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language barrier

Robsweezie

is this an issue that has affected you often? are foreigners really that hard to understand? in scenarios like placing an order in fast food joint or restaurant or working alongside them, I sometimes have to ask them to repeat themselves but not often enough to become a full on problem . oftentimes words and sentences are just phrased in different ways by different nationalities, and to be fair they are nicest people, in my own experience. how about yours?

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cloudatlas

Somebody started a conversation in Irish with me the other day, didn't have a breeze.

kneemos

cloudatlas wrote: »

Somebody started a conversation in Irish with me the other day, didn't have a breeze.

Rather optimistic.

Timberrrrrrrr

Used to date a French girl years ago, met up with a few friends meeting her for the first time

Friends GF: (SHOUTING) SO.....HOW.....LONG......HAVE.....YOU......BEEN.....IN......IRELAND

GF:

ME (to friends GF) SHE'S.........FRENCH..........NOT.........STUPIIIIIIID

Slicemeister

FTA69 wrote: »

So you can arbitrarily demand that people speak a given language in a public place when they're minding their own business? By your logic I could stroll up to a French tourist couple in a pub in a Galway and start angrily demanding they speak English (or Irish if I was a really pedantic bastard.)

This "guest in my country" stuff has limits like, as if you need the permission of some sausage-seller to speak to your buddy just because you happen to be in Berlin or someplace. F*ck that.

We were standing in German overalls getting the grub and usually stopped in here on Fridays. He had every right to pull us up.

The tourist scenario you use is different and I agree, I wouldn't be pulling nobody up in that scenario. In a professional capacity everyone should be speaking the same language at all times.

FTA69

Slicemeister wrote: »

We were standing in German overalls getting the grub and usually stopped in here on Fridays. He had every right to pull us up.

The tourist scenario you use is different and I agree, I wouldn't be pulling nobody up in that scenario. In a professional capacity everyone should be speaking the same language at all times.

Professional capacity? Ye were standing at a sausage counter having a munch. Fair enough if ye went into a business meeting and started going off in English, or ye were talking in English across an office and were excluding others or making them uncomfortable. However, standing in a gaff and speaking to each other is an entirely different situation. I would have told him to shove his sausage up his hole.

Slicemeister

FTA69 wrote: »

Professional capacity? Ye were standing at a sausage counter having a munch. Fair enough if ye went into a business meeting and started going off in English, or ye were talking in English across an office and were excluding others or making them uncomfortable. However, standing in a gaff and speaking to each other is an entirely different situation. I would have told him to shove his sausage up his hole.

Nah, as an employee of a german company( with Siemens emblazoned all over our work gear), and a guest in his country in his chip shop, I wasn't gonna disrespect him or his wishes. Twas easier humour the guy, only years later did I appreciate he was right, especially when I see what happens in similar circumstances here in ireland at times.

The Corinthian

Slicemeister wrote: »

He wasn't an asshole at all. I was, I should've been using the Muttersprache in his home country in a public place.

Nonsense. For a start, the 'Muttersprache' for half of Germans isn't even Hochdeutsch, but a dialect - did you ask him whether he spoke Bavarian whenever he might pop down to that part of the country?

I would agree that if you live in a foreign country you learn the language and integrate. But to get pissed because two people are conducting a conversation amongst themselves in another language? Bizarre.

And as a rule, I find those who have an issue with language to such an extreme level as you've described tend to be Analphabeten who barely have a grasp of their own 'Muttersprache', let alone any other.

HalloweenJack

Quite often get people asking me to repeat things here when I'm saying stuff in Spanish. Funnily enough, I don't have that problem on the phone. I think there's a bit of prejudice involved. Some people, on seeing that they're dealing with a foreigner, slmost expect them to struggle and feel they have to tone it down or speak in an obnoxious and condescending basic manner.

I'm hard of hearing and I posted before about a waiter in Spain who started speaking slowly and loudly in crappy English because I asked him to repeat himself (in Spanish) when I didn't catch everything he mumbled. Another one I remember is being on the north of Spain on holidays. I live in the south and both parts have extremely different accents and vocab. In a bar, I asked for a maceta (literally a flowerpot but very common in the south for a 500ml glass) of beer. The barman, seeing that I was foreign, looked at me as if I was nuts and just shrugged. Now if my Spanish GF had asked, he probably would have asked her what she meant but me being foreign, I got the 'this guy hasn't a clue' treatment.

