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Child Item

British dad smacks perv; perv dies

Roger Hassenforder

Don't know how I'd react to finding pictures of my kids on a strangers ipad.
A beatdown would certainly be considered. This perv died as a result of one.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11401310/British-man-arrested-in-Spain-for-killing-paedophile-he-caught-filming-his-daughter.html

Deserved?
I'm not too upset by it TBH

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Fratton Fred

liam24 wrote: »

But the argument that 'it's an expected human response under the circumstances' cannot and must not be used as an extenuating factor, any more than a wife who murders her husband for cheating on her should be in any way excused. You can't go around killing people.

I'm guessing you don't have a young daughter. You would see this very differently if you did.

Yeah, I'd lash out at the guy, but that's nothing compared to what my wife would do, she'd go full blown psycho on him.

Egginacup

jamesbere wrote: »

Any father would of done what that man did, it was just unfortunate that the man died. He'll see jail time for it alright but any judge and jury should see common sense here and give a mild sentence. It must be very hard for the daughter

Excuse me but the length of sentence for murder is not contingent on the character of the victim. I heard the same disgusting talk when that Chinese guy killed the "skanger" outside his internet shop by kicking him to death for allegedly not paying for a phone call.

Ok course there'll be the usual chorus of shit from the knuckledraggers saying I'm defending a paedo or that I favour hugs for all skangers just because I'm not dancing with joy that they have been killed.
The guy, it seems, was a paedophile or at least had indecent images on his ipad... which is creepy and illegal. The other guy, however, murdered him and also must pay for his crime.

suicide_circus

Egginacup wrote: »

Excuse me but the length of sentence for murder is not contingent on the character of the victim. I heard the same disgusting talk when that Chinese guy killed the "skanger" outside his internet shop by kicking him to death for allegedly not paying for a phone call.

Ok course there'll be the usual chorus of shit from the knuckledraggers saying I'm defending a paedo or that I favour hugs for all skangers just because I'm not dancing with joy that they have been killed.
The guy, it seems, was a paedophile or at least had indecent images on his ipad... which is creepy and illegal. The other guy, however, murdered him and also must pay for his crime.

Who is "dancing" for joy? Murder? I didn't realise a trial and verdict had taken place?

FTA69

Egginacup wrote: »

Excuse me but the length of sentence for murder is not contingent on the character of the victim. I heard the same disgusting talk when that Chinese guy killed the "skanger" outside his internet shop by kicking him to death for allegedly not paying for a phone call.

Ok course there'll be the usual chorus of shit from the knuckledraggers saying I'm defending a paedo or that I favour hugs for all skangers just because I'm not dancing with joy that they have been killed.
The guy, it seems, was a paedophile or at least had indecent images on his ipad... which is creepy and illegal. The other guy, however, murdered him and also must pay for his crime.

For the umpteenth time it wasn't murder. Murder is a specific definition, not something to throw around arbitrarily.

Egginacup

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

According to reports he was not 'beaten to death' at all. It was one unfortunately ill placed, well earned punch which went horribly wrong.

Being beaten to death can be accomplished with multiple blows until the victim is dead or just one.

aaronjumper

I was under the impression that murder is premeditated.

Egginacup

jmayo wrote: »

One of the guys that was in the gang that beat up and killed British tourist in Spanish village a few years ago got three years for manslaughter.

Ehh the polite way of asking if he was a bit of a **acker or one of the lower classes. :rolleyes:

It wasn't murder and it wasn't some continous beatening as you are hinting.
He was punched once and he died.

Of course we all know how amazing it is that some are only to glad to defend even sc**bags.

I don't think anyone is defending scumbags. There are two trains of thought here:

1. Those who think it's ok to kill people who are deemed undesirables

2. Those who think it's not ok.

Magico Gonzalez

Clearly not murder, but manslaughter doesn't sounds as good when you're being contrary online.

No doubt when a paedo photographs their child and harasses them they'll turn the other cheek and allow it to continue.

I really hope the guys gets a suspended sentence, the provocation was extreme and his daughter certainly will not benefit from his absence.

runawaybishop

Egginacup wrote: »

Being beaten to death can be accomplished with multiple blows until the victim is dead or just one.

No, it cannot. Nor is it murder unless it is shown his intent was to kill.

