seavill wrote: » How can the union leadership put pressure on managment as a matter of interest? Principals & DPs have a job to do, which includes doing what they are told by their bosses (the Government/Department) which includes running CP hours in a way that they were told to do. I don't see how bullying P & DPs into doing what you want them to do helps in any way. Yes some are more lenient than others but they still have to follow orders that is their job. We are signed up to CP/HRA which means we have to follow the rules (even if they Department don't) we can't sign up to an agreement and then pick and choose what we want to do and what we don't. Really don't see where youa re going with this one apart from trying to say something to win over a few votes
endakenny wrote: » Chilli Con Kearney explained that the JMB pushed for the format of the CP hours as it was in 2009 (a small amount of flexibility was granted thanks to lobbying by the TUI). Principals and deputy principals are superior to staff but they are subordinate to union leadership if they are union members, i.e. obedience of union directives. Surely, they don't want to be perceived as being disloyal to staff. By the way, how is the Dept not following the rules? As for trying to "win votes", you don't think I'm the real Enda Kenny. Do you?
seavill wrote: » No I don't I just meant you are trying something new of saying something populist instead of just winding people up constantly. The management are "subordinate" to their superiors in the Department. The union signed up to CP/HRA so have to follow it, no one said there is no wiggle room in the hours there is a small amount. You still didn't answer how can the union put pressure on the members of management who have to do their job and follow the CP/HRA that the unions agreed to, which they are currently doing. Just because teachers are not happy about doing the hours doesn't mean management are doing anything wrong. What do you want the unions to put pressure on management to do exactly?
endakenny wrote: » OK, I'm sorry. You said that the Dept isn't following the rules. How? There's no indication that the Dept won't pay the increments before HRA runs out.
seavill wrote: » I have asked you two questions, twice now, which you have yet to answer. You have made statements and you won't clarify them, Please respond to the questions I asked you rather than trying to throw the conversation by asking me questions To answer your questions, the Department failed to pay increments on time. A 3 month delay is now a 6 month delay. They have broken their side of the agreement. They had over a years notice to get their computer systems in order which they failed to do yet they manage to take out strike day pay immediately. So hopefully that answers your question. It is not up to them to pay it whenver they want "before HRA runs out" they set up an agreement and broke it. I'm sure I would get on well with my bank if I didn't pay my mortgage but told the bank "ah sure I'll pay it before our agreement runs out in 30 years" Now answer the questions yourself
endakenny wrote: » The method of paying increments might not necessarily be the same as the docking of pay for strike days. In fairness, I don't think that Jan O'Sullivan is a dishonest person.
seavill wrote: » Talking about the reasons for the strike and the actions of those people involved is on track with this thread I'm afraid
seavill wrote: » Fair play for answering the questions I put to you. I never claimed She was a dishonest person. It may be a different method but they had over a year to sort it out and they failed hence breaking their side of the agreement, answering your question again
Inspector Coptoor wrote: » So implementing a long term increment to staff can be delayed for months on end, while a one day strike reduction can be applied to the SAME system at will? GTFO here with that dung
endakenny wrote: » The Dept would be guilty of breaching HRA only if the delay was intentional. After all, in most criminal cases, intent has to be proved. The same logic applies here. Fixing computer systems might be more complicated than you think. Take the Royal Bank of Scotland software fiasco for instance. Fixing the system in a government department may be even more complicated than that.
rainbowtrout wrote: » I doubt it. I got my increment. I work for an ETB. They missed mine, but other staff in my school got theirs so I emailed them and they updated it. I'd imagine that if it's software is the problem then I can't imagine the code is that complicated. Increments are calculated on a 12 month basis. So current coding for the system could look like this: If (LastIncrementDate > 365) { Increment++; } Teacher gets increment if their last increment date was more than 365 days ago. That could be tweaked to allow for another 90 days or to calculate 3 months after their due date. Either way, it shouldn't take 15 months to sort out what is probably a few lines of code. Everyone is being processed on the same payroll system.