FTA69

I speak crap Spanish but at times they seem to be taking the absolute p*ss and seem to pretend they haven't an utter clue what you're on about. They seem very defensive of their particular brand of the language.

I was in one gaff and said "Hola, quiero una tasa de café por favour" (Hello, I'd like a cup of coffee please.)

Your one stared at me like I'd two heads and eventually went "Ohhhhh 'tatha' ". The fact I hadn't asked for it in that annoying lisp apparently meant I was talking utter gibberish; as if the fact I was asking for coffee in a coffee-shop didn't make it obvious enough what I was asking for. Similarly when speaking with my friends in London they're always moaning that my Spanish isn't "correct" when I used a Latin American word or form of address.

I can't stand snobbery and hierarchialism in language.

TheBeardedLady

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Quite often get people asking me to repeat things here when I'm saying stuff in Spanish. Funnily enough, I don't have that problem on the phone. I think there's a bit of prejudice involved. Some people, on seeing that they're dealing with a foreigner, slmost expect them to struggle and feel they have to tone it down or speak in an obnoxious and condescending basic manner.

I'm hard of hearing and I posted before about a waiter in Spain who started speaking slowly and loudly in crappy English because I asked him to repeat himself (in Spanish) when I didn't catch everything he mumbled. Another one I remember is being on the north of Spain on holidays. I live in the south and both parts have extremely different accents and vocab. In a bar, I asked for a maceta (literally a flowerpot but very common in the south for a 500ml glass) of beer. The barman, seeing that I was foreign, looked at me as if I was nuts and just shrugged. Now if my Spanish GF had asked, he probably would have asked her what she meant but me being foreign, I got the 'this guy hasn't a clue' treatment.

I understand your frustration (I live in Madrid) though I can see it from the Spaniards POV. Generally foreigners don't have any Spanish when they come here, so I think waiters etc. are ready to not understand you and pull "that" face in preparation. I think it's fair enough that they'd expect foreign-looking people to struggle. I suppose I'm lucky that people don't generally treat me in a condescending way when I do try to make myself understood but the odd person does, I'll admit.

I also think the Spanish are very insecure about their English level (or lack thereof) and are frustrated/embarrassed when dealing with foreigners and are ready for it to be an ordeal. I've translated millions of times between foreign customers and waiting staff here - did it yesterday at the train station, in fact.

But it's frustrating when you live in the country long-term as you go about your daily routine and I still have problems ordering my morning coffee a lot of the time (because I specify that I want it "En taza" as opposed to a glass) even though I know for a fact I'm saying it perfectly, which has been confirmed by my Spanish boyfriend and all my Spanish students. Same with ordering a glass of red Ribera Del Duero wine. My boyfriend often orders my food in restaurants to save me the hassle as I couldn't be arsed with it on a night out.

And I sometimes have "battles of languages" with waiting staff sometimes as they insist in talking to me in terrible English while I'm answering back in very decent Spanish - that's REALLY irritating - it's as if they don't want to believe I'm talking to them in their language or something.

I wouldn't see any malice in it though tbh most of time.

TheBeardedLady

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I was in one gaff and said "Hola, quiero una tasa de café por favour" (Hello, I'd like a cup of coffee please.)

See my post above! I had the same problem for months and months! Best way to say it is, "Queiro café con leche en taza (no una needed) and even without the "th" sound, they should get it. Tbh I don't understand how they wouldn't make an educated guess - what else could you be asking them for in a cafe ffs :rolleyes:).

Edit: It's true that some of them want to feel superior, perhaps because of their own lack of decent English but I think they genuinely don't understand most of time. I think as English speakers we're more used to people crucifying our language/different accents than they are as it's the global language.

_Kaiser_

42 posts and no link to the Pulp Fiction Samuel L Jackson "English mudddafukka" scene yet?

What happened to you AH, you used to be cool!

HalloweenJack

FTA69 wrote: »

I speak crap Spanish but at times they seem to be taking the absolute p*ss and seem to pretend they haven't an utter clue what you're on about. They seem very defensive of their particular brand of the language.