Tugboats

Egginacup wrote: »

People are way too quick to take the law into their own hands and others are way too quick to gleefully cheer them on.

Egg when a women let's(highly unlikely) you ejaculate in her vagina and conceives please come back and post

Magico Gonzalez

Egginacup wrote: »

I don't think anyone is defending scumbags. There are two trains of thought here:

1. Those who think it's ok to kill people who are deemed undesirables

2. Those who think it's not ok.

Rubbish.

How hard is the concept of manslaughter for you to understand? It.was.not.murder.

He punched him, once. Intent on stopping a peadophile from taking photos from his daughter.

It is not, in your childishly simple example, "ok to kill" the paedophile, it is however not rational to charge the guy with murder, as it was not premeditated. A manslaughter charge with a large portion given as a suspended sentence should be the correct outcome.

Is the guy likely to be provoked by another paedo harassing his children? I doubt it.

What value does a custodial sentence serve? None. Does it benefit the daughter? No.

Only a contrary fool would deny that it's understandable a father could lose his temper and strike out whilst his children are being harassed by a paedophile. It's not a zero sum, thankfully the allow affords for more judgements than your limited, contrary, binary assessment.

Magico Gonzalez

ps...beaten to death, fortunately is not going to form part of the coroners report. It's a tabloid term for those with tabloid perspective.

suicide_circus

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

it's a tabloid term for those with tabloid perspective.

Meeeeow!

ShowMeTheCash

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Clearly not murder, but manslaughter doesn't sounds as good when you're being contrary online.

No doubt when a paedo photographs their child and harasses them they'll turn the other cheek and allow it to continue.

I really hope the guys gets a suspended sentence, the provocation was extreme and his daughter certainly will not benefit from his absence.

Why?

Let's take the paedo out of the equation, guy was being creepy taking photos.
You have an issue you call the police, or you go decided to hit the guy a smack.

You hit someone a smack you need to live with the consequences, the guy died, maybe not intended but he is responsible now for murder!

Your bias is based on we now know this guy to be a paedo so you think "ah well he deserved it"...

aaronjumper

The people posting "murder" need to buy a dictionary.

Irelandcool

Why was this guy released so soon he already proven he has indecent pictures of children before even getting killed at that arrested.
The police knew he had a history of pedophilia before hand.

Dunford

From what I read in the Spanish press he was recording her, not just taking pictures. Got what he deserved. Feel bad for the dad.

Tugboats

This Brit gets arrested while Gerry Mccann gets a world tour and book deal...

[Deleted User]

I understand the fathers actions, but not condone them. Ideally he would have called the police, but people have a habit of doing what feels right at the time. It usually works out, and this dad was unlucky on several counts, as was the perv.

I think saying the daughter would have been less traumatised by being raped than she is by seeing her dad punch someone is utterly ridiculous and seriously diminishing.

He clearly didn't intend to kill the guy, and pretending it's exactly the same as kicking someone to death or repeatedly battering them with his fists while his daughter watches is disingenuous in the extreme. All assuming the guy was in fact doing anything wrong.

That said, if I'd a kid and found a stash of photos of them on a strangers iPad, with all the risk of them winding up online or altered, I'd probably put the guy through a window.

One eyed Jack

The article is very confusing. It reports that the man was arrested on suspicion of murder, but then gives an account that sounds more like the man should have been arrested on suspicion of manslaughter? I mean, the only explanation I can think of for that is if the man had already threatened the victim with murder for taking pictures of his family or his daughter? That would be premeditated right there (now whether he meant it or not is another thing entirely!).

I know I'd have asked the guy taking photos to stop first, then I'd have complained to a waitress as someone else said earlier. I'd have taken my child and left the restaurant if he wasn't asked to leave. It'd take a lot for me to approach the guy, but if I had seen images of child abuse on the pad, I really couldn't say whether I'd be able to show the restraint that would be expected of me as an adult.

There's obviously more to the story, but just going on that one newspaper report alone, I would say it's very unfortunate for the man and his family that the other man died, as I'm fairly certain that wasn't his actual intention (but then that assumes he wasn't trained and capable of delivering a strike that he knew would kill!).

liam24

Candie wrote: »

I understand the fathers actions, but not condone them. Ideally he would have called the police, but people have a habit of doing what feels right at the time. It usually works out, and this dad was unlucky on several counts, as was the perv.

