to engage in that discussion because it might involve some critical thinking on your part. It might compel you to revisit your own entrenched and short-sighted views.

Much easier to just be intransigent like some bigot and declare that nobody has legitimate grievances. They're just "bad-guys"

DeadHand

alwald wrote: »

I am still waiting for an evidence about Jews being persecuted in the Arab/Muslim world.

What exactly do you want?

Google "persecution of Jews" in almost any country in the Muslim world and you'll be confronted by walls of evidence.

And the Arab world and Muslim worlds are very different things. Iran isn't in the Arab world, for example.

alwald

Eugene Norman wrote: »

It's all of the above. You are, however, much too quick to shrug off the persecution angle.

Enlighten us with your analysis, add to it some reliable sources then we have a debate......but as of now you are adding nothing to this I am afraid.

alwald

DeadHand wrote: »

What exactly do you want?

Google "persecution of Jews" in almost any country in the Muslim world and you'll be confronted by walls of evidence.

And the Arab world and Muslim worlds are very different things. Iran isn't in the Arab world, for example.

Can you post any links?
I am well aware that Arab and Muslim are 2 different things hence the Muslim/Arab world.

Bob24

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I just let an Iranian Jew I was sitting next to on a plane tell me his story, no spin involved here at all.:)

I would still be cautious with this and try to find out a bit more bout his background.

I have met Tibetans in Ireland telling me that China is all great for Tibet, letting people keep their local culture while developing the region.

The men were academics and officials for a Tibetan cultural organisation fully funded by the Chinese central governement and all on the government's payroll - you could call that vested interest.

Now, while I have plenty of interest in this and relationships with the Chinese community here I have never met any Tibetans in Ireland who were just your regular person without some type of government connection. Is this a coincidence or could it it possibly be that only people carrying a certain message are allowed outside of Tibet?

The same question could well be relevant for Iranian Jews.

The Backwards Man

DeadHand wrote: »

And some bloke in a pub told me that Brad Pitt isn't actually an actor but a truck driver and he was being harassed by UFOs in the hills around his home.

Fact is, the tokenism and facile gestures you mention are camouflage to hide from the rest world the widespread persecution of the Jews and other religious minorities in that theocracy.

How do you explain Iran's dramatically dwindling Jewish population?

I can't explain it any more than you can. I don't know by how much it is declining any more than do you, all figures are estimates.

The fella on the plane claimed the actual population was higher than London, though I doubt it. Still, I'm not as blinded by sectarianism and bigotry as some not to take his story at face value.

Eugene Norman

Egginacup wrote: »

You know all you do is make childish jibes and immature little throwaway comments like "no surprise there" or "resident terrorist supporters". That's the kind of piss-poor debating style reserved for Bush era knuckledraggers whose mantra was "you're either with us or you're with the terrists"

The attacks don't need to be condemned because that's irrelevant to the argument. I don't think there is a single person on here who is condoning them. What people are trying to do is understand WHY these attacks are happening but people like yourself don't want to engage in that discussion because it might involve some critical thinking on your part. It might compel you to revisit your own entrenched and short-sighted views.

Much easier to just be intransigent like some bigot and declare that nobody has legitimate grievances. They're just "bad-guys"

Of course they are bad guys. I'm old enough to have heard this kind of equivocation for the IRA, in fact as an old school leftist I engaged in them myself. No more.

You keep engaging in your own bad arguments. People who don't want to understand killings of a comic are Bush supporters. Nope. I hate Bush.

However these guys are not attacking the neo-conservatives who started the war. They are not attacking in the country which started the war. They are not attacking the soldiers who fought the war, the journalists who egged on the war, the intellectuals who gave support to the war.

They are attacking in France, home of the despised ( by neo-cons) cheese eating surrender monkeys, and Denmark. They are attacking caricaturists of the prophet Mohammed because that's the nature of the religion, evidenced by Saudi Arabia's recent flogging sentence on the atheist journalist. They are attacking Jews for reasons of anti-semitism.

This is clear to all but the morally supine.

Eugene Norman

The Backwards Man wrote: »

I can't explain it any more than you can. I don't know by how much it is declining any more than do you, all figures are estimates.

The fella on the plane claimed the actual population was higher than London, though I doubt it. Still, I'm not as blinded by sectarianism and bigotry as some not to take his story at face value.

The stats are hardly in dispute. The population of jews has declined by 80%. You are also presuming the conclusion of "sectarianism and bigotry" in people who don't really take supposed meetings with fellas on buses all that seriously.

Look here's a made up story. I met a Palestinian Arab who told me that there was no discrimination of israeli Arabs or Palestinians in Israel. You can disagree with that but you're a bigot.

How do you like that "logic?"

The Backwards Man

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The stats are hardly in dispute. The population of jews has declined by 80%. You are also presuming the conclusion of "sectarianism and bigotry" in people who don't really take supposed meetings with fellas on buses all that seriously.

Look here's a made up story. I met a Palestinian Arab who told me that there was no discrimination of israeli Arabs or Palestinians in Israel. You can disagree with that but you're a bigot.

How do you like that "logic?"

Stick around a while, it will become evident to you what I am 'presuming' soon enough.

alwald

Eugene Norman wrote: »

That's so untrue its a joke.

A bizarre answer from somebody who likes "logic"

Egginacup

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Arguing against multiculturalism does not make one a proponent of monoculturalism.

I'm an advocate of interculturalism - the argument that says different cultures and ethnic groups are welcome in society, but only if they meld into the existing values that society has.

It's not a difficult position to adhere to.

So why aren't all the whites, hispanics, blacks and Asians in North America living in teepees then and paying homage to the eagle and buffalo gods