I love this attitude because in the south of Spain, they have a really strong accent which drops s' and d's and doesn't use the th sound for c or z, yet they find it hilarious if you copy the way the locals speak and don't use the Spanish equivalent of RP.

It's even funnier that they get so snotty about accents down here because, within Spain, they get the piss ripped out of them for the way they speak. You'd think they'd understand that people have different accents and it's about actually saying the correct words as opposed to the "correct" pronunciation. But unfortunately the irony is lost on them.

FTA69

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

But it's frustrating when you live in the country long-term as you go about your daily routine and I still have problems ordering my morning coffee a lot of the time (because I specify that I want it "En taza" as opposed to a glass) even though I know for a fact I'm saying it perfectly

I'm glad I'm not the only one who suffers from the cup fiasco over there anyway.

Personally speaking, some of the biggest language battles I've had have been with nominal English speakers. There's a fella I know from Glasgow who after five or so pints you'd be literally able to understand about one word in three. Jamaicans are next to near impossible to get as well when they're in full flow unless you're a prolific reggae fan.

When I came to London initially, lots of people hadn't a Scooby doo what I was saying.

HalloweenJack

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

And I sometimes have "battles of languages" with waiting staff sometimes as they insist in talking to me in terrible English while I'm answering back in very decent Spanish - that's REALLY irritating - it's as if they don't want to believe I'm talking to them in their language or something.

This, times a million.

Without trying to sound too full of myself, I know I have a very high level of Spanish and I know that I speak better Spanish than the English most of the people I meet here speak. I'm not a dick. If I meet someone who can express themselves clearly in English, I will engage them in English. But if I meet someone who can't string two sentences together or I don't really know what they're trying to say, I will immediately switch to Spanish because it's going to save a lot of time and misunderstanding. You'd think they'd appreciate that a foreigner has made the effort to learn their local language and try to integrate but a lot of the time it's met with people taking offence and getting uppity.

TheBeardedLady

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I love this attitude because in the south of Spain, they have a really strong accent which drops s' and d's and doesn't use the th sound for c or z, yet they find it hilarious if you copy the way the locals speak and don't use the Spanish equivalent of RP.

It's even funnier that they get so snotty about accents down here because, within Spain, they get the piss ripped out of them for the way they speak. You'd think they'd understand that people have different accents and it's about actually saying the correct words as opposed to the "correct" pronunciation. But unfortunately the irony is lost on them.

I often ask people here how they'd feel if I started talking in an Argentinian accent because I actually learned my basics there when I spent a year in South America. I prefer a lot of the vocab they use and like the Argentinian "Shh" sound in "llamo" or "Calle", for example and they scoffed. I then ask them how it in every different to them speaking with American accents and vocab if that's what THEY learned. That generally leaves them stumped. Fair bit of snobbery towards South American accents and tbh, I love to rub it in that I prefer them to wind them up. It's also known by linguists that the best Castellano in terms of rich vocab, correct grammar usage and accent etc. is spoken in Colombia, which I like to remind them now and then when I'm feeling evil.

FTA69

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I often ask people here how they'd feel if I started talking in an Argentinian accent because I actually learned my basics there when I spent a year in South America. I prefer a lot of the vocab they use and like the Argentinian "Shh" sound in "llamo" or "Calle", for example and they scoffed. I then ask them how it in every different to them speaking with American accents and vocab if that's what THEY learned. That generally leaves them stumped. Fair bit of snobbery towards South American accents and tbh, I love to rub it in that I prefer them to wind them up. It's also known by linguists that the best Castellano in terms of rich vocab, correct grammar usage and accent etc. is spoken in Colombia, which I like to remind them now and then when I'm feeling evil.

I was asking this Aer Europa hostess for "jugo de naranja" as well from the drinks trolley, pure and utter confusion like, presumably I should have said "zumo" or something. What the f*ck else would I be asking for from a drinks trolley which contained only juice and f*cking water?