I think saying the daughter would have been less traumatised by being raped than she is by seeing her dad punch someone is utterly ridiculous and seriously diminishing.

He clearly didn't intend to kill the guy, and pretending it's exactly the same as kicking someone to death or repeatedly battering them with his fists while his daughter watches is disingenuous in the extreme. All assuming the guy was in fact doing anything wrong.

That said, if I'd a kid and found a stash of photos of them on a strangers iPad, with all the risk of them winding up online or altered, I'd probably put the guy through a window.

Savage.

The irony here is that likely one in ten of the parents protesting so vociferously against this are raping their own children. And as we know with homophobia, it's the guilty ones who are likely to be the most aggressive in their condemnation.

anncoates

If it's true that he repeatedly asked the guy to stop recording and the guy refused, it must count as intolerable provocation. Plus when the previous charge is taken into account...

Let's just say I couldn't convict the father if I was on the jury.

aaronjumper

liam24 wrote: »

Savage.

The irony here is that likely one in ten of the parents protesting so vociferously against this are raping their own children. And as we know with homophobia, it's the guilty ones who are likely to be the most aggressive in their condemnation.

Now that's pretty funny.

enda1

Purely based on what's written in the linked article in the OP:

-There is no mention that the dead man was a paedophile, so why do people keep saying it?
-The accused wasn't mentioned to have asked the dead man to stop recording his daughter.
-There is nothing illegal about filming/photographing people out in public even on private property unless expressly forbidden.

anncoates

liam24 wrote: »

Savage.

The irony here is that likely one in ten of the parents protesting so vociferously against this are raping their own children. And as we know with homophobia, it's the guilty ones who are likely to be the most aggressive in their condemnation.

You're a little demented, aren't you.

[Deleted User]

liam24 wrote: »

Savage.

The irony here is that likely one in ten of the parents protesting so vociferously against this are raping their own children. And as we know with homophobia, it's the guilty ones who are likely to be the most aggressive in their condemnation.

Yes pet. I'm 4ft 11 inches of pure murderous rage. And I'm not even a parent!

Time for your meds.

humanji

liam24 wrote: »

Savage.

The irony here is that likely one in ten of the parents protesting so vociferously against this are raping their own children. And as we know with homophobia, it's the guilty ones who are likely to be the most aggressive in their condemnation.

MOD: Don't post in the thread again.

Egginacup

suicide_circus wrote: »

Who is "dancing" for joy? Murder? I didn't realise a trial and verdict had taken place?

esese

Well there people on here who are saying he deserves a medal. To me that equates to celebrating the killing.

Ray Palmer

Larbre34 wrote: »

Unfortunately this guy is bang to rights for Manslaughter. The offenders previous history has no bearing on the prosecution. Hopefully a Spanish jury will just refuse to convict.

Let's look at that logically. A man punches somebody for doing something they don't like and it results in death. You think a jury would say sure I have no problem with that?

The father had no idea about the german's past so they won't be allowed that as evidence, rightly so.

Unless the photo's were very noticeably perverse which I assume is going to be particularly unlikely as they were in a restaurant at the time, it is highly unreasonable behavior.

Some things are just so idiotic, you don't attack people when you are angry because it can cause serious and fatal injuries. If you are an adult you understand this if not you are a child no matter how long you have lived

Egginacup

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Rubbish.

How hard is the concept of manslaughter for you to understand? It.was.not.murder.

He punched him, once. Intent on stopping a peadophile from taking photos from his daughter.

It is not, in your childishly simple example, "ok to kill" the paedophile, it is however not rational to charge the guy with murder, as it was not premeditated. A manslaughter charge with a large portion given as a suspended sentence should be the correct outcome.

Is the guy likely to be provoked by another paedo harassing his children? I doubt it.

What value does a custodial sentence serve? None. Does it benefit the daughter? No.

Only a contrary fool would deny that it's understandable a father could lose his temper and strike out whilst his children are being harassed by a paedophile. It's not a zero sum, thankfully the allow affords for more judgements than your limited, contrary, binary assessment.

Lighten the fcuk would you. I've already manned up and retracted my mistake about murder which is more than a lot on here can do. What do you want, blood?