Benicetomonty wrote: » Joint statement from asti and tui.http://www.tui.ie/press-releases/joint-tuiasti-statement-re-junior-cycle-talks.6721.html Whatever that means.
Boober Fraggle wrote: » I had to read that six times just to be sure I couldn't understand it. So, the terms of reference for talks will change... And Pauric travers may come up with some options having listened to both sides, these options will be discussed, but a decision will most likely go to a vote??
gaiscioch wrote: » I'm watching my union closely in this. I'm utterly enervated from sitting around talking unadulterated raiméis and attending stifling in-services ad nauseam - our latest being the third one on child protection. Nothing new - just box-ticking posterior-covering by pen pushers in the Department of Education. It bears zero - and I mean zero - connection to anything remotely connected with inspiring, encouraging or enlightening kids. In sharp contrast, there are kids who need extra help because where it really matters - funding effective classrooms - the same pen pushers refuse to give so many kids a chance by continuing to insist that 25-30 kids with a ridiculously broad range of aptitudes are put in a single class to be "taught". The Irish Department of Education could make real changes but instead their "reforms" amount to the likes of this patronising, increasingly offensive superficial and futile "Croke Park hours". It's a sham. We are only forced to do these because they want to break our spirit and ultimately get us used to working more for less money. They are trying to break the culture of teaching and they are testing the water with these pointless Croke Park hours, hoping we'll get so sick of them that we'll be willing to do something more productive with the same hours. "We give in. You've bored us to death with those 33 hours. We are now willing to spend 33 hours extra per year teaching students/running sports teams/drama clubs etc for no pay." Oh, and we'll correct our students' major exams and we'll continue to allow you to make teaching into the form-filling mind-numbing, posterior-covering, spiritless bureaucracy that it is in England. Because all you lamentable grade A clowns in the Irish Department of Education and the army of fonctionnaires you have checking on us have to be seen to be doing something - or rather be seen to be making us do something, anything - anything at all. It's all about appearances and spin in the media to bully Irish teachers into becoming overworked, perennially exhausted, vapid clockwatchers far removed from the great tradition of Irish teaching, a profession which has given more than any other to drag us up from the nadir of our history since the 17th century. That's a noble tradition worth defending against all comers. Yes, it is painful getting that €124 strike pay docked from my salary yesterday for the second time in a month. Money, however, comes and goes. But I'll be damned if I partake in making the Irish teaching profession the yellow pack, transient one that exists in England full of exhausted, demoralised whipping boys for some Tory upperclass who in a heartbeat will lower taxes for ultra-rich financiers. I've reflected on where things are going for teachers and if I need to go on 10 more of those strike days in order to avoid working conditions I have settled my mind that I will do precisely that. I hope I am not alone. It's about €1000 to me after tax. That sum approximates to about 40 classes with my most dysfunctional, energy-draining class. That's an awful lot of pain I have to go through to get that money. However, like every other teacher I can find a cheaper, last minute holiday or save that money some other way. If all Irish teachers think about the bigger picture here, our profession will be safe. Once those conditions are gone, your career as you've known it is gone. Be smart/Don't be a myopic idiot.
Marshall Some Second wrote: » I think the union's concessions and backtracking will certainly make this whole strike effort seem pointless but you may be in the wrong thread?
Dr Crippen wrote: » Thats fairly amateur trolling
Inspector Coptoor wrote: » # lol Would you ever just jog on?
katydid wrote: » A start would be to allow meetings at times when it suits the staff, not necessarily at the end of a long day unless there is no alternative. If they are not whole school meetings, and the people involved are free at other times; if they all have a free class at the same time, or want to meet at lunchtime, that should be allowed. And the time should be more flexibly used for CPD, assisting students, helping with extra-curricular activities or whatever, not for makey uppey meetings which are just held for the sake of it.