I get a similar reaction for using "ustedes" instead of the "vos" form. It's the same ignorant attitude as someone in England laughing at the Irish accent. People have spoken Spanish in Latin America for 550 odd years, it's as legitimate as any other way of speaking it.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I often ask people here how they'd feel if I started talking in an Argentinian accent because I actually learned my basics there when I spent a year in South America. I prefer a lot of the vocab they use and like the Argentinian "Shh" sound in "llamo" or "Calle", for example and they scoffed. I then ask them how it in every different to them speaking with American accents and vocab if that's what THEY learned. That generally leaves them stumped. Fair bit of snobbery towards South American accents and tbh, I love to rub it in that I prefer them to wind them up. It's also known by linguists that the best Castellano in terms of rich vocab, correct grammar usage and accent etc. is spoken in Colombia, which I like to remind them now and then when I'm feeling evil.

The Bogota accent is very neutral and easy to understand. Some areas of Colombia have difficult accents and lots of slang however, particularly the coastal cities.

One feature of Colombian accents which I don't believe is found elsewhere, is pronouncing the ll as a j- calle is kah-jay, rather than kah-yay. Even the supposedly accentless rolos do it.

Calibos

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

What made you think she spoke Mandarin?

Because I heard her speaking and Mandarin sounds completely different to Cantonese????????

SMJSF

yes, I find it very hard.... I'm currently doing a course true the welfare, and the teacher is Russian... with awful English skills.
try learning CAD commands and terms when you can understand only every 10th word!!

4zn76tysfajdxp

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

(I live in Madrid)

Woah, what?

The Cool

I'm from Donegal, I have a language barrier with most people.

Joe prim

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'd have responded with "Und wenn ich möchte mit Ihnen zu sprechen, werde ich Deutsch sprechen".

He would be right were you expecting Germans to speak with you in English, but you weren't - you were speaking to a fellow Anglophone. This chap was clearly a bit of an Arschloch.

The irony is that in his Imbiss, he was almost certainly serving such traditional Germanic delights as Doner and Currywurst.

It is unwise to wind up angry Germans, they might macht mit der scheisse in your kurrywurst und kartoffel, or even shoot a few hostages, if you seem to be resisting, which is futile where Germans are concerned. ( Or am I thinking of Daleks?)

djflawless

Robsweezie wrote: »

is this an issue that has affected you often? are foreigners really that hard to understand? in scenarios like placing an order in fast food joint or restaurant or working alongside them, I sometimes have to ask them to repeat themselves but not often enough to become a full on problem . oftentimes words and sentences are just phrased in different ways by different nationalities, and to be fair they are nicest people, in my own experience. how about yours?

Few lads in work think I'm half deaf from all the "whaaah?" I give them. The fact that I talk with a Bull Mc Cable accent doesn't help when I talk to them either

The J Stands for Jay

The Cool wrote: »

I'm from Donegal, I have a language barrier with most people.

I'm from Donegal and I've had to act as translator between a Kerry lad and a Derry lad in Barcelona.

TheBeardedLady

Anabelle Tart Voyage wrote: »

Woah, what?

Yes, yes, Anabelle Tart Voyage, it's true. Been here for a while now. Living (and loving!) in Madrid. In Spain. It's the capital. Of Spain. Where I live.

4zn76tysfajdxp

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Yes, yes, Frada, it's true. Been here for a while now. Living (and loving!) in Madrid. In Spain. It's the capital. Of Spain. Where I live.

Mein gott. And you think you know somebody.

TheBeardedLady

Joe prim wrote: »

It is unwise to wind up angry Germans, they might macht mit der scheisse in your kurrywurst und kartoffel, or even shoot a few hostages, if you seem to be resisting, which is futile where Germans are concerned. ( Or am I thinking of Daleks?)

Does that mean "put their poo in your awful Curry and do a cartwheel"? The fcuking bastards if so. A cartwheel.of all things! Animals!

[Deleted User]

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I prefer a lot of the vocab they use and like the Argentinian "Shh" sound in "llamo" or "Calle",

the what

With the germans it depends where
berlin - you can't get a word out and they're speaking english
hannover/frankfurt - german if you initiate it unless you get to a point of really struggling and want to switch

LucidLife

The Cool wrote: »

I'm from Donegal, I have a language barrier with most people.

Same thing when you hail from Kerry. As I say when in other countries, where I am a foreigner, I'm often asked what language is that and have been penalized because of it.